I don't think I've ever seen the word SNARKY used before.

Piracy is not wrong - it's only wrong because the corporations say it's wrong.

Yeah, piracy sucks. Except in the case of the Ebay sellers who were selling entire MST3K seasons, which will not ever been available for sale. I think Ebay cracked down on them, though, because I haven't seen them lately.

i am sometimes tempted to buy bootleg dvdr copies of tv series on dvd because many time the legit studios will release the 1st volume or 2 of a series then stop. I really hate to start a collection of a series then not be able to complete it. case in point, dream on, the hbo comedy series, they release the 1st volume then no more. same thing with malcolm in the middle. also, mad tv, they release the 1st season complete, then change thier mind and decide to release best of compilations. I bought a bootleg dvd of duckman because it has never been released on dvd. I think in ways, the studios themselves create a market for bootlegs by not giving people what they want.

I agree. Occasionally I like a good bootleg to add to my collection, like the Robots disc with the sparkly cover. I also don't mind DVD-R versions of stuff that's never been officially released (i.e., PDTV). Nothing beats the real thing, though.

Hello,

My name is John and I am Bootlegger on EBay. Wow! My therapist was right! She said saying it out loud would help. Thanks everyone for encouraging me to be myself and dammit I like me.

I have no problem buying bootlegs if there isn't a legitimate release available. For example, I'm considering buying some bootlegs of The Wonder Years because I know that there is little chance these will ever be released in their original form. I think it might actually be legal to buy and sell bootlegs that don't have an official release but I may be wrong about that.

That would be like assuming that since a recording from the 60's or 70's doesn't have a CD release then you can press it and sell it.

Better yet, since nobody's released last year's Super Bowl on DVD, let's all throw that on a disc and make some quick cash.

I agree, as is mugging people. It's only wrong because the law says it's wrong.

So where would you all suggest SELLING your dvds? What if you have a bunch of rare, OOP dvds, you need cash fast, where would you sell them?

If you have a legit, rare OOP dvd you can still use ebay. Usually the people willing to spend the big bucks for a title already know it's OOP. Take pictures of the actual disc you have. State the region coding. Look for other things the bootlegs don't have that a photo can verify(insert, different colored case). Be specific. I always state "this is the one that other sellers make their copies from". Have a starting bid or buy it now price significantly higher than the bootlegs. If bootlegs start at $10, put yours at $50. Serious buyers will look to see what's different about this expensive one or is this guy just crazy. Remember you're after a buyer who wants a legit one, there's nothing you can do about those that don't care. I recently sold a legit Anchor Bay The Car, Buy It Now $50. It helped the original case was silver plastic.

OK, got it! I have a bunch of OOP dvds I've been thinking of selling, for financial reasons. Hope it doesn't come to that....

Thanks for the help!

Good luck with your financial situation, DeeKay. I'd hate to be in a position where I had to sell my DVDs.

As others have pointed out, the people who are going to be fooled by bootlegs to the point where they're hesitant to bid on your DVDs are more trouble than they're worth. People who really know the value of your DVDs will be much easier to deal with, and for every lowball bid, you should get a reasonable bid from a serious collector.

Believe me, out-of-print DVDs are not something you really have to worry about not getting enough money for on eBay.

That's right. That seems to be the "gentlemen's agreement" on this issue. Despite what the self-appointed "righteous avengers" say, there is plenty of evidence to show that that is indeed how things are done. There is something between total chaos and crossing-every-t-and-dotting-every-i... that is where this issue of bootlegs (of unreleased material... not piracy of "official" products) falls.

A wink, a nod, and turning a blind eye.

Thanks Mike!

Might not come to that, but I always one to make a alternative plans..... Glad to get the info about eBay. Thanks again.

What a bunch of bullshit. What evidence is there to support such an outrageous claim? The fact that eBay bootleggers continue to flourish? What part of "it's not economically viable to shut down small-timers" don't you understand?

There is NO "gentlemen's agreement", it's all about money. It costs more than it's worth to shut every small-time bootlegger down, pure and simple. There's nothing more to it, no matter what you'd like to think. You've obviously convinced yourself that studios WANT bootlegs out there, and if you're so certain of that, why don't you write them a letter and THANK them??? I'm sure their response will come as quite a shock to you.

Don't know WHY this is so hard to comprehend, or should I say, so hard to admit to yourself. Now I'm SURE we've met on eBay before.

My "evidence" can be found at the dozen of sci-fi/horror conventions I attend each year around the country where bootleggers freely pedal their wares on one table, while the pirate on the next table gets shut down by local law enforcement. Bootlegging (selling videos that are not officially released) is accepted/tolerated while piracy (selling unauthorized copies of officially released material) is not.


I know that you are having a difficult time understanding that copyright owners don't need to shut down individual bootleg/pirate auctions on eBay... they can simply tell eBay to police it themselves or face a lawsuit.... a lawsuit that has precedence, and can shut ebay down.

The RIAA doesn't need to go after the individual users of P2P software, (though they DO go after a few to make an example of them)... they go after the P2P software developers, and websites that deal in links (eg. bittorrent) to copyright material. Time and time again, the RIAA has shut down those central servers/services. The RIAA has won 10's millions of dollars in judgments.

If you think that Sony, Disney, Universal, etc. don't have the funds or inclination to send eBay a cease-and-desist letter, then.... I don't know what else can be said to help you understand.

You are not the only one who goes to conventions, dude. I not only go to conventions, some of the stuff you see at conventions is actually produced by PDTV, so I am *intimately* familiar with the convention circuit. What you fail to understand is that not everything comes under the umbrella of one organization. The RIAA can sue all the P2P geeks it wants to, because no matter who the artist or record company is, the RIAA still has a stake. The MPAA may be able to do the same thing with regard to films, but what you're missing is that when dealers get taken down (and I know some who have), it's a particular rights holder who has a beef with that particular dealer because of a specific product.

There's a lot of legal work done before actually raiding a convention, so it doesn't matter how many other tables the authorities walk past when they lead a guy off in handcuffs, if they haven't built a case against those other guys, or the others aren't selling a particular property they have the rights to, it doesn't mean there's any kind of "agreement" between the studios and any bootlegger who isn't hung at dawn at the first sight of a bootleg.

If you talk to enough dealers at conventions, you'll hear plenty of stories about guys getting arrested right in front of them, but they aren't bothered at all. Maybe you've already heard those stories, you just haven't understood WHY this happens. It doesn't involve a nod and a wink at the other dealers as the cops leave, it has to do with the fact that the dealers who are left alone are unknown to the rights holders, they have no solid evidence that their particular rights are being infringed, and they can't just walk over and start trying to build a case right there at the table. You're also missing the fact that a lot of times dealers get hauled away by the RIAA for selling copies of "Cocksucker Blues" or something like that, and it's the music that's an issue. That being the case, the guy at the next table can be selling current releases and nobody gives him a second glance because that's not who they're there for.

As for eBay, I've repeatedly explained that eBay is technically doing nothing illegal by allowing bootleggers to flourish, so it seems they cannot be prosecuted. As soon as someone is honest enough to divulge in the item listing that they're selling an unauthorized copy of something, they ARE shut down. However, it has apparently not been possible up to this point to hold a facilitator responsible for the actions of bootleggers as long as the facilitator is being deceived as well (i.e., they tell eBay that their DVD-Rs are "Asian imports" as they do with all their customers). Have you not seen the disclaimer "Seller assumes all responsibility for claims made in item listings" or something to that effect? That's what disclaimers are for -- eBay will shut any honest seller of unofficial material down, but people who claim they're not selling bootlegs are apparently safe, at least for the time being. It has NOTHING to do with an agreement with studios, and EVERYTHING to do with our fucked-up legal system.

I think you should research your position more before asserting yourself so recklessly.

Assuming that we agree and do not want to buy bootlegs, how do we identify them. I buy on eBay sometimes because it is the only place I can find many Asian horror titles. I only buy from sellers with high ratings, but I still end up with suspicious DVDs. Sadly, I have no idea how to tell for sure that they are not legit.

Actually eBay doesn't employ any "watchdogs" on their website to find people selling illegal items, there are those in the general public who do it all for them - for free, and for the satisfaction of pissing someone off since they have nothing else better to do with their time (i.e. no job, or life).

I've sold things on eBay for the last 8 years and have run into a few of these "no-lifes" over the years - altho I've never sold any bootleg DVDs, except for my copy of Song of the South that I got at a flea market and didn't want anymore.

Most of the stuff I sell on eBay is legit items, but once in a while I sell something that someone doesn't want me to sell and reported me to eBay for it and I had it taken down.

eBay actually cracks down on bootleggers. Don't know about pirates. There are a handful of classic movies, which, if offered, get the sellers immediately booted from eBay.

You used to be able to do a search for Godzilla movies and find about half a billion fansubs. Now there are only a handful.

There are filters in place to look for certain words. "Universal Horror" is one of them. If a non-legit item with that term is listed it will get kicked off.