There are many legitimate and legal uses for DVD-R.

-When I get a new PC, as soon as I have it configured "perfectly" I create a ghost image of the hard drive and store it to DVD, that way if I ever have a problem I reghost the machine.

-We have a digital camera and a digital camcorder, we burn our photos and home movies to DVD.

-I back up my personal data (documents, spreadsheets, bank accounts, software installers, patches/updates, etc.) to DVD-R, one DVD-R beats two (or more) CD-R...

-At work we transfer many gigs of data frequently, and DVD-R is a great medium for shuttling data around as well as backing it up.

Like any technology DVD-R has legitimate and illegitimate uses, outlawing the technology because it can be misused is the wrong solution.

"Ok if it is legal to record off of tv whats the difference between copying dvds? You paid to rent the dvd just as you paid for the cable so what is the difference? I SEE NONE."

If you buy a DVD, you have the right to copy it for your own personal use. If you have not purchased a DVD, then making a copy constitutes theft.

Your analogy is misplaced. In the right of privacy context, you are asking to be left alone. In the copyright context, you are asking people to hear (or buy) what you have to say. There is a fundamental difference between the two. The right that you are alluding to is "droit moral" - the artist's right of integrity - which does not exist in the US. In your photo hypo, I did not ask that the photo be published or not asking people to pay for it. In the context of a DVD, the copyright owner is saying that the only thing I can do with the disk is to put it in my player and push "play." Don't even think about writing a program to archive the DVD because we wan't you to buy a new disc if it goes bad. Moreover, I cannot invite friends outside of my "social cycle" to watch the DVD with me since it is a violation of the author's public performance right. I don't like having people telling me what I can do and cannot do. If I have bought something from the store, I should be able to do anything I want to it except to make a profit out of it.

Double post

My 2.5 cents....

I collect DVD's. I have an addiction .
At last count, I had about 850 or so.
I have one dup.
I have a DVD Burner.
Most of my "dup's" will be for my kids.
If they screw up their copy of Harry Potter, Lion King, or whatever,
I dont have to buy another one. (Well, I dont HAVE to anyway, but THAT'S another story.)

My take on the "pirating issue". Sure, the governement says it's wrong, and of course, so do the artists/developers that are having their "livelihood" threatened, and to a degree, a lot of folks here do too. I try not to be too judgemental of others and their habits, because what may be anathema to me, might be panacea to them and vice versa. EVERYBODY does things that are morally and legally wrong, me included. Ever send off for more than 1 rebate on 1 item? WRONG . Ever lied to out of a ticket? WRONG. Who am I or anyone else to condemn "piracy"? Morals are like ass cheeks, EVERYBODY has a different set.

I don't buy "bootleg" DVD's because I've seen friends copies and they look like crap. "Copied" DVD's are different ,and, as have been stated before can look just as good as the original.
Will I watch one at a friend's house? Sure. Will I make my own?
Probably not. One thing though, If I do decide to, I wont let the "moral majority" or the "right" right, tell me not to. If I dont, it wont be because the "immoral majority" that I should.

To answer the original question, a lot of folks do it because its cheaper. Some folks do it as a protest against (what they feel) is a substandard product. Some folks do it fo the thrill of getting something for (relatively) nothing. I undestand why they do it.
I just choose not to. I alsso choose not to judge them for their choice.

You agree by the terms of the "license" when you purchase the DVD. If you don't like the license, don't buy the DVD.

As for profit, if you make copies for other people free of charge, they are profitting from it.

Too bad, I am one who does not respect their licensing agreement. Let's see what they can do. However, I doubt that they will come after me when I arrange a surprise birthday party (with guests outside my social "norm") for my significant other and show their beloved works on my shiny new TV set.

You are the one making things up now. Nowhere does it say you cannot show a movie on your TV in your own home during a party. (Well if you were charging admission to the party and you were advertising it as a the main feature that might be a bit different)

Your paranoid delusions are pretty far out. No one has ever said showing a DVD at a private party in your home is against the license you have.

I cant speak about pirated movies, since I don't own any. However I have thousands and thousands of MP3s. And I have no guilt about copying all my friend's CDs.

Why no guilt? Because the music industry is a broken business model ran by greedy and selfish pigs who only look out for themselves. They screw artists, giving them pennies on the dollar for every record sold. They strong arm artists into giving up the rights to their music. They keep record prices artificially high. They refuse to adapt to a consumer friendly method of distribution, clinging to an outmoded system that keeps their wallets fat.

In short, they don't disserve my patronage.

Should artists get paid? Of course. If I were to bump into Duran Duran (or Weird Al or John Williams or Beethoven) on the street, I would happily and gladly give them 20 bucks right then and there on the spot for all their hard work. And considering the stranglehold the recording industry has, that's about 1,000 times more than they would ever see from all the album sales.

Is it thievery? Yeah, when you get right down to it - past all the semantics and 'intellectual property' arguments, it is. Is it, however, immoral? Not even close.

And the movie industry isn't? The slippery slope of "who deserves to be robbed and who doesn't" is pretty steep.

Only if you call them wenches.

God, this thread is long.

K

Thats your opinion. If you listen to a CD for years, which most people do, you sure as heck have gotten more than 4 or 5 hours of entertainment.

Well, I haven't done much reading on the movie biz - I can assume that it's corrupt to the core, but dont actually know for sure for myself.

And really CDs vs DVDs - well, they're not quite the same thing. For just about the same price, a DVD is a MUCH stronger value for the money.

One 20 dollar CD will net you - what, 74 minute of music and some liner notes (if you're lucky). One 20 dollar DVD could potentially net you a movie, documentaries, audio commentary, trailers, and all kinds of other bells and whistles. A moderately packed DVD could be worth 4 or 5 hours of entertainment.

In short, it's a much better deal.

I did not make that up. For audiovisual work, "public performance" is one of the rights protected by the copyright law. I took copyright law last year so I am prety confident. I do not have the statute so I cannot cite the specific section number. Case law has intepreteded "public performance" to mean showing of the work for audience outside one's social norm regardless of admission fee. That is why the FBI warning says "for private home viewing only." Do you also know that if you open a restaurant, you cannot have more than one television set showing a copyrighted TV show? Or else you will have to pay someone in Hollywood (I think).

I really want to know what law school you are attending so I can avoid it. A movie shown in your home with invited guests for non-commerical purposes is not a "public performance"

And if you watch the DVD over and over and over again - which most people do - you'll have all that entertainment x5.

I'm talking just ONE viewing/listening. 74 minutes vs 2 hours of movie, 2 hours of commentary and half an hour of documentary and 5 minutes of trailers. That's 4 and a half hours against just a touch over an hour.

If this is typical of the legal education Georgetown law is sending out, we in the legal community are in trouble. This goes to show that a little knowledge is dangerous.

Hoyalaw, I defy you to find a case citation that defines or interprets a birthday party for your significant other as an "audience outside your social norm."

My advice, a little less time ripping DVDs and a little more time studying for finals. Go hit the books and hope copyright law is not on your state's bar exam.

Hmm. 74 minutes versus 2 hours is pretty much a tossup in my book. I dare you to say with a straight face you will listen to a directors commentary "over and over again" over the years.

But thats just a minor issue...the issue you brought up is that its ok to rip off artists (and yes you are ripping off John Williams when download his music) and music companies because they are greedy, while the movie industry is just a nice little group of folks trying to put of the best product and therefore deserve to get paid.

I know it's an unusual stance for the forum, but I decided to aruge a point I actually knew something about instead of making an assumption and shooting off my mouth.

But you're probably right. The movie industry are probably a big bunch of lazy corrupt rich bastards getting richer off the backs of the artists.

I do backup dvds occasionally. As far as i'm concerned for all the detractors, if any of you have downloaded a single mp3, then you and me are on equal ground morally.

All I really care about is primo video and sound quality. Extras be damned. I will continue to purchase discs that can't be compressed onto 4.7GB discs at 75% or better.

Can someone explain how you can even burn a DVD? Don't they all come with encryptions--something like RCE and or macrovision that won't allow this to take place.

Second, do most movies fit onto DVD-R's? I'm new to all the burning stuff relatively. I knew you could burn CD's and VCD's, but I guess I never thought about the ability to take an entire DVD and make a copy of it evenly onto a brand new DVD-R.

Or is everyone strictly talking about DOWNLOADING a movie and then burning it to a DVD-R, because it does seem like both are possible.

"Some will read this and in their overabundence of morality will say I'm just justifying my illegal activities, but what I don't understand is how you can judge me? What makes you the moral authurity?"

You judged yourself by posting. Next time don't let your guilt get to you.

"There is no law that forces us to buy everything legally, even if we don't(do?) have spare money for."

And there's the answer.........the piracy mindset wraped into one simple statement.

Yes, a painfully simple encryption.

Many fit with just removing extras, menus and audio tracks, some you have to recompress.

Yes, that is possible too.

I've been thinking about NetFlix, just the idea of renting over the internet has me apprehnsive. (before someone makes the joke...I will....I don't rent over the internet, but I can steal? how odd)

(numbered your points for clarity)

1) I maybe didn't make it clear, but if I steal (let's be honest, that is what downloading is) a movie and like it, I buy it. Right now looking at movies I've downloaded, I'm behind by seven movies available in region 1, three movies not yet released, five movies in other regions, and a few OOP. Tuesday I'll be going out to buy four of those movies (two not yet released ones). The movies in other regions I buy when I get a chance, which won't be until after christmas when I have some spare cash. The OOP ones will be I don't know when.

2) I have nothing to say against this, because you are right.

3) See point one. The people I feel should get money get it. When I download something and feel ripped off because I detested the movie so much, I happy I didn't go rent or buy it and tell studios I want more trash like that.

4) I feel that my methods actually increase what studios will release, because not only do I buy little known releases, I convince my friends to buy it.


Let's take a recent senerio. I saw a movie called "Intersate 60" up for download. After checking imdb I saw it was from Bob Gale (writer of Back to the Future) so I decided to download it. After watching it, I loved it. I checked to see if it was avaliable for purchase, it wasn't on dvd at all...in any region. I looked to see if it was in theatres or was coming, it wasn't. I went to various rental places, as far as an hour away, no one had it. There wasn't even a festival I could hop on a play to go to and see this movie. The only version I found was a VHS on ebay, in PAL format, that was a rental copy. Now, had I bought it from ebay, the studios still wouldn't know I wanted more movies like that. This situation me downloading it didn't hurt anyone...since there was no way for me to give anyone money to see this movie. Now the week it finally came out I went looking for it on that friday. Wal-Mart, FYE, Target, anothert Wal-Mart, Hollywood Video, Blockbuster, Best Buy, another Target, yet another Wal-Mart, Circuit City, and another FYE...none had it. I go into Suncoast, they didn't have it at the new releases, and the employees hadn't heard of it. I looked anyway, like at all the other stores. I found it in the comedy section, it didn't even have the white strip on the top with the title of the movie. $26.99. I knew I could get it online cheaper, but since I was there, and they had three copies, I bought it. A few days later I showed some my friends, the next day they went to Suncoast and bought the remaining copies. So how exactly did my downloading this movie hurt anyone? Had it not been for downloading I never would have heard of this movie.

I know a lot of people don't do things how I do, they just download and that's all. I on the other hand love watching special features of the dvd, the commentary, the delted scenes, the special effects features...all of it. I will continue to download, and will continue to buy.

"Can someone explain how you can even burn a DVD? Don't they all come with encryptions--something like RCE and or macrovision that won't allow this to take place."

That would be illegal but I'm sure you can do a google search and find out. Anything can be cracked........eventually. Today maybe not but whenever any authority says something can't be done somebody comes along to say "FU, I just did it!!". People will always buck the system, whether it'd DVDs, CDs, etc, etc, etc. There will be HD-DVD. A few months or years later there will be HD-DVD X-copy. Then the studios will sue, fair-rights groups will cry foul, the government will stick their nose into it. Then it will start ALL over again. Copy if you must. I don't care. There will ALWAYS be the majority of the public buying movie X to keep the greedy studios drinking their champayne. At the same time the pirates will pirate, the youngsters will copy, etc, etc.

Is it illegal? Yes it is. Will it ever stop? Not in this lifetime or next. Putting the justifications and morality aside, this is a never ending battle to a never ending problem. It's just become a MORE apparent issue now that the internet is all encompasing. Getting something for nothing is why it is done. I think the reason college students do this more than older adults is that there is a much larger peer set in college than there is when you an adult. Also, interests in college tend to revolve around movies, music, games and the like. They have the technical backbone to do these types of things more easily than someone with a 56K connection. They KNOW more people that have the technical no how. Keep in mind that I am generalizing but the truths remain.