Mark, other than the widescreen framing, are there any other differences between the "Extended Edition" and the old MCA-TV cut in terms of content? Did they really reconstruct the entire thing exactly as it used to be, or were any changes made?

That is a very good question. I've not done a direct comparison, but my first impressions are that they have recreated the old MCA-TV cut - perhaps Universal always had a 2.35:1 master of it lurking in their archives? If not it must have been someones job to create it all over again - imagine being forced to recreate those 'fake' scenes of the Rev Mother going to Caladan!

I hope to get a chance this weekend to sit down properly and watch it with a critical eye to changes etc.

Mark
Dune - Behind The Scenes
http://www.duneinfo.com/

Collectors of Dune
http://www.collectorsofdune.com/

From earlier in this thread:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=311

BuddyRevell posted the following info from "Jo_C" over at the Home Theater Forum:

I would be curious to know whether or not this is the case since "Jo_C" also claimed in that same post that the extended edition intro was 1.85:1, and now we know that it is indeed 2.35:1 like the rest of it.

It really seems there are many varied reasons we different Dune-heads are concerned about this new version-- be it framing, contrast or content. I fall into the content camp, as I am more forgiving about technical qualities and tend to ignore the detail of video quality over the content of the film itself. Hence my concern for the bolded line above. Is this extended cut also the same as the French version, which everyone seems to deem the definitive import? For that matter, is the French release the same extended version as all other European imports? Mark, thanks for clarifying that detail about the Japanese release! Maybe you can help with this question.

Not likely. The MCA-TV cut was assembled in the video realm after the movie footage had been transferred pan&scan, hence the reason why every previous release of it has been cropped. I assume the hacks who put it together must have kept editing notes with proper time codes, though, so Universal must have paid someone to go re-assemble it from either the original film elements or their new anamorphic video transfer.

The French release contains the original theatrical cut in anamorphic widescreen, as well as the old TV cut in pan&scan. This is considered the definitive release because it has the best video transfer of the theatrical cut.

If you're looking for the best edition of the TV cut, apparently the new R1 disc is that, since it's the only one in widescreen, although it seems to be missing a shot.

Do not confuse the extended TV cut with being a "definitive" edition of the movie. The TV cut was assembled by incompetent hacks without any participation of the film's director, who had his name removed from it. It's terrible. This should be considered a "supplement" to the real version of the movie, sort of like the godawful TV version of Brazil, not a "Director's Cut".

See you at the Best Buy on N. Peters Rd. then.

Definitely

I quite agree, I had another quick run through the TV edit tonight and I'd forgotten just how bad it was! Scenes are created out of a mismash of other scenes, and the same shot of a ship approaching Arrakeen is used over and over again regardless of which planet you are meant to be on! Other bits are out of sequence too (Jamis body bag is seen AFTER he is converted in water!)

I'll go back and check for that missing Thufir shoot tomorrow though.

Thanks for clearing up the info on the TV source materials too Josh.

Mark
Dune - Behind The Scenes
http://www.duneinfo.com/

Collectors of Dune
http://www.collectorsofdune.com/

OK, I went ahead and checked this tonight, and in the French TV DVD this scene is the last bit before "To be continued" (although it is shorter than the theatrical version).
On the new Extended Edition it is missing completely. I hope that answers your question.

One other thing to note, is that now that the extended edition is in 2.35:1 some of the 'fake' scenes are even more obvious. For example one 'fake' scene uses the shot of the guild ship landing on Kaitain to stand in for a shot of the Harkonnens landing on Arrakis. In the 4:3 version all you see is a ship landing (and so isn't too bad), but in the 2.35:1 you can see the Emperor's palace.

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact the the Smithee edit is now in 2.35:1, but it does highlight just how bad the editing is!

Mark
Dune - Behind The Scenes
http://www.duneinfo.com/

Collectors of Dune
http://www.collectorsofdune.com/

This R1 release concerns me solely because there will be people who pick it up and ONLY watch the extended cut, not knowing that the theatrical cut is far superior. Although, I like how the packaging clearly notes (on the back) that the director for the theatrical cut is David Lynch, the director of the extended cut is Alan Smithee, and the screenwriter of the extended cut is Judas Booth. I didn't expect to see that info on the box.

I'm just curious what kind of packaging it comes in. I thought I remember reading somewhere it comes in "collectible packaging". Is it just a slipcover, or a tin? Thanks

Steelbook. Appleseed came in a similar case.

Man, I can't wait till Tuesday! I've been waiting for this for years.

Thanks, Josh Zap. Not to worry, I've known about this Alan Smithee cut for a long time. I remember catching this film in theaters, too and word of the editing controversy and a supposed 4-hour version came not too long afterward (word travelled slower in a world without internet and, yes, I know the 4-hour version was a work print with duplicate takes of scenes and not an official Lynch cut, he says his vision of the film does not exist and never will [he says he'd have to go back and film a whole different movie for that to ever happen], etc.). What Universal should have done was include a documentary about this controversy, Alan Smithee, etc. People who do not know this might freak out to see two different directors on two very similar looking versions of the same movie. That said, doesn't the French version have a good doc. that addresses this? Is it the same as the 45 min. doc. on the UK version?

I haven't looked through the whole thread, but has anyone noted that there are a few effects scenes that look squeezed horizontally--as if there were effects created or modified for a 4:3 screen and then squashed to create a widescreen image? There's one scene in particular where Kyle MacLachlan is looking at planets on a computer screen and they look like eggs turned on their sides, flat ovals instead of spheres.

I did notice one shot last night (during the final attack on the Emperor I think) where there was a shot of a sandworm with 2 figures on it that looked squashed, just like you describe. I think they may have used footage from Paul's first wormride, and made it 2.35:1 from a 4:3 shot, but didn't get chance to check what the 'original' 4:3 version looked like.

I'm not too bothered by a few scenes being messed up (if that is indeed the case), thankfully all the major additions (Jamis, Shadout, Babyworm etc) look correct.

Mark
Dune - Behind The Scenes
http://www.duneinfo.com/

Collectors of Dune
http://www.collectorsofdune.com/

I know the shot you're talking about. It's when Paul looks at the "filmbook". It has always looked stretched like that. I believe the original effects house thought they were supposed to create the shot for 1.85:1, and didn't have time to re-do it for 2.35:1 so they just stretched it.

So it's not a video transfer error in that case.

I have a run-down of all the previous DVD editons and their contents on this page:

http://www.mindspring.com/~dunestuff/av.html

The documentary you're thinking of is on the UK and Australian editions.

That's friggin' hilarious!

Is the 'new' footage from the Smithee cut truly 2.35:1 with extra picture on the sides, or has it been merely cropped to 2.35:1 from the original pan&scan 4:3 the way that the cartoon drawings were?

Only the cartoon drawing are cropped from 4:3 to 2.35:1, all the other footage looks like it in the original uncropped format.
For example at:
http://www.duneinfo.com/giedi_prime/...pare/us_tv.asp
I've included a screengrab of the Emperor talking to his generals, which is 'Smithee' footage, and it isn't cropped 4:3.

Regarding the squashed/flatten shots, Josh is correct regarding the planets, the scene looks the same in the theatrical version too. I also check the French TV DVD for the scene of the worm I mentioned, and in the TV version you just see the base of the worm, so it isn't just a resized 4:3 shot, my mistake.

It has a 10 min "Who is Alan Smithee?" documentary, which is just a French journalist talking I think - no idea if it is any good as I don't speak French!

Looking forward to your opinon of the new DVD Josh - I assume you'll add it to your Dune Stuff site?

Oh, and I've just seen on thedigitalbits that Warner Home Video is releasing a special edition of Superman II on DVD - with a Richard Donner cut! That is good news, just wish Lynch had done the same for Dune...

Mark
Dune - Behind The Scenes
http://www.duneinfo.com/

Collectors of Dune
http://www.collectorsofdune.com/

As soon as I get the disc and have time to take a look at it, yes. I opted not to officially review this one for DVDTalk (too personal for me), so I didn't get an advanced copy. I'll pick mine up at retail when it streets on Tuesday.

Interesting. Though, honestly, personally I think I'd be more interested in having the first Superman movie restored to its original theatrical cut. I didn't care for the bloated "Director's Cut" that's available on DVD now. In fact, I haven't cared for any of Donner's "Director's Cuts", as he almost universally makes the movies worse.

Superman II is a special situation, I realize, but I still doubt that any new cut he assembles today would be as good as a cut he might have assembled 20 years ago.

As for Dune, I have been harboring a crazy fantasy that someday I will become fabulously wealthy and will buy the rights to the movie and all the footage to assemble my own cut. Somehow I'm not holding my breath, though.

http://www.duneinfo.com/caladan/cutscenes.asp

Ok, is it just me or was there not a 'heart plug' scene. The Baron goes up to one of his almost naked lacky and yanks his heart plug out and the guy just bleeds to death while the Baron laughs. I though that was such a cool scene but it seems to have been lost. I know it was there because I remember Disney cutting that scene to show the extended addition on their channel. I swear I did not imagine this but it seems as if no one has mentioned it and now I am not sure..........anyone?

It is cut from the "Extended Edition" (as are a few bits, like the Baron spitting on Jessica's face), but it is in the normal theatrical version, so I don't class it as a a cut scene on my site - if that makes sense!

Mark
Dune - Behind The Scenes
http://www.duneinfo.com/

Collectors of Dune
http://www.collectorsofdune.com/

Josh and Mark, you guys have truly proven to be the go-to guys on this movie's array of media variations! Thanks for sharing the insight and the time to keep track of all the version sof this movie from around the world.