I don't doubt it. Like I said, if the studio can't be bothered to downconvert an HD transfer (and "downconvert" is the term that actually means the data is indeed changing), you could definitely do better if you take the HD source and compress it to a double-layer DVD-R. Of course the compatibility factor isn't as high as standard DVD-R, but I understand there's been some measure of improvement with DVD-R DL as opposed DVD+R DL. And, if set-top compatibility isn't an issue at all, doing a WMV9 disc would really preserve the HD quality of the original broadcast.

When you get into comparing a DVD where the studio did work from an HD transfer to a homemade DVD from an HD broadcast, digital or not, at best I think it'd be the same, and the studio DVD would be preferable if for no other reason than because of the longevity and durability of a pressed disc as opposed to DVD-R.

It amazes me that people are getting so excited about any official DVD release, and so upset when releases are cancelled, but at the same time some folks claim the studios just can't do it right and they have not only a better source, but can do a better job with the MPEG-2 compression and authoring. I'll go along with anyone who wants to do a homebrew DVD-R sourced from Laserdisc if the studio really drops the ball like releasing something in mono when it's supposed to be stereo, fullscreen when it's supposed to be widescreen, etc., but this "why bother with studio releases when we can do it better at home" stuff kinda bugs me.

More power to ya, but I'm curious to see how long this discussion of illegal bootlegs will be allowed to continue.

Nighty-night, everyone.

Jesus relax man, we aren't talking about bootlegs here, we are talking about the quality of an official release vs the HD broadcast on DVD....well that was my original question anyways. It was a simple question though. Its not like we are talking about bootlegging discs, and selling them for a profit. I mean shit I made a copy onto DVD from an airing that was on cable, so what. Its not like I am mass producing and selling them, I am using it as personal use. You can't tell me you never made a copy of a buddy's CD or copied something off TV on VHS back in the day to watch later. Chill with the bootlegging accusations and focus on the real discussion.

The HD broadcast is nice but like others have said, it sure sucks that the guy running MonstersHD doesn't use OAR.As said many times, he feels horror fans prefer a full image over OAR...he should come read these forums! It's almost too bad it was not shown on another HD channel like INHD or something...channels that do show OAR
There can be a true OAR DVD made regardless if it is SD or HD DVD release or both.It just depends on if LG wants to do the work or not.

I guess we should be satisfied when we even get releases on films we love and have yet to be released, but it sure does suck when they get shit treatment.Kinda like just throwing it out there knowing no matter what, fans will buy.
I think LG will do good though.I feel they have stepped up when doing DVD as well as giving horror a chance where other companies either gave up or made shit.

Ah yes, the tired old mantra that "it's not a bootleg if you don't sell it". Keep telling yourself that. Anyway, I'm all about do-it-yourself DVDs, don't get me wrong (um, hello... PDTV?), but I was just wondering aloud how long the mods would let it go on.

There are nothin illegal about burning a DVD-R with HD from a HD channel one have. That is protected in fair use act.

From http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 ...

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include —

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.


...and from http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html ...

The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author's observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

Doesn't look like it's in there to me. I think you might be confusing "fair use" with the Sony v. Universal decision, but that case only involved broadcast TV, which unless I'm mistaken is not where The Monster Squad was shown. Here's the text of the decision, with the all-important exclusion of cable/pay systems:

The lengthy trial of the case in the District Court concerned the private, home use of VTR's for recording
programs broadcast on the public airwaves without charge to the viewer. No issue concerning the
transfer of tapes to other persons, the use of home-recorded tapes for public performances, or the
copying of programs transmitted on pay or cable television systems was raised.

(from http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/sony_..._decision.html)

You might also be interested to know that an HD provider can't send you a recording of a program, even if they have the right to send it to your HD box as an on-demand movie. Also, recordings they make in-house as backups have to be destroyed six months after broadcast.

The big thing is the effect on the market for an official DVD, and the fact that someone who makes a DVD-R of the HD broadcast is not making a citation containing a certain section, it's a complete copy of the entire work.

Anyway, I'm not really saying it's an awful, horrible, no-good thing to do, just that it's technically illegal. People who create their own DVDs don't bother me (as I keep saying, I'm one of them), it's the people who insist they're not breaking the law. As I've grown fond of saying, if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's around to hear, it still makes a sound. I'm not saying it's still a nuisance, because if nobody's there, it can't be bothering anyone. The fact remains that it still makes a sound.

Anyway, I never claimed this was on-topic, so please do carry on. I wasn't really taking issue with legality anyway, I was just getting a familiar sinking feeling when people were starting to throw around the non-term "upconverting" and figured this big "you can actually put HD on a DVD-R if you play it in an upconverting player" thing was gonna start, and wanted to nip that kind of crap in the bud.

Fair use also inclued anything you pay for, except DVDs and other things with protection system on. So one can rip ones Laserdisc and burn them to DVD-R how much one wants.

Look, I'm not doing this with you again, I don't have the time or the interest. Stop talking about things as you want them to be and start backing up your claims with facts. It does genuinely bug me for misconceptions to continue festering among the reality-challenged, but it bugs me even more to have a pointless debate with someone who only repeats what other people have told him and even in the face of documented evidence still insists he's right. It's precisely the kind of thing I hoped to avoid by pointing out that an "upconverting" player isn't going to help the quality of a DVD-R, but I should have known you'd come in here insisting on making some other ludicrous and indefensible argument, to which you'd indefatigably cling.

I'm simply tired of dealing with it -- wallow in your ignorance if you want, I'm done trying to educate you.

Lion's Gate has a tendency to crop films, so I'm sure we'll be getting exactly what Monsters HD aired. Plus, since some of their dvds have the Monsters HD logo on their cases, I'm sure of it.

Is the version that aired on Monsters HD, 2:35:1?

I finally revisited this film on VHS after many, many years and was excited and surpised to see it was widescreen, only to forget its just the opening scene and suddenly the frame changes to fullscreen. How annoying, lol.

Mike Adams you are single handedly ruining this thread. Get off your high horse on the copyright laws, nobody gives a shit. Drop it..... and lets get back to talking about this DVD release.

I don't know much about aspect ratio, but from what I found is that the airing on Monsters HD is cropped slightly to 1.85:1 from the original aspect ratio of 2.35:1

1.85:1 opened up to 1.78:1 is slight, but 2.35:1 to 1.85:1 is significant.

then why do you keep bringing it up
just let the "mods" decide

And once again it has to be said... let's get back on topic, shall we? This is a great thread for a highly anticipated release, let's not risk getting it locked, eh?

Yes, let's not risk getting it locked by extolling the virtues of a homemade DVD-R and claiming that an official DVD (which hasn't even been RELEASED yet, for Pete's sake!) wouldn't be worth buying. This thread has been merged with one or two other threads on the subject (which means, M&S, that this is NO LONGER "your thread", and it is NOT all about the fucking HD broadcast), so let's talk about THE RELEASE, and not about how you can make something at home that's as good or better. It's no more on-topic than anything I've said so far.

Oh, and I realize that "nobody gives a shit" about copyright law -- that's obvious. Doesn't mean I'm not gonna remind folks once in a while.

Now... can we drop the DVD-R shit and get back to finding out whether there's actually gonna be an official release of this thing??? Some of us like to ditch our bootlegs in favor of legitimate DVDs, crazy though that might seem to some....

I agree. In fact, you point out another important factor... was the aspect ratio "opened up" (i.e. showing slightly more picture than was originally intended at the top and bottom) or cropped, which of course means the sides are simply chopped off. I'm sure this is going to be more common, because a lot of people who buy "widescreen" TVs aren't going to understand that you still might have black bars on the screen.

Let's hope that the official release preserves the theatrical aspect ratio, not some broadcast monstrosity.

(Oh, and in case anyone wants to raise the issue... I have been reading this thread all along, because I grew up with this film and would love to replace my, ahem, unofficial copy with the real thing. Until things got derailed by the "DIY Squad", I hadn't seen a need to post.)

This was taken from another forum where a member just got back from a Monster Squad screening and Q&A (NOT me) Attended by a Tim P: Good Stuff


I have returned....to bring....

**BIG DVD News from MonsterMania Con!**

From MonsterMania's David Hagen and the Director Fred Dekker came the announcement that:

~Monster Squad will be on DVD from LionsGate in October! ~


Dekker promised the fans in attendance at the Q&A that the DVD started out as a "barebones" DVD release but LionsGate who knows there is a following for the film, decided along with the director to make it a "loaded special edition DVD"!

From Dekker, things to expect along with the full involvement of the cast:

Commentary
Interviews
The film in its OAR!! (2.35:1) (Dekker specifically made a point with this.
The Q&A that I attended (probably to be titled 'MonsterMania').
The autograph signing sessions were filmed as well.

More details to follow...More to come on the DVD.

This Q&A made my day Saturday. I wound up being a part of this DVD participating in the Q&A and being filmed at the time. All this news was made for a surpise announcement at the Q&A. It seems the cast and director together, have been staying tight and close to one another to work on this DVD. The atmosphere at the Q&A proved there is something special going on with this tight cast and crew.

P.S. Maybe MODS, we might want to change the title of this thread or make a point of this news post so a fan might find it easily..

P.P.S. Also the director was asked about a DVD for Night of the Creeps to which he stated " there is nothing planned but knock on wood." And by the way The Monster Squad was shown after the Q&A. The source format being the broadcast from Monsters HD. Not to mention this source was on all BOOT DVD's being sold at the convention.

It was a very cool day all around.

Nice update! Thanks for the info.

This is the funniest I have read in a long while. You made a fool of yourself in the laserdisc thread. Did you not see that nobody was on your side then?

Sorry, but educate me?

What argument did I say in the LD thread that was not true? Josh said also to you that you where WRONG! How hard is it to understand when you are wrong?

What does this have to do with the thread, other than riling Mike up again and throwing everything off track? If something bothers you here, it's better to just not provoke, or report it to the mods if you feel it necessary.

Good advice, I know that's what I'm gonna do...

so how about changing this title from *NOT* to LIKELY

Because I got tired of his allegation all the time. Even when Josh Z, a very valuable member and reviewer, said to him he was wrong, he didn't listen.

Here in sweden, fair use are on everything you buy that don't have a copy protection on it. So except for DVDs and computer games/programs, you can copy for personal use. So old LDs, VHS, CDs, LPs, etc, are stuff you can make copy for yourself or even to the nearest family

This sounds really great, I hope it is all true. I've never actually seen this film, I did however buy a bootleg of the film from a horror movie convention last year. I plan to watch it as soon as possible and see if it's worth buying a real DVD of it in October.