Exactly!! Just like photo copy machines! You can use it to copy a book, but the machine is legal.

You can also make it to PDF.

Regardless, that’s not the point. A copier can be used to copy a book, which is illegal. Yet the machine is legal.

Same concept with VCRs, CD/DVD burners, and kazaa.

There are two world of people. Those who buy DVDs and do not know the word "pirating". They dont understand the logic behind ripping a disc. Then there's those who rip DVDs and do not know the word "buying". They don't understand the logic behind buying a disc.

I tend to be in the middle, and let me explain the point of view of a pirater.

First of all, ripping a DVD does not mean "bootleg quality". People rip Retail DVDs, not bootlegs sold for 1$. What's the point?

Here's an example why I would rip a DVD:

I saw Black Hawk Down in theatres, liked it a bit. It's out on DVD. I rent it to watch it again, then decides to make a backup of the movie. First of all, the original DVD already contains no extras, so I have not lost anything extras-wise. Secondly, with the equipment I have (38" tube TV), I see almost no difference between the real and the copy. Third, it's not really a movie I'm in love with, so there's not really a justified reason I would put out 15$ to buy it, and probably, would only watch it once a year. Maybe less. Fourth, I'm a student, I've already paid 13$ to watch it in theatres, 5$ to rent it at BB. I have to pay shcool fees, clothes, books, ps2 games, music CDs, going out with friends, going to theatres.. etc. Why is it so bad to own a ripped copy of Black Hawk Down?

Here's an example why I would buy a DVD

I've seen Lion King twice in theatre. 14 times on VHS. Now I want the DVD to have all the extras and behind the scenes because this movie is my gem. I'll forge out 20$ for it, no problem. I can only choose 1 DVD and instead of buying BHD, I'd buy LK instead. I'm happy to own the 2 disc set with case and cover arts. What's wrong with buying a movie I adore?

Some of you talk like, you're millionaires.. we're not all millionaires.. we are not all doctors or engineers.. many of us are students.. and 400 DVDs is crazy. I own 30 Retail DVDs and they cost me around 2000$ already. That's 1 year of shcool fees. Many DVDs that I own I've only watched once, others had been re-released into better editions.. That's some wasted money there.

If you have the equipment and money, go ahead and buy the Retail DVDs. If you are on a restricted budget but loves movies, try to find a cheap way out.

Btw, ripping a DVD can take 3 hours.. not big deal since you only have to be there for 15 minutes..

Great thread to make a first post in...but...

My collection.

All of those are original, no bootleg. I do own one bootleg dvd, the Frighteners: Director's Cut transfered from the laser disc. It's sitting on my shelf right next to the legit R rated cut. I bought it because I love the movie and don't think the director's cut will be coming to dvd, if it does I'll buy the dvd.

I download a lot of movies. Around three per week. I see nothing wrong with it. I get most of them because they are there and I can get them quickly. I get movies I wouldn't even have rented. A good many times I end up buying a movie I wouldn't have rented because I downloaded it. Looking in my collection, Terminator 3, Interstate 60, Killing Zoe, Out Cold, Sexy Beast, Scotland, PA and Below are just a few movies I never would have bought had I not illegally downloaded them.

Yes, I consider what I do illegal. No, I don't care. The closest rental place to me that doesn't carry mainstream releases is 35 minutes away. The internet has become my rental place.

I saw a special on 60 Minutes talking about pirating movies. There was a comment about the Finding Nemo dvd-rip along the lines of, it's avaliable two months before the dvd is out in dvd quality so why would anyone buy it? Well, I downloaded Finding Nemo, and on the tuesday it came out, I bought it...along with 8 million other people. Most of my friends downloaded it, and bought it the tuesday it came out, so did we really do something wrong? Legally, yes...but morally? I really don't think so.

Every week I download 24 (and some other tv shows) and keep them on my hard drive or burn them to watch them later. Then the day the dvd is released I delete them from my hard drive and move the discs I burned into the coaster pile. These are cds that I burn, not dvds...so they make cheap coasters.

I really don't see what I do as being the least bit wrong. I feel that I am helping the industry. I made a lot of purchases because of my illegal activities. On the other hand, I would never buy a bootleg, nor woudld I sell one. I do give copies of movies I think my friends would like to them (in vcd format) and many times I've caused them to make a purchase. We all feel buying a movie is telling the studios we want more movies like them. I also feel that downloading helps, there has been movies that look really good from the trailer, then upon viewing were awful. Had I bought the dvd the studio would think I want movies like it, and I don't.

There has been a few dvds from other regions I would have thought of getting bootlegs of, except none of my friends had region-free equitment, and I woudln't buy a bootleg. This is what I'm wondering, how many of you who think downloading is so wrong have a region-free player? Isn't that illegal? No, it's more of a grey area, so it's ok...right?

Some will read this and in their overabundence of morality will say I'm just justifying my illegal activities, but what I don't understand is how you can judge me? What makes you the moral authurity?

depends on what you're copying. i have engineering books that you'd save money by copying them. even some of the thicker books, say 1000 pages, cost say $125 or so. copies are usually $.05 a page, so that's $50 to copy. now, many times you only use a portion of the book, so the cost would be less.

now, if you had the permission of the copyright holder, then you can by all means make as many copies as the copyright holder allows.

$2000 divided by 30 DVDs = ~$67 a DVD. Even $1500 divided by 30 DVDs is $50 a pop. What sort of DVDs are you buying?

Being a poor student (or a poor anything, for that matter) isn't a justification to break the law. Rationalizing what you're doing may make you feel better, but there is no "starving student/artist/single parent" clause to copyright laws. I was a student once, and I went the cheap way out as well... except my way was to buy used VHS tapes and PC games on Ebay and Half.com, not make illegal copies of anything. Now that I've graduated and I make a salary, I can afford my DVD & video game collection. In my opinion, the "I-can't-afford-buying-it-legally-so-it's-okay-to-bootleg" argument comes from a misplaced sense of entitlement.

Well perhaps you should plan your budget a bit better and not buy all those CDs and playstation games.

$2000 for 30 DVDs? Good God. Do you have 30 Brazil Criterions or something?

You can eBay them. And nobody forces you to replace the regular version of the movie with the Collector's Special 50-disc edition.

Sorry for possibly offending remarks. It's easy to think of all kinds of excuses for piracy. It would be better to have the spine to admit that what you are doing is illegal and leave it at that.

edit: ack, Static Cling typed the same things faster

additionally, the RIAA or MPAA isn't gonna say, "oh, this is a poor college student...we'll just let him go". i used to buy dvds from half/ebay, but sometimes, they won't tell you that it's the asian or r0 or bootleg version. after that, i stopped buying from there. that, and CH is cheaper anyway.

actually....some of us are simply adults with steady jobs, strong work ethic and a know how of how to budget...something kids wouldnt understand. man...it must suck to be a young person today.

Not all movies have copy protection. I have run across quite a few, therefor it's legal to back those up.

Oh, yeah, I almost forgot:

IF YOU HAVE A 38" TUBE TV, YOU ARE NOT POOR.

I didn't even have a freakin' TV when I was in college.

I fall in the same boat as aaryn, yes its stealing I'll admit it, but I love movies too much, once I get out of college and can afford to buy so many movies that I have a stack of 50 I still haven't watched, I will, till then I will buy all the must have dvds and copy the rest, so sue me, attack me with your moral high and mighty righteousness

does that mean that you can copy a DVD by methods other than cracking the DVD encryption?

Exactly. I'm workin' with a 13".

30 DVDs and 2000$ are "rounded" numbers.. I dont wanna go and count all the DVDs i own, and that I lent to my friends. I don't wanna go and get all my bills and add them all together. I just gave an (pretty far) approximation . And yah, everytime I buy a DVD, it's because I feel they are worth. I have paid;

45$ for The Book of the Dead
50$ Evil Dead Elite
50$ for Evil Dead 2 Tin Box
50$ for Army of Darkness Director's Cut
45$ Terminator Ultimate Tin
45$ Mickey Mouse In Full Color
40$ Silly Symphony
40$ Akira Tin Edition
40$ FOTR: EE
40$ TTT: EE

and i got some more like that. Btw, I was talking in Canadian dollars, maybe that's why the price seems high

Well, I dont have money to buy CDs, I listen to the radio. Or borrow CDs from my friend. Or make a copy of his CD. There is no law that forces us to buy everything legally, even if we don't have spare money for. I don't buy all movies I like, just those that I love. I have a limited budget. Nothing forces me to put all my budget into DVDs. DVDs is maybe not my "priority passion". I'd like to save money for other things too.

What the?? That's like saying, don't buy anything, but DVDs.

Gosh, I just admitted in my whole post that I'm ripping DVDs. What do you want more? And the original thread creator asked to be explained why people rip DVDs, I just gave an example/explanation and you come and tell us to "admit and leave it at it". Huh???

Yup, I have an CH account and buying/selling on Ebay also. I agree with the R0 thing, I once got a R0 The Others. And yah, the RIAA don't give a shit about poor students, and students don't give a shit about RIAA losing millions.

Btw, so what if I have a 38" TV at home? What's the connection between that and my budget? It could be a gift, it could be a 2nd hand. It could be a cheap ass Zenith brand. And I stil have DD2.0. What, anyone who have a 38" TV are millionaires now? Maybe the reason you stil have a 13" TV is because you're buying every DVD possible, while I collect the money to invest into a big TV and save from buying useless DVDs.

Anyways, I was trying to let the original thread creator see the difference between buying and ripping, now it seems like most people dont wanna see or accept the difference.

I buy DVDs and I rip DVDs. But I'm labelled as a pirate. Can you people just accept there's two kind of people, and stop labeling people who rip DVDs ennemies? We all love DVDs.

People copied/backedup DVDs before DECSS was around so there must be.

pirate:
1 : to commit piracy on
2 : to take or appropriate by piracy : as a : to reproduce without authorization especially in infringement of copyright b : to lure away from another employer by offers of betterment

I think the new HD-DVD will have better protection/security then actual DVDs.


Pham, I meant, why can't i be labeled as both a pirate and a legal customer?

I think they were short and to the point.

If you like PS2 games, buy them. If you like DVDs, buy them. Prioritize, buy what means the most to you. Why does a student have to get everything right away?

That was more of a general remark. There are plenty of people who say "I would buy (insert product here) if (insert excuse here), but until then I pirate them". I suppose the excuses are welcome in this thread, but constantly listening to them in real life gets old rather quick.

Well you are a pirate, but I don't certainly consider you my enemy Just brought up my opinion.

no matter what, the code will be cracked. hopefully, it'll take a little more than the "shift" key to crack a certain CD "encryption" code

It's pretty tiring to hear "that's not an excuse" also. We know it's not right, but you can't do anything about it. It's part of the "naive youth". Adults don't pirate as much as young adults.


Pham, even tho it's crakable, unless they sell 30gb DVDR, otherwise, it won't be easy to backup with good quality. But i think 30gb DVDR it's already in their plans..

Hey, none of us ever claimed to be more adult than you. And to be blunt, not much thinking is required in this situation. (I was actually wondering if you were talking Canadian dollars, with the high prices you were bringing up.)
The way I see entitlement relating to your situation is this: you don't have enough money to legally purchase all the movies you want to have on disc, but you feel that you should be able to have them all on disc, so you bootleg them. Your sense that you are somehow entitled to own all of the movies you like on disc even if you don't have the money to legally purchase them seems to drive your bootlegging.
Okay, that's legal.
And that's legal, too.
And that's not legal.
Are we talking about laws that require us to pay money for things that we want to own, even if we don't have the money to pay for those things? Then the answer is YES!
I'm not aware of any "like/love" clauses in copyright laws... they may be different in Canada, however.

Not all of us have unlimited budgets, either. (Okay, maybe pdjennings, but other than him.) So what a lot of us do is not buy the stuff that we can't afford. There's a lot of stuff out there that I like but I can't afford, but I don't feel that, just because I like it, I'm entitled to have it.

I think you're confusing two issues here - the issue of what's legally right (which is objective) and the issue of what's morally right (which is subjective).

Clearly Aaryn is aware that what he's doing is illegal. It seems ridiculous to ramble on at him that he shouldn't do it because it's illegal when it's established that that doesn't matter to him because in his mind it's morally justified. I don't really blame him... most of his arguments seem pretty logical to me. It's not an issue of entitlement so much as an issue of, why shouldn't he have it? In the grand scheme of things, is he really hurting anyone?

Personally I don't buy bootleg DVDs, rip DVDs or download movies - the difference in quality is noticeable to me (but not my parents, who thought the shitty T3 bootleg* they borrowed looked excellent), I like to have the extras, and I have too much of a collector mentality to not have the actual packaging on my shelf.

I do download anime fansubs sometimes, but it's not very often, it's only of series that aren't licensed for R1 release, and if it's something I really like I'd be likely get the uber-expensive R2 release (I plan on getting the live action Sailor Moon series on DVD if and when it's released in Japan, even though I full expect it to cost up to $60 a disc! Toei's live action series aren't cheap on DVD p_q)

* This DVD wasn't just T3 - it was ALL THREE movies on ONE disc. I kid you not. I didn't check if it was single layer or dual layer, but even if it was dual layer that's a stupid amount to cram on one disc. The video was from very muddy-looking sources and was compressed to all hell. Also, the video was widescreen but cropped to 16:9, and it was anamorphic but with the flag set to 4:3 (so to fill our widescreen TV it had to be put in stretch mode). As I said, my parents thought it looked great.