yankee0066

I picked-up the Terminator SE (Special Edition) DVD some years ago when it was first-released, and was among those who expressed great dissatisfaction with the botched job that was done on the 5.1 soundtrack (the shotgun sounds in-particular sound more dynamic on the mono track).

I thought I had seen a while ago another Terminator DVD release, after Terminator 2's DVD release, called Terminator Ultimate. The packaging looked nothing like any Terminator, or Terminator 2 DVD edition I've seen (including the Terminator SE, and Terminator 2 Ultimate, both of which I own).

I wanted to perhaps pick-up the Terminator Ultimate DVD, to see if they had rectified the disaster that was Terminator SE's 5.1 track. The only problem now is that I cannot find it. There are no references I have seen here, on dvdpricesearch, or deepdiscountdvd for Terminator Ultimate - except for Terminator 2 Ultimate.

Anyone know where Terminator Ultimate is available on DVD?

Glennica

As far as I know, there were only two releases of Terminator. I bought both. I don't think that there is an "Ultimate" edition in region one.

yankee0066

Well, you may be right, but where I first saw it was in a local Blockbuster DVD movie rental store.

I got a prettty-good look at this Terminator Ultimate Edition, but did not think to look for region information. Well, here's hoping it exists as a R1. I know it is available in R2, as I've found that one. I need R1.

Say, have you ever seen the R2 of Terminator Ultimate? Was the 5.1 track better that Terminator SE (of course, it couldn't get much worse)?

Liquid Death

I've just seen the MGM SE of The Terminator. Wasn't aware of an Ultimate version.

Josh Z

The Terminator "Ultimate Edition" is a Region 2 release. It has a DTS track that comes from the same 5.1 remix as the Dolby Digital on the US release. So if you didn't like the DD 5.1, I doubt you'll care much for the DTS either.

yankee0066

Well, Liquid, I did get a good look, and it very-clearly read Terminator Ultimate Edition. This was in a local Blockbuster DVD rental store, but it was among their New DVDs for Sale - not rentals (although they may have also had it for rent, that's not where I saw it).

That would be a dissapointment, Josh, and I had considered that, but the release date for the Ultimate Terminator DVD is listed under Amazon's UK store as September 2005. I would hope that they remastered it more-recently than simply taking the 2001 source that is the 5.1 Terminator SE track (or at-least 2001 is the date MGM lists as the release of Terminator SE on the SE jacket I have here). Especially since Terminator SE's 5.1 track is truly among the worst-sounding 5.1 tracks I've ever heard.

RagingBull80

There are only three R1 releases that I'm aware of: first release in a snapper, Special Edition and now the newest bare-bones edition.

Is the same 5.1 remix soundtrack from the SE on the newest bare-bones release, or is it the original?

emachine12

The same Dolby Digital 5.1 remixed soundtrack is found on every MGM release of the Terminator. Even the international releases sport the new Dolby Digital 5.1 audio.

The "Ultimate Editions" do have DTS 5.1 audio but this is not a "remastered from the original elements" remix. The DTS 5.1 track is the same as the Dolby 5.1 track in terms of sound effects.

Japan got the Ultimate Edition first then the UK. Which is why the UK's release date was Sep 2005.

yankee0066

Does anyone like the 5.1 Terminator SE track?

It really is the worst-sounding in-terms of dynamicness of sound I've ever heard. It's still the only DVD I've ever played (own or rental) whose 5.1 track is so-bad that I prefer the original mono track.

Egon's Ghost

I wonder if it's even possible to have a decent 5.1 mix; that mono track certainly wasn't the high point of audio at the time.

joliom

Actually, I thought some of the SFX sounded better than in the old mono mix. The uzi sounds a lot more realistic now, for instance. Also, a lot of the gunfire in the Police Station shootout is greatly improved. I like the 5.1 mix a lot better, personally. Still as a rule of thumb I'm always for including the original soundtrack mix, if for no other reason than for posterity sake.

yankee0066

What do you think of the shotgun sounds, which also affect some of the other gunfire?

Why don't you watch the key areas again, and see if you still think it's a good 5.1 track, or really the worst-excuse for one any DVD has seen to-date.

Josh Z

The 5.1 mix has its plusses and minuses. There are some scenes where it really opens up the soundstage effectively, such as the flyover at the very beginning. But a lot of the new foley effects don't mix well at all with the other low-fidelity effects that remained from the original recordings (not to mention just how inappropriate some of the new gunshots are). And there are a lot of just plain bad decisions as far as shifting sounds randomly from speaker to speaker.

Nonetheless, the 5.1 mix was created specially by Van Ling, who spent a lot of time and money re-recording much of it and remixing it from scratch. This wasn't a simple job of just running the old mono track through a mixing board and fiddling with the equalization to create a fake stereo simulation like you get with many cheapie mono-to-5.1 remasters. Love it or hate it, this is the definitive 5.1 mix for the movie, and every subsequent video edition will be based off the same master.

That's why I'm glad that MGM included the original mono track as an option on their DVD.

yankee0066

Some scenes are good, no question, but the shotgun and some other firearm sounds are terrible, as I see you have also noticed.

I recall seeing an interview with James Cameron where he detailed just how "painstaking" the process was of creating the 5.1 track so as to make the sounds as "realistic as possible". Newsflash for Mr. Cameron: the actual sound most guns and explosions make aren't dynamic-enough for movie enjoyment. I have also never heard any shotgun sound like they do in Terminator SE's 5.1 track.

Well, given the shoddy results, maybe "fake stereo simulations" would have been better, as I honestly can't conceive of a worse result than we have in Terminator SE's 5.1 track.

I'm very-glad the mono track was included as well, and I would think someone among Cameron's sound team, or the studio might realize the disaster of a 5.1 track they created, and remaster it. It's really something for some to prefer the mono track over a 5.1 track, while still others say they're glad the mono track is still there.

Regardless of the time taken, they did a garbage-job on Terminator SE's 5.1 track. Maybe they shouldn't have analysed it so-much, and relaxed more to deliver a more dynamic result. It would be well-worth the additional time to remaster it - right this time, especially since they so-clearly wasted their time on the current Terminator SE 5.1 track.

fitprod

Trust me, the "fake stereo simulations" that were on the original pathtic VHS were worse...

fitprod

yankee0066

OK, I never heard a stereo Terminator track until the Terminator SE 5.1 track.

But, the 5.1 track is garbage and is shaming the DD 5.1 label to bear it on such a terrible 5.1 track.

xage

As of present, there is NO Terminator Ultimate Edition in R1 format.

You probably saw a Terminator 2 Ultimate Edition without the "metal slipcase" and wrongfully read it as Terminator Ultimate Edition.

Shazam

I think I read somewhere that Van Ling actually regrets the job he did on that mono remix. It's certainly not one of his better works.

yankee0066

It's possible, but remember I own Terminator 2's Ultimate DVD, and have seen it many times here. What I saw was foreign to me, which is what made it memorable. Its labelling said Terminator Ultimate, and I saw no 2 II or other notation of such.

I could have missed it, but I don't think so

yankee0066

In fact, after looking again at my own Terminator 2 Ultimate DVD case (outside the metal sleeve), its front has mainly a bluish-silver theme. Ther Terminator Ultimate DVD case I saw had a mainly reddish theme to it - not the same.

I saw Terminator Ultimate on that DVD case in the Blockbuster store.

yankee0066

Well, Shazam, that's encouraging. That means at-least part of the PTB actually recognize themselves the disaster that is Terminator SE's 5.1 track.

I see that recently there has been a Terminator 2 Extreme edition (supposedly taken to 1080p). They could do that with Terminator as well, while putting a decent 5.1 track on it this time, and call that Extreme, and perhaps release them as a box set.

Egon's Ghost

The Terminator DVD came from a "high definition" master, so that should be easy. But they would have to re-mix the 5.1, and I can't see that happening. Have there ever been remixes of remixes? Well, maybe for the next gen format.

yankee0066

It didn't look very HDish, just not VHS-bad anymore. HD is not all the same, and 1080p is particularly resolute. The Terminator SE cover here says ..."High-Definition Master", nice and non-descript.

Perhaps there was nearly as botched a job on the video master as there clearly was on the 5.1 track for Terminator.

Living Dead

If I recall, in the nightclub shootout, you can hear the sounds of bullets hitting metal as Connor repeatedly shoots the Terminator in the chest. I can't remember if that was in the original, or if it was added in the new mix, but I remember noticing it at the time I watched it and thinking I had never heard it beofre.

Egon's Ghost

I think the Terminator looks fantastic on the MGM DVD; although the Image DVD looks better. I don't see how it could possibly look "HD-ish" at such low resolution.