Cine...actually the Charlie Chan thing is BS.

It's just some wannbe attention starved group trying to get there way by making a huge issue out of nothing by spreading false lies over the Chan films.

For a discussion on this issue & a link to a site that defends the Chan films. Go to www.dvdmaniacs.net in the General forum for a thread titled "Racial Issues Kill Chan Releases".


Now as for T&J. Hello the past was racist. Should we pretend this never existed by only seeing the PC versions or nothing at all? How does a society move forward by surpressing the past? What happens if we ignore the Holocaust since some people may be 'offended' by it? Does it really solve anything?

Besides any rational person using common sense would not get so worked up over past works made long before they were born. Since what can we do to change it? Well crying out against those films & demanding them to be censored or not released at all sure won't solve a damn thing.

Instead the PC police thinks we must 'protect' everyone from our past since we are too 'senstive' to 'handle' it. Yet thats just censorship & another form of facism by surpressing information besides what they say goes.

+ I don't know about the people you hang out with. But when my friends & I see stereotypes in films. We laugh it off & make fun of them talking about how people would be stupid to take this a 'fact'/ 'realistic'.

So rather than being hurt & offended by everything from racist to homophobic stereotypes. We joke about it instead.

+ We laugh at the stereotypes in todays films which people claim are more 'enlightened' meanwhile still hiding behind stereotypes in one way or another.

So again how is censoring the past going to solve the future when while not nearly as offensive as then. Stereotypes still exist in mainstream media?

Heck i even find some older stuff amusing. Not in a hurtful way,but because the comic timing of the material was perfect & made me chuckle.

Such as one T&J episode were Tom is chasing Jerry,runs into some coal & of course has the usual blackface gag. The maid comes running out asking him where that damn cat went & T talks in a garbled accent pointing thata way..& the maid thanks him & runs off.

Sure if you take it seriouslly. It will be offensive. Yet i thought it was amusing. Now maybe if it were made today. I'd be more upset by it,since afterall you'd think society would move forward today right? Yet it's a past piece of work & there is nothing we can do to change it. So why not put all PC pretentions out of your mind & enjoy the work for what it is,rather than what it isn't?

T&J are the Three Stooges of cartoon violence/physical humor.

Yet i guess we should ban the Stooges as well huh since they may be 'offensive' today? I thought that short with them stuck on a raft & try making a white flag out of a towl,only to get a circular smudge on it,which then looks like the Japanese flag. They start waving a plane down,but the plane mistakes them for 'japs' & bombs them!

Very funny..& since it takes place durring WW2 & times were racist back then ect ect. This reaction by the pilot is not unrealistic. So should we ban that today?

Since again when does surpressing the past solve anything?

Answer is rather simple. It doesn't...& i'm sure anyone with a braincell in there head will know the difference between then & now. Thus we don't need any 'warnings' & 'special introductions' to 'warn' people about the content of the stuff. Only a moron would believe that 'hateful' material never existed in older films & shorts!


Also just remembered another thing which contradicts your previous post. You state that anyone who is 'white' will not be offended by the cartoons. Meanwhile anyone of another race will be!

Well hello,what about Elmer Fudd a 'white' stereotype? What about Yosimite Sam..a 'white' redneck stereotype? What of the other charecters who are made fun of who happen to be white?

Do you not think that white people may be 'offended' by them? Yet considering they were popular & made fun of EVERYONE,not just specific races as the PC police want you to believe. Why did they not protest & demand them altered or banned over the stereotypical content?

Don't forget Porky Pig. He may 'offend' people who stutter or happen to be fat.



Since they got the joke & found them FUNNY. People seem to take everything too seriouslly today & forget to enjoy life.

So why does everyone else play the 'victim' over stereotypes when these toons were just as 'humiliating' to white people,as well as anyone else?

Yet i don't see anyone going after Elmer & Sam. Whats up with that huh?

It's obvious that people with a sense of humor to laugh at themselves get the joke & have fun with the material which is done innocently,rather than mean spirited & hateful. Meanwhile the PC police are always looking to suck away any fun possible in life.

Yeah, what SHE said (pointing to Julie Walker)!!

:wave:

Julie, are you are relation to the Julie Walker who was the MST3K info club poobah?

I'm a black person and I want these cartoons uncut. I'm not offended by these cartooons because they are funny. I find the stereotypes in rap videos more offendsive then these cartoons. I want the Tom & Jerry cartoons that I remember watching as a child. I also laugh at the white stereotypes in these cartoons. The big white guy that always got angry and hit Tom. I sure hope that I don't offend any white people when I laugh at the white stereotypes in these classic cartoons. I wouldn't want anybody to think I'm a racist.

Re: very sad
 

FOAD!!!!!!

My 10 year old cousin’s birthday is coming up and you just inspired me on what birthday gift I’m going to give him!

/me pets his uncensored Tom and Jerry VCDs

A point was made, and it is a valid point. I'm white, so I tend to turn a blind eye to things that may offend someone of a different race. My argument has always been: "don't stifle the past...they didn't ban Gone With The Wind so why should they ban T&J...blah, blah, blah..." But every argument was baised, naturally, because I cannot possibly imagine or fathom the emotions of black people, not matter "how enlightened" I think I am.

That said, I was watching American History X with my black wife, and I found myself blushing throughout the entire picture because of all the hatred and racial bigotry spewed. My wife, however, didn't really have that big a problem with it because she is apparently more enlightened than I am.

I remember a few years back asking my black friends if they thought Tom and Jerry was "offensive." They said, I don't think so, but why don't you show me what you're referring to. Apparently they didn't remember the scenes I had in mind, and when I did show them some of the racier material, they looked at me and said that they weren't offended, but they could see how some people could be.

It is an endless debate, and I don't know what the answer is. Personally, I would want the cartoons as I remembered them, despite the material therein.

Great reply! Now maybe it's time we all band together & outnumber the PC censorship police? That will show them:)

+ for those who do find the toons offensive. They have the simple easy as pie choice/option of turning them off,not watching or buying them! Why has'nt the PC police thought of this? Oh yeah,they want to control everything & take away any fun possible in life.

+ I also agree on rap videos being far more offensive than these cartoons. Yet they still clog up the airwaves & i'm always turning the channel in disgust. Laugh it off as "Jeez,still going over the same old ground? What a bunch on no talents" since it's amusing watching them copy the last popular act & just going through the motions. Fear of a Black Hat was a hilarious spoof of gangster rap. I loved that film & have'nt been able to look at rap music/videos the same since.

Nope,taken from Mindy Clarkes name in Return of the Living Dead 3:)

Easy solution: If it offends you, don't buy it.


God forbid whoever has the rights to all of the Our Gang/Little Rascals short films put them all on DVD. Think of the controversy that would boil up. But that's another thread...

Long live Tom & Jerry and pbbbbtt to those that would try to keep me from having them.

uh oh.. I heard Jesse Jackson is on his way to Hollywood...

:D

I personally want to see the Tom & Jerry (and Warner Bros) cartoons uncut. Are some of the cartoons racist and offensive? Yes. Does pretending that these stereotypes never existed solve anything? No. We can't just sweep it under the rug I mean IMHO that's part of the problem with this country. We like to pretend that our history is all neat and wonderful and forget about all the nasty things we've done in the past and continue to do at this very moment.

Simple solution: have two versions of the set: one cut and one uncut. Sure it will cost the production company a little more money but I think it's the only way to please everybody. That way the PC people who don't want their kids exposed to the more questionable cartoons can be satisfied. And those of us who would project them from rooftops as a learning experience can be just as happy.

I think they should released uncut only. Heck the censored versions still air on tv. So the PC freaks have that option. Yet i will choose to only view them uncut as intended:)

I'm no prude. I bought every version of VCD's known to man.

Another argument of mine: Black people from the south still talk in a southern accent. Some are still maids. Why is the image of the maid in the T&J cartoons offensive?!

It's not,at least to actual fans of the toons & people in general.

Only the few uptight PC freaks who want to whitewash everything & make the world seem to so bland & sterile have a problem with it. When these lamebrains band together,they start threatening the studios & making a scene. Thus studio not wanting a 'bad' image bow down to there demands of censorship. + The studio stupidly thinks "Well this group is after us..& they must represent the public at large!" when it's really the opposite. They don't represent myself or anyone i can think of.

So PC freaks win,open minded public loses. Yet hopefully things start to change..& uncut releases is the best way to tell them to buzz off.

Funny, watching T&J when I was a kid, I never got the impression that the black woman was a maid. I thought she was Tom's owner/master. There never were any other people in the house. The "uniform" she wore just looks like a dress with an apron. I don't believe she was a maid.

Upper,i always thought that myself!

Again just shows how the PC freaks put everything out of context for there own 'good'.

I promise that this won't be a "glad I have the laserdisc" post... but it sounds like you'd enjoy the COMPLEAT TEX AVERY laserdisc box, which includes the cartoons you mentioned, plus dozens of others that you'll probably love. All uncut.

You forget that this was the 1940's, and that black people didn't own homes like the ones T&J lived in. They worked there, and often included room and board with a salary.

I agree--if there are any racist nuances to those cartoons, I think editing those parts out would be potentially more harmful than leaving them in. 'Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.' Assuming a child is of a certain mental age, I would rather watch the unedited versions with him, so then we could discuss what's right and wrong about each of them, and the difference between reality and fantasy [wrong: chasing after mice with a knife; fantasy: cartoon; reality in fantasy: anthropomorphizing the animals to act like people did at certain times.] People aren't all nice and happy go lucky and love-everyone. There are still even today racists, sexists, homophobes, people who judge on weight, wearing glasses, etc. And yes, those cartoons did come from a different time, one that we can learn from through the perspective of history.

You bring up an interesting comparison: I also watched American History X, and as a white male, I was truly disgusted by what'shisnames [Ed Norton] character at the first of the movie. As the movie went on, the movie somewhat got a little more positive, but after watching the entire movie, I had to think: Why? Why make that movie, why do the characters act like that, why do people in real life act like that? But there is a subtle difference between T&J and AHX: AHX was full of a bunch of racist ignorant b@st@rds, of all races and genders. Their racism was promoted by hate, violence, and feelings of inferiority/superiority. T&J [judging from my memory] portrayed its characters as a reflection of the times. Yes, it was an ignorant reflection, but most of society was ignorant at that time. Ignorance is no excuse, but it can be an explanation. We wouldn't expect to see a T&J cartoon produced today to be much like those first ones, but we shouldn't punish them for knowledge they didn't have at the time of creation.

Also when they show her head it has a cloth that suggests she was a maid. Plus when her bedroom is shown it is not very luxurious.

The cloth resembled that of Aunt Jamaima: a red do-rag. Hmmm...thinking of that, didn't they change the image on the syrup to reflect hair on Aunt, and took away the do-rag?

Her bedroom was actually as nice as the rest of the mansion T&J apparently were fortunate to live in.

And why is it so wrong to have a black maid anyway?? Even the Jefferson's have a black maid!! (maybe T&J takes place in the Jefferson's house...)

It is important that these films remain uncut but that they receive a good historical introduction. The least we could do with racist cartoons is to show our kids how mainstream these horridious ideas were not so long ago even in a coutry that calls itself "the land of the free".

Following that judgement, shouldn't they also ban a movie like "Shindler's list"? I'm certain that some older german people could feel great guilt by watching this movie in the company of jewish people.

does cartoon network ever play the red hot riding hood trilogy? I heard they banned them, but not quite sure 100%?

I'd have no problem with the voice changing if the new voice called out his name in the same fashion. When I think of T&J, that voice and call are one of things that stick out.

Bah! What's so wrong with a southern accent calling out Thomas's name? Since when is that racist? White people talk that way, too! The state of Texas is full of em.