La Dolce Vita Cover and Features
06-29-04, 01:34 PM
#101
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Originally posted by Pants
Don't forget about their excellent treatment of Once Upon A Time In The West
Don't forget about their excellent treatment of Once Upon A Time In The West
I don't think we'll be getting a "perfect" release. Despite my reservations about Richard Schickel on the commentary track, Koch Lorber is likely to have the best English-friendly extras world-wide. If the producer of the set, Tim Hinsley, is correct, KL may also have the finest current audiovisual quality (with the caveat that it will be based on a PAL master).
If Paramount releases a pristine transfer based on an NTSC master, it will likely blow the others out of the water, but I would expect such a release to be barebones (given the financial risk of producing an SE).
I will still be buying the Koch Lorber (since, as a package, it should better the Medusa). If Paramount does release a DVD down the road (which could well be a year or more away), I'll double-dip only if the picture quality is a significant improvemnent over the KL.
06-29-04, 04:23 PM
#102
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Originally posted by Pants
Don't forget about their excellent treatment of Once Upon A Time In The West
Don't forget about their excellent treatment of Once Upon A Time In The West
I think it's highly unlikely that Fox Lorber would bother with their release if the current terms handed it back to Paramount in as little time as one year from now. Probably 2 or 3. But then, what the hey, we'll be wondering who's going to put out the first "blue-ray" version.
06-29-04, 07:39 PM
#104
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Originally posted by FilmFanSea
I will still be buying the Koch Lorber (since, as a package, it should better the Medusa). If Paramount does release a DVD down the road (which could well be a year or more away), I'll double-dip only if the picture quality is a significant improvemnent over the KL.
I will still be buying the Koch Lorber (since, as a package, it should better the Medusa). If Paramount does release a DVD down the road (which could well be a year or more away), I'll double-dip only if the picture quality is a significant improvemnent over the KL.
06-30-04, 04:45 PM
#105
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I sent Tim Hinsley the following email:
Here is his complete reply (which I post here with his permission):
So it appears there's not much point in waiting for a Paramount DVD release.
I wondered if you could comment at all on the Region 1 DVD rights dispute between Koch Lorber and Paramount. Since Paramount holds the theatrical distribution rights (and is exhibiting a new 35mm print),
some may hold off on the KL DVD release in the belief that Paramount may release a DVD of their own (presumably using high quality elements and an NTSC master). If this is still a sensitive legal matter, I'll of course understand if you're not able to comment.
Thanks for your participation in the discussion at DVD Talk. I'm sorry if some members have been disrespectful in questioning your good faith, but your information is greatly valued by the vast majority of us.
some may hold off on the KL DVD release in the belief that Paramount may release a DVD of their own (presumably using high quality elements and an NTSC master). If this is still a sensitive legal matter, I'll of course understand if you're not able to comment.
Thanks for your participation in the discussion at DVD Talk. I'm sorry if some members have been disrespectful in questioning your good faith, but your information is greatly valued by the vast majority of us.
I have not had a chance to check the board, so I do not know about any disrespectfulness. I do know that people are passionate about the film, as we are, so opinions are going to be diverse and strong, both ways.
Regarding Paramount, there is no ongoing legal dispute between Koch and Paramount, as we have the video rights and they have not violated those as of yet. Needless to say, our position is very clear: we have these rights and the chain of title to prove it, and we will protect our investment in this film. Paramount has been contacted by us and our representatives numerous times and is being put on notice by the theatrical rights holders. As I am not party to those conversations, I have no comment.
I hope that everyone on the board will give the release a chance. It is a great film and I hope that it will be judged on its merits, and not the opinions of those that have not seen it.
Best,
tim
Regarding Paramount, there is no ongoing legal dispute between Koch and Paramount, as we have the video rights and they have not violated those as of yet. Needless to say, our position is very clear: we have these rights and the chain of title to prove it, and we will protect our investment in this film. Paramount has been contacted by us and our representatives numerous times and is being put on notice by the theatrical rights holders. As I am not party to those conversations, I have no comment.
I hope that everyone on the board will give the release a chance. It is a great film and I hope that it will be judged on its merits, and not the opinions of those that have not seen it.
Best,
tim
06-30-04, 05:00 PM
#106
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Thank you for posting your email FilmFanSea and the additional information you have been able to provide.
Pro-B
ps
I am keeping my Medusa disc and will only rent the new version.
Pro-B
ps
I am keeping my Medusa disc and will only rent the new version.
07-01-04, 02:10 PM
#107
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
I'm sure that many of us would welcome as many top grade DVD companies as we can get. If that is Koch Lorber, (or even if that will be Koch Lorber) a hearty welcome!
My belief is that as a passionate consumer of video - the only way to improve things for like consumers is to have high expectations from the industry that serves us. Said another way, I see no good that could come from accepting or communicating a lower set of expectations.
Certainly much progress has been made with digital enhancing of video elements. However, I'm going to be delighted with true film restoration with an excellent transfer to video. I'm going to be interested in digital enhancement of film elements (particularly those only a couple generations from the negative or better) with an excellent transfer to video. But digital enhancement of video elements? As long as there wasn't a fire that wiped out the negative, print masters etc. ... why should I want that?
I'm not going to dump on the PAL conversion as it has been banged around enough, but I bring it up for this (hopefully) new point. Koch Lorber needs to distance themselves from another entity Fox Lober which some DVD consumers have a poor opinion of (not smart enough to change their name totally as Fox Lorber did, but that is another issue). But are they distancing themselves?
Fox Lorber did a pal transfer of Umbrellas of Cherbourg that was not well received. Then Richard Lober leaves Fox Lorber, does some other stuff and then works with Koch to create Koch Lober. Richard Lorber supposedly retained the rights to Umbrellas of Cherbourg. This time Koch Lorber does a film to video transfer eliminating the PAL conversion problem so that the singing actually sounds as it was intended.
Now, Koch Lorber is giving us a PAL conversion of another high recognition international film. Sound familiar? Do I think they will come along again with a better version down the road? No. If only because it seems probable that the rights holder that they are working with doesn't have the original film elements nor even a decent print.
Bottom line, why not reward the group that finally gets this right? Giving Koch Lorber revenue for this particular video just sends a green light to Koch and other groups for more of the same.
I really don't know what disrespect Tim Hinsley has received here. Did I miss something? As Mr. Hinsley noted in his reply, anyone that comes here should be prepared for a passionate discusssion. Frankly, there are some statements that Mr. Hinsley has made that are questionable:
If they don't have the original film elements how did they get the original mono let alone restore it? Or does "the original mono has been restored" simply "marketing-speak" for 'the film was originally presented in mono so we are including it on the DVD' where "restored" = 'included' and "original" = 'originally.'
Referring to Richard Schickel:
Why trumpet film restoration? What has film restoration have to do with Koch Lorber's video release of La Dolce Vita?
My guess is that Mr. Hinsley knows the difference but is lost in "marketing speak." The kind that leads to bold letters on the front of DVDs hyping "DIGITALLY RE-MASTERED AND RESTORED" Well, some things may have been altered, some new things may have been included but nothing has been restored.
Moving on to general questions:
Is Mr. Hinsley implying that Paramount not only doesn't have video rights to La Dolce Vita but that they do not own theatrical rights as well? If Mr. Hinsley truly meant to use the plural in holders - as in theatrical rights holders - that would also indicate that multiple areas of geography are involved.
If he isn't saying that, I'm at a lost as to why a theatrical rights holder would be giving notice to Paramount.
My belief is that as a passionate consumer of video - the only way to improve things for like consumers is to have high expectations from the industry that serves us. Said another way, I see no good that could come from accepting or communicating a lower set of expectations.
Certainly much progress has been made with digital enhancing of video elements. However, I'm going to be delighted with true film restoration with an excellent transfer to video. I'm going to be interested in digital enhancement of film elements (particularly those only a couple generations from the negative or better) with an excellent transfer to video. But digital enhancement of video elements? As long as there wasn't a fire that wiped out the negative, print masters etc. ... why should I want that?
I'm not going to dump on the PAL conversion as it has been banged around enough, but I bring it up for this (hopefully) new point. Koch Lorber needs to distance themselves from another entity Fox Lober which some DVD consumers have a poor opinion of (not smart enough to change their name totally as Fox Lorber did, but that is another issue). But are they distancing themselves?
Fox Lorber did a pal transfer of Umbrellas of Cherbourg that was not well received. Then Richard Lober leaves Fox Lorber, does some other stuff and then works with Koch to create Koch Lober. Richard Lorber supposedly retained the rights to Umbrellas of Cherbourg. This time Koch Lorber does a film to video transfer eliminating the PAL conversion problem so that the singing actually sounds as it was intended.
Now, Koch Lorber is giving us a PAL conversion of another high recognition international film. Sound familiar? Do I think they will come along again with a better version down the road? No. If only because it seems probable that the rights holder that they are working with doesn't have the original film elements nor even a decent print.
Bottom line, why not reward the group that finally gets this right? Giving Koch Lorber revenue for this particular video just sends a green light to Koch and other groups for more of the same.
I really don't know what disrespect Tim Hinsley has received here. Did I miss something? As Mr. Hinsley noted in his reply, anyone that comes here should be prepared for a passionate discusssion.
Frankly, there are some statements that Mr. Hinsley has made that are questionable:
Mono. The original mono has been restored and will be available on the disc, as well a stereo and 5.1 track, with or without subititles (English or Spanish), which have also been completely redone.
Referring to Richard Schickel:
Richard is not only an authority on Italian neo-realism, but also a film restoration expert as well (he is currently restoring Sam Fuller's The Big Red One), which makes him uniquely qualified for this commentary.
My guess is that Mr. Hinsley knows the difference but is lost in "marketing speak." The kind that leads to bold letters on the front of DVDs hyping "DIGITALLY RE-MASTERED AND RESTORED" Well, some things may have been altered, some new things may have been included but nothing has been restored.
Moving on to general questions:
Regarding Paramount, there is no ongoing legal dispute between Koch and Paramount, as we have the video rights and they have not violated those as of yet. Needless to say, our position is very clear: we have these rights and the chain of title to prove it, and we will protect our investment in this film. Paramount has been contacted by us and our representatives numerous times and is being put on notice by the theatrical rights holders. As I am not party to those conversations, I have no comment.
If he isn't saying that, I'm at a lost as to why a theatrical rights holder would be giving notice to Paramount.
Last edited by ctyankee; 07-01-04 at 06:56 PM.
07-01-04, 04:34 PM
#108
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Originally posted by ctyankee
Is Mr. Hinsley implying that Paramount not only doesn't have video rights to La Dolce Vita but that they do not own theatrical rights as well? If Mr. Hinsley truly meant to use the plural in holders - as in theatrical rights holders - that would also indicate that multiple areas of geography are involved.
If he isn't saying that, I'm at a lost as to why a theatrical rights holder would be giving notice to Paramount.
Is Mr. Hinsley implying that Paramount not only doesn't have video rights to La Dolce Vita but that they do not own theatrical rights as well? If Mr. Hinsley truly meant to use the plural in holders - as in theatrical rights holders - that would also indicate that multiple areas of geography are involved.
If he isn't saying that, I'm at a lost as to why a theatrical rights holder would be giving notice to Paramount.
07-01-04, 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by ctyankee
But digital enhancement of video elements? As long as there wasn't a fire that wiped out the negative, print masters etc. ... why should I want that?
If they don't have the original film elements how did they get the original mono let alone restore it? Or does "the original mono has been restored" simply "marketing-speak" for 'the film was originally presented in mono so we are including it on the DVD' where "restored" = 'included' and "original" = 'originally.'
But digital enhancement of video elements? As long as there wasn't a fire that wiped out the negative, print masters etc. ... why should I want that?
If they don't have the original film elements how did they get the original mono let alone restore it? Or does "the original mono has been restored" simply "marketing-speak" for 'the film was originally presented in mono so we are including it on the DVD' where "restored" = 'included' and "original" = 'originally.'
Call it what you will, but Koch Lorber wouldn't be the first company to perform digital enhancement on elements in the VIDEO domain. Criterion does it, and even shows us examples of it. Of course they ALSO do the film to video transfer, which is the point here, but performing work on video elements alone isn't what will determine the success or failure. Another example of judicious use of further use of enhancement in the video domain is what Eureka has done of late with some of the silent films that have come out in the US first. Even the US producers acknowledge the improvements. Of course, this doesn't imply Koch Lorber will perform any miracles -- but the PROCESS itself is common and no reason in itself to point fingers.
"Original mono" is what it is -- that means it's not remixed into some kind of stereo, or "enhanced" with added sound effects or musical cues (try the new Kino "Fanny" trilogy for a real mess of "restored" soundtrack with all manner of added foley effects!).
Just because they call it "original mono" doesn't imply that it's from any particular elements, or any number of generations from the original. I don't see anything misleading here.
Don't get me wrong, I agree with a number of your points, and I'm in no hurry to buy this release based on a number of issues brought up here.
I guess my gut feeling is to wait and see what we actually end up with here, and then, if more hell needs to be raised, by all means let's do it!!
07-01-04, 08:13 PM
#110
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Originally posted by baracine
Sounds highly suspicious to me too (not to infer that Mr. Hinsley is not a fine gentleman working for a fine outfit earnestly aiming to separate you from your fine pocket change or anything.)
Sounds highly suspicious to me too (not to infer that Mr. Hinsley is not a fine gentleman working for a fine outfit earnestly aiming to separate you from your fine pocket change or anything.)
"Original mono" is what it is -- that means it's not remixed into some kind of stereo, or "enhanced" with added sound effects or musical cues (try the new Kino "Fanny" trilogy for a real mess of "restored" soundtrack with all manner of added foley effects!).
Just because they call it "original mono" doesn't imply that it's from any particular elements, or any number of generations from the original. I don't see anything misleading here.
Just because they call it "original mono" doesn't imply that it's from any particular elements, or any number of generations from the original. I don't see anything misleading here.
Last edited by ctyankee; 07-01-04 at 08:18 PM.
07-27-04, 04:43 PM
#111
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In case anyone is still browsing the forum, I have good news. We were able to successfully accomplish a DT 3:2 dump of the film and will be releasing at the original 174 minute running time. The transfer is complete and we are very pleased with the results. I hope that you will feel the same.
Our next major projects are The Donkey Skin by Demy and Los Olividados by Bunuel. Thank you for your passion for film.
tim
Our next major projects are The Donkey Skin by Demy and Los Olividados by Bunuel. Thank you for your passion for film.
tim
07-27-04, 05:50 PM
#113
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Originally posted by tim hinsley
In case anyone is still browsing the forum, I have good news. We were able to successfully accomplish a DT 3:2 dump of the film and will be releasing at the original 174 minute running time. The transfer is complete and we are very pleased with the results. I hope that you will feel the same.
Our next major projects are The Donkey Skin by Demy and Los Olividados by Bunuel. Thank you for your passion for film.
tim
In case anyone is still browsing the forum, I have good news. We were able to successfully accomplish a DT 3:2 dump of the film and will be releasing at the original 174 minute running time. The transfer is complete and we are very pleased with the results. I hope that you will feel the same.
Our next major projects are The Donkey Skin by Demy and Los Olividados by Bunuel. Thank you for your passion for film.
tim
I'm really elated about "Los Olvidados" but where in hell did you find a decent copy?
07-27-04, 06:42 PM
#114
DVD Talk Special Edition
Tim: Thanks for all your information and updates on this release, both posted directly in this forum and through emails to FilmFanSea. I've placed my preorder for La Dolce Vita at DigitalEyes.com and look forward to seeing it this September.
07-27-04, 09:10 PM
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Thank you, Tim, for the wonderful news.
Regarding the "DT 3:2 Dump:" I assume this refers to a process whereby they've digitally corrected for the PAL speedup and have produced an NTSC DVD with the correct running time (174 minutes, as opposed to the 167 minute run-time of the PAL master) and a soundtrack at the correct pitch.
The striking thing is that Koch Lorber has listened to potential consumers who said that they would not buy this release if it demonstrated the 4% PAL speedup, ghosting artifacts, and altered pitch. Bravo.
As a devoted Luis Buñuel fan, I am delighted that Los Olvidados will see a Region 1 release.
Regarding the "DT 3:2 Dump:" I assume this refers to a process whereby they've digitally corrected for the PAL speedup and have produced an NTSC DVD with the correct running time (174 minutes, as opposed to the 167 minute run-time of the PAL master) and a soundtrack at the correct pitch.
The striking thing is that Koch Lorber has listened to potential consumers who said that they would not buy this release if it demonstrated the 4% PAL speedup, ghosting artifacts, and altered pitch. Bravo.
As a devoted Luis Buñuel fan, I am delighted that Los Olvidados will see a Region 1 release.
07-27-04, 09:46 PM
#118
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Originally posted by FilmFanSea
The striking thing is that Koch Lorber has listened to potential consumers who said that they would not buy this release if it demonstrated the 4% PAL speedup, ghosting artifacts, and altered pitch. Bravo.
The striking thing is that Koch Lorber has listened to potential consumers who said that they would not buy this release if it demonstrated the 4% PAL speedup, ghosting artifacts, and altered pitch. Bravo.
Let's hope the results are just as encouraging.
07-28-04, 12:47 AM
#120
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Bitching pays off!
I have fired up another pre-order.
Thanks for caring enough to spend the time/money to do it right!
Koch just moved up a few notches in my list of companies that "do DVD right."
I have fired up another pre-order.
Thanks for caring enough to spend the time/money to do it right!
Koch just moved up a few notches in my list of companies that "do DVD right."
07-28-04, 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by slop101
What's the matter with Medusa's owner?
What's the matter with Medusa's owner?
http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...ght=Berlusconi
It might help.
07-28-04, 07:10 AM
#122
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Originally posted by unclehulot
Da da da da, da-da-da da da in the right key. I'll give it a try! Great news!
If all the bitching here has affected the outcome, then it was worth it being a bitch!
Da da da da, da-da-da da da in the right key. I'll give it a try! Great news!
If all the bitching here has affected the outcome, then it was worth it being a bitch!
Second, it is always worthwhile being a bitch when it comes to consumer power. I could tell you stories!
07-28-04, 08:05 AM
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You are correct. A DT 3:2 conversion is a digital transfer process for PAL to NTSC. It is a fairly new process, so we wanted to be sure of the quality before we announced the running time, etc. It is also the last process before authoring (as we did all of the restoration on a PAL), that's why the announcement is late.
Regarding Olividados, we have located the original nitrate and will be striking a new print.
tim
Regarding Olividados, we have located the original nitrate and will be striking a new print.
tim