I think the point I was trying to make is that I'm just not that interested in finding ways to make BR work. I just don't care enough to go out and spend money on stuff that I:

A) already have
B) have to jump through hoops just to use

I've got better things to do with my time and money.

I think I stated it somewhere else, but I'll jump on BR right about the time that titles that I am interested in become exclusive to the format. All these other fantastic benefits I'm reading about will still be there when that happens, and the deals will be even better. It's not like stuff is going to get more expensive, so every day I wait is another dollar saved.

I should also probably mention that 90% of my buying is old catalog and offbeat genre titles. I think I've purchased maybe 4 or 5 new (current) titles the entire year. Were my purchasing/viewing habits different, this might make more sense but I generally don't really give a crap about most of the popcorn crunchers that get released.

You don't have to rebuy movies on BD if you don't want to. Just buy the catalog titles you want.

You had to "jump through hoops" to use DVD when it first came out, how is BD any different?

Was that your criteria for getting into DVD as well?

Well then, buying probably a dozen or so BDs a year (both current & catalog titles) and viewing them on the big TV shouldn't really be a problem.

My thoughts were slightly similar to yours for awhile.

What got me to switch were all the BD bargains that have been consistently happening for almost a year now. I figured if I was paying ~$5 per DVD, I might as well pay ~$6 per blu-ray and have the titles in a prettier format.

Right, and as I mentioned that would amount to, and I'll be generous here, maybe a dozen titles a year. Why even bother?

From my perspective, no perceived value in bothering with BR, as opposed to the perceived value of bothering with DVD versus VHS.


Apples to oranges as I went from VHS to DVD. Just getting OAR made it all worthwhile. Can't really say that about BR.

It's not a problem, just seems like a waste of time and money for so few titles. I actually purchase hundreds a year, so why bother going through additional trouble and expense for such a minority of them? I mean, yeah, I can do it. But what's the point?

Bother for the greatly enhanced video and/or audio. Unless you don't care about either video or audio quality.


So you care about OAR, but not maximizing the image quality? And if you care so much about OAR, why didnt you have a laserdisc player?

$100 initial investment is a waste? Even if it is, is it a significant waste?

So you can have the best possible quality version of those few films now, and so you don't need to repurchase some films later when you want them on BD instead of DVD.

Out of curiosity, have you actually seen and compared BD to DVD? On a good setup, it can be pretty astounding. From my experience, people who don't think BD is that big a deal change their minds after they actually see the difference.

Then why the long story about the wife and her show?

Seems like there would be less issues which what you said if you just posted something like, "I'm happy with DVD at this point. I might switch later on when blu-ray matures."

Yeah, I've seen it at a neighbor's house. I know this is going to sound strange, but a number of the discs he showed my just didn't look right. Not the new stuff, that looked great. I'm talking mostly older stuff, Patton comes to mind. It just looked...off somehow. I really can't put my finger on it, but something didn't seem right. Then he showed me Wizard of Oz. I had a similar reaction, particularly when I could clearly see the wires holding up the flying monkeys. I mean, obviously they were always there on the negative, but I never saw them before until BR. I'm curious if anybody has ever seen them before. I mean, the second or third generation dupe that was originally projected back in '39 with all it's grain probably didn't show the wires. I don't know how else to put it, but I got the feeling that I had crossed some sort of invisible threshold and now I was seeing too much, and it was actually detracting from the viewing experience rather than adding to it.

Now he also showed my Transformers and that looked great. Unfortunately, I didn't think that movie was worth owning.

It's possible his TV was applying some sort of processing to the video. For example, a lot of 120hz TVs boast of their interpolation capabilities, adding extra frames in between the original frames for a faster framerate. However, a lot of people feel that the processing detracts from the original feel of the film.

You couldn't have seen the wires on the Wizard of Oz BD, because they were digitally erased:
http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2009/...es_be_gone.php
http://www.tvtechnology.com/article/87346
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news..._Pics!%29/3397

While I don't dig for deals as deeply as Trevor (arr!) the line of thinking that made him switch is also what flopped me. The negligible cost increase was well worth the increase in picture quality.

Pics?

You're not the first person I've heard say this. I remember when Wall-E was released, some viewers found the level of detail in the background overwhelming to the point they had a hard time concentrating on the foreground. And with older titles, the results haven't all been spotless. I read with dismay earlier today, for instance, about how Fox's Blu-ray release of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid actually seems to taint the otherwise beautiful photography of the film; the level of detail was boosted at the expense of the correct brightness, from what I read.

Clearly, you misunderstood the point of Transformers, which was simply to look great!

I haven't read this thread, so I apologize if this has already been covered.

I have over 1000 standard DVDs. I'm going to buy a Blu-ray player and start purchasing select titles on BD. I know next to nothing about the technology.

My dumb ass question. Can my standard DVDs be played on a BD player and will the picture quality of my standard DVDS looks better played on a Blu-ray player?

Simple answer, yes.

Yes.

It really depends on what player you use now and what BD player you plan to purchase. With that said, current generation BD players are also excellent DVD players.

As was stated, that depends on what quality of picture you are use to with your current DVD player. If you have a pretty run of the mill upconverting DVD player then most Blu-ray players will most likely be equivalent.

Now if you have one of the better upconverting DVD players with additional processing to improve the picture even more, then your cheaper Blu-ray players probably won't cut it. Basically, it depends on the chipsets used for the processing. Low-cost Blu-ray players generally don't process DVD's any better then low-cost DVD players.

Another factor is screen size and viewing distance (just like when evaluating the benefits of Blu-ray). The closer you sit and the larger the screen the more likely Blu-ray and the better DVD processing will visible. That can mean paying more for a Blu-ray player to get equivalent viewing for both formats.(something like the Oppo BR player that cost $499).

That said, if you have the available HDMI ports there is no reason you can't just add an inexpensive BR player to a top notch DVD player that you already have. Most feel the basic Blu-ray output is the same across players, it is the other features that add to the cost (e.g., internal audio decoding, improved DVD processing). Then just use the best player for the format to be viewed.

Personally I've waited and will finally get around to getting the Oppo within a month. I needed to see content of interest, a reduction in disk cost, and a player that suited my needs (internal decoding, analog outs, excellent DVD playback). All that seems to be aligned for me now. I already picked up about 35 BR titles in the last three months, and the Oppo is next on the list.

^ Thanks. Most enlightening.


Appreciate all the responses!

I've actually seen some interesting discussion of the Patton BR. Most reviews seem to rate the video quality as excellent. However, some others claim it is too clean and has been overly processed with DNR to create that clear image. I have not seen it myself but this might be what you are noticing with your comments that it is "off somehow".

The main proponent that it has been overly processed is a gentleman with a lot of knowledge in this area that frequents the HTF. My basic understanding is that film has grain to it, some more then others. However, many studios feel that BR should be void of this grain. As a result, they apply digital noise reduction (DNR) techniques to it to reduce the grain. Unfortunately, some are better at it then others. When too much DNR has been applied (especially when not using the best technique) you lose detail in the higher frequencies. Some like to refer to the results as making things have a "plastic" look. Or as you say it is "off somehow."

So one thing that hasn't changed with Blu-ray. Studio's can just as easily screw up a release as to create a great one. The increase in resolution and technology doesn't prevent that. The Godfather BR's are evidence of how a look of a film can be retained (grain and all), while Gladiator shows some of the problems when you use a lesser master and apply DNR (edge enhancements, flaming arrows removed through over processing).

Yes....as cheap as the players are now, they will only continue to get cheaper OR the features will improve if the low end players remain at the current $100 range. Things will always be cheaper and better down the line. No matter what you buy, a better and cheaper one is just around the corner. Always.

The PATTON disc is one of the most amazing blu-rays I've seen of an older movie. I know a small camp has circled around Robert Harris's comments on this. If engineers can improve all older films as such, turn them loose I say..

Yes and no...it all depends on the player you choose. My first blu-ray player's DVD picture (Sylvania made by Funai) didn't compare to the DVD player I had at the time. I have an Oppo now and its perfectly fine.

Having read his comments they seem very valid. Over use of DNR can adversely affect things. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of comparing how this could have looked with less or better use of DNR. It could be that his recommendation would have made an even better result.

That said, sometimes a little too much knowledge can ruin a good thing. Most people probably wouldn't have look at it from such a critical standpoint and likely would have missed what caused his complaints. However, once reading such details it makes it a bit harder not to focus on such things and come to similar conclusions. Sometimes a little less research can be a good thing.

You couldn't be more correct...I just bought this BR on BF and after reading this I know am going to find myself dissecting the quality the whole way through.

Maybe by the time I get it for Xmas I will have forgotten!

Sorry about that. The good news is that this one doesn't appear to be as blatant as some.

The overuse of DNR on BR releases and the discussions about it reminds me a bit of when DLP was big and you started hearing about the rainbow issues that some saw. Some people that didn't see it wanted to know more about it, and in the end discovered what to look for. Unfortunately, some went from happy DLP owners to unhappy because once they knew what to look for they could no longer ignore it.

A little ignorance can definitely be bliss sometimes.

Hey certainly not your fault....it is exactly as you described...somtimes you want to learn about something, you learn just a bit too much and you start to see "the man behind the curtain" so to speak.

Honestly this entire forum worries me in that regard...outside of OAR I am pretty uneduated on film issues like a bad transfer vs a good one, etc...sometimes I feel I am better off that way!

QUOTE=GoldenWheels;9884378]Honestly this entire forum worries me in that regard...outside of OAR I am pretty uneduated on film issues like a bad transfer vs a good one, etc...sometimes I feel I am better off that way![/QUOTE]

I can agree there. I try not to worry about the issues of picture quality and audio because it does somewhat detract from just watching the movie.

I know some people balk at the idea of not seeing a need for Blu-ray because it is the best and why wouldn't YOU want the best etc.

It's funny if someone is watching a Blu-ray on their 65" inch TV, do they think to themselves "Damn, I wish I could've seen this in the theater because it would look & sound so much better!"?

By the same token should we sit watching our DVDs and say to ourselves "Damn, I should be watching this on Blu-ray because it would look & sound so much better."

Personally, I would rather watch a good film on DVD than a bad one in IMAX.