Dammit

After some discussion in the Matrix Revolutions thread, I'm wondering what some of you feel are DVDs that make the best use of dynamic range in their audio tracks. For example, dialog at normal volume, then a gunshot goes off unexpectedly that's WAY louder than everything else (like it should be) to the point that it makes you jump.

I haven't seen very many DVDs that do this REALLY well. Some do it ok but not to the levels I wish they did, but that's me. Best example I've been able to recall though is Road to Perdition in the scene where Tom Hanks first fires the tommy gun.

What are some others?

I know of plenty that have loud LFE (like U-571) but that's not exactly what I mean. Guns in particular should have a nice loud POP to them when they go off at close range.

Open Range should be delivered from netflix today. I've heard that one is supposed to be good in this regard.

Laser Movies

Funny you mentioned Open Range because that was the first DVD that came to mind. The DTS track is incredible and is the best sounding DVD I heard this year. The DTS versions of Dances With Wolves and Saving Private Ryan are also excellent sounding and shouldn't disappoint.

DonnachaOne

28 Days Later

Hello?

HELLO?

HELLO!!

RAAAAGHHHH!!!!!!

Simpson Purist

Punch Drunk Love

Dammit

Excellent. Looking forward to it.

I've had the DTS version of SPR for ages. It's an excellent souding DVD and the range is ok but not quite to the level of what I'm looking for. There was never a sound in it that was so much louder than everything else that it startled me.

demonio

Gladiator!

QuiGonJosh

Master and Commander...just tested it for a bit and wow!!!

Also:
Open Range
Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions
Star Wars Episode 1 and 2
Gladiator
The Gift

Mike Lowrey

I recently picked up Arnold's End of Days for under $10 and I was very impressed with its soundstage...and especially the gun play in it. Very realistic gun sounds. Ranks right up there with S.W.A.T. and Open Range.

Dammit

You must be misunderstanding my question because those two, while impressive in the LFE department, utterly lack any real dynamic range. The gunfire is barely louder than most of the voices. It's a pretty common problem on DVDs in my opinion. That's why I was wondering if anyone had any specific examples of movies with a very wide dynamic range. Most of them are fairly tightly compressed (compressed as in the audio processing term, not the "making something smaller" term).

Edit: basic definition of wide dynamic range is, great difference between the volume of a quiet sound and a loud one by the way. Audio compression is often over used to squeeze the sound so that the quiet passages and the loud ones are closely matched so that overall volume does not vary to a large degree. Some people get annoyed when this is NOT done enough (people that have children that may be sleeping etc).

Don't confuse audio compression with the process of making a digital file smaller (digital compression). It isn't the same thing. For example, the "less compressed" sound of a DTS track does not by default have a greater dynamic range just because it is bigger (less digital compression, ie: the DTS track is usually a couple hundred MB's bigger in file size). Sometimes the exact opposite is true because some DTS tracks use more audio compression in the studio to bring up the volume of quiet ambient effects which creates the illusion of a greater dynamic range when it's actually the other way around. I know it's confusing but that's what happens when the word is used for two different things.

I used to work in recording studios and I still have a hard time explaining that.

chipmac

Dammit I think there is one thing you're overlooking though in your quest for DVDs with a wide dynamic range. You can have a DVD like the Matrix sequels that have a very wide dynamic range between the softest sound and the loudest sound and still have a gunshot or and explosion that isn't much louder than a voice. This is due to the sound mix though and has little to do with the compression or range of the sound. There are many mixes where the music score or sound FX drown out much of the dialog because the mix is done in a way where the dialog is mixed too low in comparison to the rest. So this is really a sound mixing problem more than a range problem.

Rypro 525

yeah, on 28 days later

flashburn

Definitely "28 Days Later". It probably has the widest dynamic range I have ever heard in a movie.

Rypro 525

after watchin reloaded, i noticed that the loudest explosion was the one at the end of the movie, while every other explosion in the movie, wasn't that loud.

Dammit

Dynamic range is direct result of how a soundtrack is mixed and all the process's involved. It isn't a "problem" at all, in the literal sense.

I stand by my statement that the matrix sequels do not have a wide dynamic range. They are mixed very flat. The soft sounds are soft but the loud sounds (guns, explosions, crashes) are heavily compressed and mixed to be very even overall. There isn't much difference between a gun and and a huge explosion (other than the amount of LFE). There are a lot of soundtracks out there that are mixed this way and have compression added to the sound effects (generally on an individual basis). The sound of a gunshot for example has an extremely fast and loud peak and then you would hear the reverberation of the original sound in whatever type of environment it was fired in (even though the reverberation is usually reproduced digitally). Many, many soundtracks compress those sound effects to the point that the difference between the peak and the trail is almost non-existant. You hear the reverberation almost as loudly as the initial sound.

A natural sounding dynamic range is EXTREMELY hard to do because of headroom limitations. It's not impossible though. Many soundtracks kick in the LFE to simulate it (Matrix does this... a lot) but I'd really like to hear some soundtracks that don't rely so heavily on the LFE to simulate a very wide dynamic range.

I just popped in Open Range for a second and got to a scene with a single shotgun blast (in the bar). Not bad but it's still mostly relying on the LFE to achieve the effect. I only watched that one scene so far though.

If I get a chance I'll actually post a pic of the difference between what a compressed gunshot looks like and a non-compressed gunshot. Edit: Maybe Sunday I'll do this along with a link to the actual .wav's if anyone is interested (and assuming I can find a good source wav).

Like I said, I'm not good at explaining this.

colossus

Phantom Menace, anyone? Little Towhead boy blows up the donut-ship Lollypop and the explosion is quieter than the lightsaber-swing in the very next scene.

Who engineers this crap?!?!?

NaturalMystic79

Brotherhood of the Wolf DTS (3 disc set) has incredible dynamic range! Whenever Mani or Fronsac are kicking some ass it sounds like there is a war going on in my room. Also the muskets going off when they shoot the wolves is pretty awesome.

chipmac

Which helps to make my point. Throughout the movie the way explosions and gunshots are mixed or set for volume changes. The dynamic range of soft sound to loud sound is there but the way the sounds are mixed is where some people are unsatisfied. Listen to the range of a normal dialog only passage such as the train station and tell me it's just as loud as the battle scenes towards the end. You might need to listen closer to reference levels to really hear the difference but it is there.

It also can depend on your speakers and calibration. Dammit says I'll argue that this has to do with frequency response. If the quiet passages are made up of high frequencies and the explosions and gunshots are low frequencies where should the sound come from but the LFE channel, no? The gunshots of Open Range were mixed to frequencies that use both your mains and the LFE or have more to do with your crossover settings and frequency response of your mains. Some people have mains that can reach down to 40Hz while others only reach 60Hz some depending on your setup you might have more sound emitting from the LFE compared to others.

I don't mean to argue semantics but there is a difference from what you're describing.

How does everyone feel about the sound mix from Underworld? Again the range is there as well but IMO the gunshots are definitely mixed better and louder than the Matrix films.

dragonstitch

the 25th hour. the scene where norton's ranting in the mirror, specifically about the stockbrokers. awesome scene going in a full circle from front left to rear left to rear right to front right. it got noticeable louder.

QuiGonJosh

Nah...they have excellent dynamic range...

Batoru rowaiaru

Way of the Gun is one title that I can think of.
Heat would be another that demonstrates the subtleties of dynamic range quite well.

xraybies

Wow I just saw 28 Days Later a few days ago and that car alarm scene scared the s*** out of both me and my sleeping cat! In the commentary Danny Boyle mentions that they included background music for that scene because when they tried it without music it was too shocking, or something like that.

Dammit

I saw that in the theater and was struck by the range. I rented it a while back but never got around to watching it so now I need to rent it again. Sounds like they retained everything for the DVD. Good to hear (pun intended).

Another one I thought of that I need to double check is The Others. The scene where the characters first hear someone running around upstairs and when the piano keyboard cover thing gets slammed down.

hugo1000faces

Yes. And the sound of Jar Jar's foot squishing that pile of animal crap is loud enough to drown out all other street noise

RockyMtnBri

Check out Phenomenon, when John Travolta shatters the mirror! Even expecting it, it made me jump! The dog bark in Signs is another one.

Fantasia 2000 is by far a very dynamically-mixed DVD - and having a DTS mix doesn't hurt either. The most significant example of sound range is when the sprite examines the volcano (silent) and the firebird's eyes open (loud)!

RussG

The mid-air collision in Fight Club always keeps me on my toes so I can turn down the volume so as not to scare the crap out of everyone else watching.