Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

You're answering it better than me.

I'm sorry but I don't see how Harry Potter could be excluded.

But wasn't that just a kid or midget in a suit and not so much animated. When it was just the doll, then that'd be pushing it and a wildcard would be valid.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

This is a perfect example of where we disagree. I don't see how it could be included. How is Harry Potter any different than, say, Cast Away as far as what was added in CGI to make the movie what it is? Most every scene on the island or on water in Cast Away was modified with CGI. The movie would have been ridiculous without it, but it doesn't belong in this challenge.

Regardless of whether it was a magical spell (Harry Potter) or the raft sail (Cast Away) added in CGI, they both would make those scenes a bit silly without them, but doesn't mean it deserves to be counted.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I'm something of an animation purist. If I was in charge of making the rules, I'd exclude any film from this challenge in which the main characters were live-action. I'd make exceptions for things like WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT and COOL WORLD, where the live-action characters interact with animated characters for the bulk of the running time, or THE INCREDIBLE MR. LIMPET, where the main character becomes an animated character for most of the film. I'd even make an exception for SONG OF THE SOUTH, for the simple reason that it's considered a classic Disney animated film, even though the live-action scenes greatly outnumber the animated ones. But live-action movies where the characters are surrounded by special effects? I don't care how the special effects are done, those films are simply not considered animated films. Not even my Harryhausen favorites.

But, alas, I'm not making the rules. Just throwing my two cents in, for what it's worth (2 cents?).

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I'd argue that Cast Away still would've been a desert island and ocean movie that only would've had a different landscape without the CGI. I'll also say I'm not even 100% sure of all the CGI use for that, so I'm not surprised if I'm completely wrong.

I'd count Potter not just because of the spells but the monsters he fights/rides/is friends with. That's the main reason I'd count it.

I agree with you on 300. Just a background isn't enough for me to count it when compared to other things out there, which is the main I determine, for myself, if something is valid or not. If I'm questioning something to myself, most of the time I'll just skip it and watch something else that I know will count.

Spider-Man, without animation, at best you'd have the 70s TV show. Animation makes those 3 movies and without it, it couldn't be done.

In the end, it's more up to what each person wants to set as a limit to how much animation needs to be in something for them and also how it's used. I'd rather do the challenge more broad in terms of what's allowed and having people ask for the real borderline things, or at least what they'd consider to be borderline.

But it's great discussion either way and since it's the first year of it, there's no reason not to change things around for next year depending on how things go.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I completely agree with this.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

This is exactly what I like (assuming my plan works of course ;) ). In a way, this challenge is broad enough that people can do their own sort of make your own challenge and do all sorts of different variations while still falling under the animation group.

Worst case is it ends up a disaster and I turn it into something more strictly animation. My plan in the beginning was to do a strict animation challenge but at the same time, figure out some way to shoehorn in things like puppetry animation and be able to include something like Puppet Master. That's what I want to narrow it down to but then it would also include other forms of animation that I necessary wouldn't count but in the grand scheme of things could be argued as counting.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I knew there would be differences of opinion on allowing the CGI-type stuff.

On one hand, it seems crazy that Star Wars and 300 and such would even be remotely considered to be appropriate for an Animation Challenge. Much of what seems to qualify in this "outlier" categories are perfect for the other Challenges, as much of it seems to be Fantasy or Sci-Fi or Horror.

On the other hand, I love inclusiveness.

Bottom line, I say embrace the options and ignore the ones that you don't agree with. Allowing so many options allows all types of film fans to participate.

For me, August will be a traditional animation Challenge, but if someone else wants to make it a live-action with touches of CGI Challenge, that's just as awesome.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I understand the need for inclusiveness, but I feel the Animation Challenge will be treated as the Visual Effects Challenge by too many. In my opinion, only films/shows listed in the animation genre (with a few exceptions) should qualify, and anything else should use a wildcard slot. I think challenges should be focused (otherwise, what is the point?), and this one is broad enough to include almost anything that has visual effects.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

It doesn't seem crazy that Star Wars or 300 would count for the Animation Challenge. It outright is crazy.

I know ya do. But I'm reminded of that moment in Tombstone where Jason Priestly saddles up and leaves the Cowboys, declaring, "I'm sorry...but we got to have some kind of law!"

Here's the problem with the kind of inclusion that permits Star Wars or 300: it doesn't help define the nature of the challenge. For instance, when debating what would and would not count for the Historical Challenge, the arguments in favor of permitting period/costume dramas helped establish the parameters of the challenge. It was pretty clear what a period/costume drama was, and why they were appropriate to the Historical challenge. Now, you can go back and review the discussion thread and see where I wanted to fine tune the allowance, but the point is, that discussion helped define the scope of the challenge.

Where is the contribution that the inclusion of Star Wars or 300 makes for the Animation Challenge? That digital artists worked on them? At what point do we let this challenge be defined by its technical components and not its artistic ones? Artistically, it's nigh impossible to make a compelling argument that CGI effects are sufficient for inclusion in an Animation Challenge. I'm not the host, and I don't intend to make trouble about this; if they're allowed in, fine, but I felt compelled to lodge my formal protest.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I'd also prefer it to be not as loose. I'd allow all the "mixed" films like Cool World, and stuff where stop-motion or puppetry was a key part of it. But since I'm too lazy to run a Challenge, let alone multiple ones like MP, I'm cool with whatever he wants to do.

I think that most people will stick to "pure" animation, a few will allow themselves stop motion and/or puppetry, and very few will include CGI.

But if that CGI allowance brings even one more person into a Challenge, then it's a very good thing imo. But for most of us I imagine, we'll just ignore all the CGI stuff.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I'll do it

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

The original Star Wars was a landmark movie at the time for it's use of models, especially in the large outer space battles, and other techniques of animation. Combine that with the puppetry and I don't see why it shouldn't count unless one limits animation to cartoons.

Something like stop motion is animation. There's no reason not to allow it in an animation challenge since this isn't the Disney/anime challenge.

If I could find some magic phrase to disallow 300 while allowing other movies that are more deserving, I'd love to hear it. In theory, something like 300 would be at best a wild card or at least have someone asking about it.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Maybe the term I'm looking for it not allowing movies whose only animation consist of scene enhancement?

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Let me put on my hypocrite pants and ask this: Would the 1990s/2000s Godzilla movies count? I haven't seen them yet, but imagine they have a fair amount of CGI and puppet-like stuff.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Hopefully someone else can help out. It's been years since I've seen any and I don't remember :(

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

no it's a combination of alot FX, including puppetry which is a valid form of animation - because it's vague, it's a perfect of a wildcard where it really doesn't fall into all out 'animation'

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

I watch quite a bit of animation, so I might do this. I haven't done one of these before. So by starting and completing a checklist, does that mean the checklist in post number 3 or our own checklist?

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

It means the checklist in post #3, however...feel free to make up your own checklist if you'd like. That actually sounds like a cool idea. These challenges are all about having fun and exploring genres.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Look up "animation" on Wikipedia, and then look up "visual effects". Yes, there are some blurs between the two, but there are also some differences in definitions.

Allowing Star Wars pretty much opens the door to Star Trek, Rocky Jones, Space Ranger, and thousands of other shows/films that used modeling VFX (Tora! Tora! Tora!, for example) but generally aren't considered to be animation films.

At this point, it's a bit too late to continue debating the issue, so I guess it's okay to leave it all-inclusive and let almost everything with VFX and CGI qualify as animation films.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Yes, I'd say feel free to do your own checklist, but make sure it's marked as such. The checklist is an official part of the Challenge, adding chances for prizes from our sponsors, and any personal checklist doesn't qualify you for prizes obviously.

I personalize mine by adding a couple things to the checklist, but one should never delete anything from the "official" checklist.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Personally I think that including CGI makes the challenge way too broad. If you asked someone what Spider-man, 300, and Star Wars had in common, they'd scratch their head rather than say "Oh! They're all movies with animation."

Having said that, Mister Peepers is doing a great job running this and the SF Challenge. (Thanks!) I say we see how it goes this year and tweek it next August. It's not like anyone looses anything if a member fills their list with GCI films.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

So for the checklist, if a show starts with an A and is also my oldest title, could I use it for both or just for one of them? Also, do I need to list the title of what I watched by each checklist item, or can I just put "checked"?

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

You can use the same title multiple times or just once. Your choice.

I add the title in the checklist just to I can go back and see what I used. After a few weeks, I'm not going to remember what was what, but once again, it's up to you.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Incidentally, the Library of Congress has a digital collection called "Origins of American Animation." You can find it on their website, or you can download it (free) in iTunes here.

Re: August Animation Challenge 2010 - Discussion Thread
 

Thanks for the info. Added it to the second post of online sources.

I know this is last minute but I thought I throw out the option to vote for the top 3 lists. I could be based on design, what was watch, etc. After the challenge is over, you'll have a week to finalize your lists, but be warned, participants will also be voting for their top three lists(can't vote for yourself). The top three people get an extra entry for prizes.

While the lists might not be finalized before voting occurs, after a month, it should already be pretty well laid out how it's going to end up looking.