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In defense of Return of the Jedi

Old 09-24-04, 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by El-Kabong
and we learn from Leia's bounty hunter alter ego that at least one translation of "Thirty thousand, no less" is "Yoto. Yoto." Huh?

Whew - good thing complex ideas never get translated to very short words in other languages in real life.[/B]
I'm guessing you've either misread or misunderstood the point the original author was making here. The point was not that complex ideas cannot be expressed in short words, rather that Boushh used the same "Yoto. Yoto." for every interaction with C3PO.

Now, homonyms aside, there seems to be a broad range of translations from "I have come for the bounty on this Wookiee." to "I want fifty thousand. No less". I guess Ubese is a very contextual language.

Or perhaps it's just laziness on the part of the filmmakers?
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Old 09-24-04, 01:29 PM
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I've said this before. There are many forgivable errors in Jedi. There are many such errors in the first two movies as well. But the reason the movie was ruined was because Lucas decided to take a sack of marketing gold instead of staying true to his original story.
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Old 09-24-04, 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Toad
A few notes:
Does Boba Fett even talk in Jedi?
Actually, kinda yes. He goes "What the...AAAAAAAAAAAHH!" right after his jetpack activates.

I think the Insider folks put that as his 4th or 5th line in the saga. So yeah, I'm really crushed that someone else dubbed it now.
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Old 09-24-04, 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by TylerDurden_73
My overall complaint with jedi is it feels rushed. Yes I still hate Ewoks.
Some parts are (i.e. Luke realizing who his sister is), but overall, I don't think it's rushed at all. And for what it's worth, it's longer than the first two films.
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Old 09-24-04, 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by Al Padrino
Some parts are (i.e. Luke realizing who his sister is), but overall, I don't think it's rushed at all. And for what it's worth, it's longer than the first two films.
The events that lead to the final defeat of the Empire should have taken two movies, not one. Jedi should've continued Luke's training, revealed the LUke/Leia connection, and then focused solely on rescuing Han albeit in a more exciting matter then what was realized onscreen. Han's rescue should have been the climax and end of the third film. Then the final film should've focused on Luke, Vader and the Emperor. Their confrontation could've taken place on Coruscant which Lucas ultimately scrapped and they could have had enough screentime to have two Death Stars like Lucas originally planned. I should be Lucas' story supervisor.
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Old 09-24-04, 03:08 PM
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Re: In defense of Return of the Jedi

Originally posted by Superboy
Star Wars elitists are hypocrites. They say that when they saw the original, they were either children, or it made them feel like a child again. Why then, do they complain when they see material that is directly aimed towards children without offending the sensibilities of adults? Ewoks were a great addition to the SWU and fit in very well with the overall motifs of the OT.
Can you imagine if in the original Star Wars when the Millenium Falcon landed on the fourth moon of Yavin, we were suddenly introduced to the Ewoks? It's difficult for me to imagine because it would seem silly, and the entire movie, which had seemed perfect up to that point, would have suddenly taken a sharp nose dive in quality.
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Old 09-24-04, 05:58 PM
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Re: Re: In defense of Return of the Jedi

Originally posted by rennervision
Can you imagine if in the original Star Wars when the Millenium Falcon landed on the fourth moon of Yavin, we were suddenly introduced to the Ewoks? It's difficult for me to imagine because it would seem silly, and the entire movie, which had seemed perfect up to that point, would have suddenly taken a sharp nose dive in quality.
The Jawas are close enough.

And how would you feel if there was suddenly an attack of an abominable snow man in ESB? Oh wait...
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Old 09-24-04, 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by Rivero
The events that lead to the final defeat of the Empire should have taken two movies, not one. Jedi should've continued Luke's training, revealed the LUke/Leia connection, and then focused solely on rescuing Han albeit in a more exciting matter then what was realized onscreen. Han's rescue should have been the climax and end of the third film. Then the final film should've focused on Luke, Vader and the Emperor. Their confrontation could've taken place on Coruscant which Lucas ultimately scrapped and they could have had enough screentime to have two Death Stars like Lucas originally planned. I should be Lucas' story supervisor.
Yeah, you should be lucas' fanfiction story supervisor.
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Old 09-24-04, 07:25 PM
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Re: Re: Re: In defense of Return of the Jedi

Originally posted by Superboy
The Jawas are close enough.
The jawas and Teddy Ruxpin are not close, imo.
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Old 09-24-04, 09:35 PM
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I loved the Ewoks when I was a kid, and in reality they are perfectly in sync with the rest of the trilogy. It's just that hardcore fans don't like to admit that the movies can be kind of silly and are not the be-all and end-all of science fiction.
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Old 09-24-04, 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by icruise
I loved the Ewoks when I was a kid, and in reality they are perfectly in sync with the rest of the trilogy. It's just that hardcore fans don't like to admit that the movies can be kind of silly and are not the be-all and end-all of science fiction.
It's not science fiction.

**runs out of thread**
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Old 09-25-04, 12:32 AM
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Yeah I just don't get the Ewok hate. Are they really any sillier than the Jawas, the snowman, the hand puppet worm, ice cream maker guy, Chewbacca or C3PO or R2D2? They're all a little goofy if you think about it, and I really can't understand how the Ewoks are terrible and Chewy is so awesome. They're both furry creatures, save for the fact that Chewy's language barely resembles anything that someone might understand.

I mean, are the Ewoks truly sillier and stupider than the humor and styles of C3po and r2d2? I happen to enjoy the Ewoks, and they happen to be cute. If Lucas had given the Ewoks fangs and made them not look cute but had everything happen the same, I doubt the complaints would be there. I mean here you have the cute Ewoks who...experience death, kill storm troopers and are first met trying to cook Han, Luke and Chewy for dinner! Is that really so awful? Or is their furry appearance really that grating?
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Old 09-25-04, 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by jaeufraser
Yeah I just don't get the Ewok hate. Are they really any sillier than the Jawas, the snowman, the hand puppet worm, ice cream maker guy, Chewbacca or C3PO or R2D2?
Yes. Yes they are. A fake looking hand puppet I can overlook. Chewbacca? Weird but fascinating movie creation. Ice cream maker guy? No such thing, what that guy was carrying could've been anything.....a giant restraining bolt perhaps. Jawas? Sure they are cutesy...but no one ever said they could take down an entire empire. These things you mention I can look past, accept and embrace. "An entire legion of the Emperor's best troops" being overpowered and killed by a band of Teddy Ruxpins....sorry, that's asking too much from the viewer and overstretching whatever credibility was established in this universe. The Ewoks are a major blot on the Star Wars legacy. Just accept it, folks.
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Old 09-25-04, 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by Rivero
Yes. Yes they are. A fake looking hand puppet I can overlook. Chewbacca? Weird but fascinating movie creation. Ice cream maker guy? No such thing, what that guy was carrying could've been anything.....a giant restraining bolt perhaps. Jawas? Sure they are cutesy...but no one ever said they could take down an entire empire. These things you mention I can look past, accept and embrace. "An entire legion of the Emperor's best troops" being overpowered and killed by a band of Teddy Ruxpins....sorry, that's asking too much from the viewer and overstretching whatever credibility was established in this universe. The Ewoks are a major blot on the Star Wars legacy. Just accept it, folks.
Right, because even the BEST soldiers are invincible to being crushed by gigantic rocks and those arrows just bounce right off.
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Old 09-25-04, 04:55 AM
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One last comment...it seems in this day and age, no one can make a movie with a happy ending anymore.
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Old 09-25-04, 10:18 AM
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The new scene with The Max Rebo Band is still laughingly bad. The two CGI singers with the three female backup had me shaking my head and busting out in laughter. George should had just drop that scene IMO.

On the bright side I glad he did'nt take out Oola's boob shot out.
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Old 09-25-04, 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Superboy
One last comment...it seems in this day and age, no one can make a movie with a happy ending anymore.
Happy endings are only effective when the characters deservedly earn their right to celebrate. The rebellion was handed their victory by lazy storytelling, not a good fight.

Generalization here: Return of the Jedi seems more popular with those who were too young to see Star Wars and Empire initially, and were introduced to the Star Wars universe by Return of the Jedi. There's nothing wrong with that.

I wonder if the kids born in the late 90's will have a nostalgic fondness for The Phantom Menace because it was their first experience with such excitement?

Last edited by Disc-Flipper; 09-25-04 at 01:16 PM.
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Old 09-25-04, 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Superboy
Right, because even the BEST soldiers are invincible to being crushed by gigantic rocks and those arrows just bounce right off.
"Gigantic rocks" that are easily handled by three foot tall Teddy Bears? Yes, the troopers should've had no problem with them. And yes, arrows SHOULD be able to bounce off that armor. What the hell's the point of even wearing it?
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Old 09-25-04, 03:54 PM
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I never understoof the whole arrows thing myself..I don't hate the Ewoks that much, they don't really ruin the movie for me. Getting rocks thrown at you might hurt though, especially if they were traveling down, which is what they were.

Its not like stormtroopers were super great in any of the other movies.

There are some problems with Jedi but overall I think it gets a bad rap. The Luke/Vader/Emperor scene and the space battle are great, the Ewoks don't make much sense, but oh well.
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Old 09-25-04, 05:24 PM
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My 2 cents on the whole ewok hate thing...

I saw Star Wars in 1977 when I was 10 years old. It was the perfect age to be totally blown away by it, and I was. I was already a sci-fi fan, but this was on a level far above the Star Trek reruns I watched after school. I had all the toys, sheets, lunch box, etc. It was the one time in my life when I was truly obsessed with something.

By the time I saw ROTJ, I was 16. I was still a sci-fi nerd, but I had discovered heavy metal, *****, cars, and all the other things teenagers lust after. Not to mention that by this point I had read a lot of really good sci-fi books. I saw Star Wars and Empire multiple times in the theater (unheard of for my family to see any movie more than once in the theater). but only saw Jedi once. No toys, and certainly no lunch box for me.

The magic was gone. I remember sitting in the theater during the "yub yub" song thinking, 'Well, I guess that's that" and wishing that it had been something special. I didn't hate it, but I didn't really like it. I was sort of numb to the whole thing. Knowing the whole thing was over and that I really didn't mind all that much was probably as big an event in my life as being enchanted by the first one.

I can easily see how fans who grew up with the trilogy would have a really bad reaction to the ewoks. I always thought the whole endor sequence was really slow paced and boring (even the speeder bike chase was kind of dull). Plus, hardcore fans knew by that point about Lucas' early ideas of a battle between stormtroopers and wookies while the rebels attacked the death star, so seeing a bastardized version of that idea was a real let-down. I don't think I ever actually hated the ewoks though.

It's probably even easier for newer fans, who first saw in on tape or on TV, to hate the little buggers. Seeing Jedi for the first time without the three year wait after ESB really drives home the difference between a great movie and a good movie.

I've grown to appreciate a lot of things about ROTJ, and not just the slave-girl outfit (best. costume. ever.). The scene with Luke and Vader after Luke surrenders is probably the best single scene in the entire series, and the final lightsaber duel is much darker than I remembered it. Even the endor crap seems shorter than it was before.

Last edited by Jason; 09-25-04 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 09-25-04, 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Jason
My 2 cents on the whole ewok hate thing...

I saw Star Wars in 1977 when I was 10 years old. It was the perfect age to be totally blown away by it, and I was. I was already a sci-fi fan, but this was on a level far above the Star Trek reruns I watched after school. I had all the toys, sheets, lunch box, etc. It was the one time in my life when I was truly obsessed with something.

By the time I saw ROTJ, I was 16. I was still a sci-fi nerd, but I had discovered heavy metal, *****, cars, and all the other things teenagers lust after. Not to mention that by this point I had read a lot of really good sci-fi books. I saw Star Wars and Empire multiple times in the theater (unheard of for my family to see any movie more than once in the theater). but only saw Jedi once. No toys, and certainly no lunch box for me.

The magic was gone. I remember sitting in the theater during the "yub yub" song thinking, 'Well, I guess that's that" and wishing that it had been something special. I didn't hate it, but I didn't really like it. I was sort of numb to the whole thing. Knowing the whole thing was over and that I really didn't mind all that much was probably as big an event in my life as being enchanted by the first one.

I can easily see how fans who grew up with the trilogy would have a really bad reaction to the ewoks. I always thought the whole endor sequence was really slow paced and boring (even the speeder bike chase was kind of dull). Plus, hardcore fans knew by that point about Lucas' early ideas of a battle between stormtroopers and wookies while the rebels attacked the death star, so seeing a bastardized version of that idea was a real let-down. I don't think I ever actually hated the ewoks though.

It's probably even easier for newer fans, who first saw in on tape or on TV, to hate the little buggers. Seeing Jedi for the first time without the three year wait after ESB really drives home the difference between a great movie and a good movie.

I've grown to appreciate a lot of things about ROTJ, and not just the slave-girl outfit (best. costume. ever.). The scene with Luke and Vader after Luke surrenders is probably the best single scene in the entire series, and the final lightsaber duel is much darker than I remembered it. Even the endor crap seems shorter than it was before.
This is exactly the kind of post I wanted to see. He even admits that it's his nostalgia that makes him value the first 2 movies as opposed to the sequel!
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Old 09-25-04, 08:33 PM
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Personally I think Jedi ranks about 4th for all the star wars movies (I did rank it 5 but it moved up a notch after watching the DVD)

my main problem was that it was basically a rehash of the original ie: Mos Eisley compared to Jabbas Palace and the Death Star Battle and thats it my only problem (well maybee the Jedi Rocks in the SE but lets not go there) (ok maybee the Luke Leia sister thing too)

the final confrontation between Luke and Vader were awesome

the Ewoks I can deal with, I'm not an Ewok fan but they didn't have a negative effect on me. (the same can be said about Jar Jar in TPM)

although Jabba's palace and the Death Star are basically a rehash , they are still done spectacularly.

Leia's slave girl outfit ... nuff said

ROTJ is still better than 99% of the movies out there.
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Old 09-25-04, 08:44 PM
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I will say something. In spite of the stupidity of Ewoks, and the fact that it recycles the Death Star, there's something just *right* about the final confrontation between Luke and Vader, and how Vader finally redeems himself in the Force by destroying the Emperor by chucking him into the big pit thing.

RETURN OF THE JEDI will always be by far the weakest of the trilogy. It has the benefit of being the final film in the trilogy, and therefore it gets the weight of having the penultimate ending. So, in spite of how much the middle of the film is just awful, it redeems itself much as Vader does with one hell of a final space battle sequence and the death of the Emperor. And yes, I prefer the new version's celebration sequence to the old version's. No stupid Ewok song, for one thing. It's a shame that Lucas feels the need to prove over and over how the moviews are HIS and therefore F*** his fans by putting Naboo in it, but you take the bad with the good. I guess the hate flows through him. Only William Shatner must hate his fans more.
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Old 09-26-04, 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by Rivero
I should be Lucas' story supervisor.


.....no you shouldnt. You seem to have a weird obsession with Han.
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Old 09-26-04, 08:55 AM
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how is ADDING 2 seconds of footage F***ing his fans?
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