Return to Crystal Lake is the docu that's on the current R2 release of F13th.

It's my understanding that these movies were made, edited, submited to the MPAA, given an X rating, re-edited, submitted to the MPAA, given an X rating and so on til finally it got an R. For the first 4 films, only seconds worth of gore were cut from kills. The question would be: what did Paramount do every time the movie was resubmited? (Part 2 was submited a then record number of times) Did they store away each one, or at least keep the original one? They would just have to clean that up, no need to go searching for scraps. And I don't think they were so quick to discard all F13 scraps, as they were always able to come up with cut/alternative footage for the TV versions. Something like the Tiffany Helm kill, which was deemed too tacky by whomever on the set and changed, would not belong in an 'uncut' version of the movie. If it was filmed and it still exists, it's for the extras dept. Otherwise, she has 2 kill scenes (the one that made it to the film was cut anyway). Now we'd be talking 'Director's Cuts' and let's be honest, it's not really a term that applies to F13 movies. Part 6 is tricky, because the director said he filmed the kills in all different versions (PG, R, X) so that if the MPAA bitched about everything he could tone down the gore without his movie looking butchered (smart move!) But if he ever did a full X version to begin with, I'm not sure. Buechler said that they were on a really tight schedule so they were just submitting the kill scenes to the MPAA without the rest of the movie. This would lead me to believe a full uncut version in the hands of Paramount probably never existed, and this one definetly needs the director in there and the hope that all this footage is still around. There's no way to compare the quick trims to the first 4 movies to the beating this one took (and, unlike 5 & 8, this one had stunning FX work). But it's only 16 years old, bigger miracles have been worked on older films. Part 8 had one murder refilmed, so again one would be in the film and one an extra, but I'm under the impression that 8 was filmed pretty bloodless to begin with anyway.

Part 8 was said to have been filmed with both 'bloody' & 'non-bloody' murder sequences. They submitted the 'non-bloody' version to the MPAA which still needed a few seconds cut before earing a R!


As for part 6 which i am dieing to see in uncut form as it's my favorite sequel in the series. Well i'm pretty sure the director wanted to get the full uncut gore soaked version out there for the fans to see. Afterall,thats what they want!

Filming the kill sequences in various ways...to smoothly edit around them if the MPAA gives it a X was just a idea,so that even with the cuts. The pace/flow of the film was not severely hurt like say with My Bloody Valentine or F13th part 7 which have edits that are about as subtle as a butchur!

Meanwhile they had hoped to get the uncut version released on home video at the time. It was mentioned in a Fangoria article at the time on the extreme cuts the film suffered. Of course the uncut version never happened,thanks to Paramount.

So while i think part 6 flows well even with the cuts. The murder sequences themselves do not pack the impact/shock value they would in uncut form since all the gore is hacked out. In fact the kills are now PG-13 level in the film. The only thing keeping it a R,is some cussing,brief drug use & sexual inuendo(though with no nudity!). Yet otherwise it's a very PG-13 film now sadly. While effectively directed,acted,paced..& just one scary thrill ride. It is disappointing that all the over the top gore was cut out.


Also i'm pretty sure the uncut footage is in the vaults somwhere. I mean,not only do alternate sequences show up on tv versions(originally years ago..but not of late). Yet also the first dvd by Paramount included one complete uncut murder sequence..& very brief(micro-second/couple frames) additions to the rest(though one gore sequence IN the R version was cut by a couple seconds for some odd reason!). So it's a weird hybrid of the uncut & cut version of the film..yet not truely complete one way or the other! Yet since they claimed at one time to not keep any footage pre-1990 in the vaults. Then where did this footage come about then?

So it's pretty obvious the footage is out there. They must have a uncut print lieing around somewhere. If the uncut My Bloody Valentine can be found all these years later(which P. won't release sadly at the moment).

Also just because the uncut versions of the sequels never materialised in foriegn markets or on bootleg does not mean they don't exist! Maybe like with MBV,the R version was giving to the internationl markets..& they included the uncut material on another reel,which the theater could splice in if they choose(yet for some reason did not). Also bootlegs of part 7 have never seen the light of day in uncut form. Meanwhile the uncut footage was shown at coventions by Kane Hodder at one time!

So don't give up hope just yet. The footage is out there..waiting!

Originally posted by Julie Walker

Also i'm pretty sure the uncut footage is in the vaults somwhere. I mean,not only do alternate sequences show up on tv versions(originally years ago..but not of late). Yet also the first dvd by Paramount included one complete uncut murder sequence..& very brief(micro-second/couple frames) additions to the rest(though one gore sequence IN the R version was cut by a couple seconds for some odd reason!). So it's a weird hybrid of the uncut & cut version of the film..yet not truely complete one way or the other! Yet since they claimed at one time to not keep any footage pre-1990 in the vaults. Then where did this footage come about then?

As I said in my post, the first Friday was released fully uncut in Japan, on LD. This was an offical release, and a decent print (although pan & scan) was used. Therefore, it's obvious that an uncut original negative was stored (as the recent R2 release wideley improves on the previous LD transfer) to be used later for overseas markets only. it's not a mystery that it appeared on the original US DVD release, as it was footage that was never 'lost'. (yes it's odd the way it came about in it's final form, but that proves my point that when these new prints are struck they are sometimes pulled from various source materials- they pulled at least one of the kills from the overseas print- again never LOST justnot chosen by Paramount to be released in the states)
The TV footage is not the same as gore, and since the footage was used for the purpose to PAD RUNTIME LENGTH ON TV...of course it still exists!!!

So it's pretty obvious the footage is out there. They must have a uncut print lieing around somewhere. If the uncut My Bloody Valentine can be found all these years later(which P. won't release sadly at the moment).

Obvious? Enlighten me, please. If you have better contacts then I do, by all means let me know.

Also just because the uncut versions of the sequels never materialised in foriegn markets or on bootleg does not mean they don't exist! Maybe like with MBV,the R version was giving to the internationl markets..& they included the uncut material on another reel,which the theater could splice in if they choose(yet for some reason did not).

Theaters have no say over what print is used, or have the impunity to edit at will. The distributor for the film in that country supplies the prints. I have seen versions for the Dutch, German, French, Japanese, British and other countries' releases for various films and NONE of them have anyhting extra and in many cases are cut worse then the US counterparts.

Also bootlegs of part 7 have never seen the light of day in uncut form. Meanwhile the uncut footage was shown at coventions by Kane Hodder at one time!

Again, as i said earlier we KNOW ths footage exists. John Carl Buechler has stated it does, and is trying to get it released. Cast members having unedited footage does not equal bootleggers having access to it. Many of the cast mebers I have talked to have no clue about what is or isn't available, and the part was just a paycheck and nothing more. (I just have to chuckle when I see other F13th fan sites asking these folks for uncut versions of the films!)

Cheers,
Erik

I just wanted to add that I am NOT saying the footage doesn't exist anywhere! I would be doing back flips and ***** a solid gold egg if they come across this footage, I just think from my experiences, and who I've talked to it is highly unlikely.

Cheers,
Erik

Well the point i'm trying to make is. Never say never.

When i first saw MBV & how horribly mangled it was. I yearned for a uncut release. Yet upon doing alittle research. The general consensus was the footage was lost..& will never ever see the light of day. So we're stuck the butchured R version. Sad but true,deal with it.

Yet just recently,the producer ended up locating a uncut print,contacted Paramount who told him 'no!'. He & a few other people are still trying to get the uncut version out there somehow,but it appears Paramount hold worldwide rights to the film,all but one or two countries. Though i spoke with someone from Germany,who was told by Paramount that they do not own the rights here as previouslly stated. So hopefully Dragon can get the ball rolling on it. Yet it's been nearly a year,since i've heard anything about this.

Anyway the good news is the footage exists..despite previous observations that is must not exist,since it has never shown up in any form,be it international versions or bootlegs.

Then the recent news on The Devils is again really eye opening great news. 30 years later,some footage(namely the 'rape of christ sequence) that has never been seen in any print of the film,since it was cut by the censors prerating submission..has finally been located! Of course Warner is refusing to restore the film to complete form at the moment. Yet the good news is. The footage exists. Again it was thought to be lost forever & that we should be happy to just have the UK print available overseas,which is the most complete version of the film,unless the footage is restored.

So how should that hold for the F13th series which was made within a 20 year time span?

Chances are pretty good that the footage is out there somewhere. Thus it's best to stop thinking negatively & speculating the footage must be gone forever. It may just show up eventually..& put all the naysayers to shame.

The time-span has nothing to do with it.
It's the circumstances surrounding the filming of these movies.
Let's take a look at the facts, shall we?
The original was not a studio film. It was a negative pick-up deal that suprisingly (to Paramount especially) went through the roof. Non-studio film means non-studio crew. And considering that the original cuts were made in Sean Cunningham's home, it's obvious that Paramount didn't have a say in what was filmed.

Money pours in and Paramount demands a sequel less then one year later. Now you have studio intervention and suits constantly peeking over your shoulder. The MPAA clamped down, and thus began the war over gore.
In subsequent films, (3,4 and 5 esp.) producer Frank Mancuso Jr.was second-guessing almost every kill sometimes on-set and sometimes even before the script started getting shot (part 6) in a pre-emptive strike against another MPAA battle.

It's not simply a matter of the footage being shot, deemed too gory and cut out and stored; in many cases the scenes were not even filmed!!! You can't pull a rabbit out of a hat in these cases. if isn't wasn't even filmed, how is it going to turn up in a vault somewhere??

As for the naysayers...I'm not sure who is naysaying. I just would like the fans to know some of the facts they may not be aware of, and I personally have high hopes for whatever is going to happen.


By the way, since you are such a fan of My Bloody Valentine, I'm sure you know that film was picked up much the same way F13th was, right? Again, no studio intervention during shooting.

Cheers,
Erik

This is a ongoing article from Hysteria,has'nt been updated since last year. Yet at least this gets you pretty much up to date on the issue with MBV.
Interesting..Paramount had the uncut print..& cut it themselves into R rated shape!


Pretty interesting information & also proves you can't believe everything you hear. The rumors that George did not care for the film & is not interested in a uncut release are false. In fact back in a 1995 issue of Fangoria discussing his career. He mentions fondly how he'd love to restore the film to it's true form & that for the most part,the film turned out good despite the rushed production & censorship.

Since the footage exists. It's in Paramounts hands whether to make s much $$ as possible off the film with a uncut release..or just lose $$ which they wasted on the current dvd.

So until then i will continue to be patient & live without the dvd unless a worthy version is released since 'im tired of letting studios run over us with inferior product expecting us to shell out $$ for them. Paramount seems to have gotten the idea finally with F13th,since MBV is another favorite for most Friday fans. A uncut release could be profitable. Yet we'll have to wait & see what becomes of it.

I'm confused. What did this have to do with Friday the 13th?
I thought we had already established that Paramount doesn't (or has never before, anyway) release unrated material...what's the revelation about My Bloody Valentine that was contained in that post?

Umm did you read it clearly compared to your last reply?


1-while it was a 'print' deal as with the F13th films. They received the uncut version of MBV,yet since it kept getting a X..the studio cut the film until it got an R(without the directors involvement). That somewhat goes against the 'it was cut before the studio recieved a print & thus should not have the footage' arguement.

2- the footage was thought to be lost forever,but it all of a sudden turned up recently. Meanwhile everyone claimed over the years,that the footage in fact does not exist anymore since no ones ever seen it. Same holds true with what people say about the F13th films. Yet i betcha the uncut footage will turn up in one form or another,if it has'nt already..& someones keeping quiet about it.

3-if by some chance Paramount chooses to release uncut versions of the F13th films. MBV may stand a chance at uncut release also given the sales are good enough showing there is $ to be made with uncut releases.


So uncut F13th's could mean good news to other films the studio holds hostage in censorship hell,if they choose to come out there shell & restore the films that is.

Nobody made that argument.

Now, about reading posts 'clearly'...

I never said that Paramount received a print and that was it. The original 1980 theatrical release WAS a different cut from the Jap LD version (which is the uncut version of the film).
My point was that Sean Cunningham and crew didn't say "well, they'll never allow us to do this, let's cut it", or not film it...etc. They had control over what was shot and then cut together, UNTIL it was picked up by Paramount, same deal with My Bloody Valentine. The entire point of my post (which was apparently lost) is that because the first film (and MBV, although I'm trying to get away fron this turning into a thread about that film) was shot without studio interference at the outset, thus more gore footage was actually shot to begin with.
What happened after it was picked up by the studio is not a debate.

If you'll read my post, it was obvious that I said that Georgetown didn't have a studio breathing down their necks, so they shotwhatever they wanted. After Paramount picked it up for distribution, of course they (the studio) had control over the edits, and after they started funding the series entirely, actual footage that was filmed was closely monitored, thereby not allowing the filmmakers to shoot with impunity.

Cheers,
Erik

Ok..but the footage was still shot..& much of it was submitted to the MPAA just to see what rating it would get. Not surprisingly,they all got X's until being cut.

In fact if you can find that Fangoria article on part 6's cuts. It even mentions sending the uncut version in for review knowing full well it would get a X. They decided "what the hell..lets give it to them!"..& of course they said "X..& oh yeah..the hearts gotta go!"(that brief heart shot which remained in the film,while the rest of the gory scene was hacked out).

So while some kills were altered in filming trying to make them less graphic. They were still pretty gory..& of course cut down severely to get a R.

So uncut versions if the footage still exists are possible. Yet trying to say that what was left in the R rated versions was all that was filmed is ridiculous.

Now maybe it's only a few seconds per kill scene. Yet a few seconds adds up in the long run..& sometimes adds more impact to the sequences.

Part 5 could really be helped with a uncut release. All the zooming in to obscure slit throats..& cut aways to not show any gore really hurt the film & brought it down to tv level editing. Yet again the footage was originally shot without any footage zoomed in,& not as many cutaways to tone down the kills.

part 7 also suffered tremendously as well. Yet whats left in the R version is not the 'real' film. It's PG-13 compared to what it was originally like had the effects been intact. Thats another film that would be helped immensely with a uncut release. Since the FX were the main attraction. Once you cut all that out. You loose much of the impact the film was meant to have.

what Parmount needs to do is remaster them, make them unrated, give them DTS tracks, and have Betsy Palmer and Kane Hodder commentaries.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Julie Walker

So uncut versions if the footage still exists are possible. Yet trying to say that what was left in the R rated versions was all that was filmed is ridiculous.

Now maybe it's only a few seconds per kill scene. Yet a few seconds adds up in the long run..& sometimes adds more impact to the sequences.

Please don't put words in my mouth.
I never said R-rated footage was that's all that was shot for part 6!
While it was in the Fangoria articles, I talked to Tom McLoughlin last week...I'm pretty sure I know what he shot (unless he was lying to me) Which is why I never mentioned anything about part 6 in my posts about footage not shot!
Please read 'em before you criticize them


Part 5 could really be helped with a uncut release. All the zooming in to obscure slit throats..& cut aways to not show any gore really hurt the film & brought it down to tv level editing. Yet again the footage was originally shot without any footage zoomed in,& not as many cutaways to tone down the kills.

And what is your source for this info that "the footage was originally shot without any footage zoomed in,& not as many cutaways to tone down the kills"?
According to makeup man David Miller (it may not have been him, but I haven't talked to him in a while, and the names get jumbled) he lamented WHILE SHOOTING that the film wasn't as graphic as some of the others in the series, and that fans may be dissapointed. Also according to Tiffany Helm, who supplied me with some pictures of her original death scene along with more info about the shoot, said they knew ON SET that her death wouldn't make it and didn't even submit it to the MPAA. Again, Frank Mancuso Jr., doing his own pre-emptive editing. If your sources are closer to the facts then mine, then by all means, lay it on me.

part 7 also suffered tremendously as well. Yet whats left in the R version is not the 'real' film. It's PG-13 compared to what it was originally like had the effects been intact. Thats another film that would be helped immensely with a uncut release. Since the FX were the main attraction. Once you cut all that out. You loose much of the impact the film was meant to have.

You keep mentioneing Part VII...WE KNOW the footage exists for this film, and that is sucks in it's current state.
What's the point of re-hashing that?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DVD_O_Rama

Quote:

Originally posted by Julie Walker

So uncut versions if the footage still exists are possible. Yet trying to say that what was left in the R rated versions was all that was filmed is ridiculous.

Now maybe it's only a few seconds per kill scene. Yet a few seconds adds up in the long run..& sometimes adds more impact to the sequences.

Please don't put words in my mouth.
I never said R-rated footage was that's all that was shot for part 6!
While it was in the Fangoria articles, I talked to Tom McLoughlin last week...I'm pretty sure I know what he shot (unless he was lying to me) Which is why I never mentioned anything about part 6 in my posts about footage not shot!
Please read 'em before you criticize them

Well since we are talking about the entire series in general. Whats the matter if i bring up specific sequels as examples?

Also what did Tom tell you? Inquiring minds want to know once & for all!

Quote:

And what is your source for this info that "the footage was originally shot without any footage zoomed in,& not as many cutaways to tone down the kills"?
According to makeup man David Miller (it may not have been him, but I haven't talked to him in a while, and the names get jumbled) he lamented WHILE SHOOTING that the film wasn't as graphic as some of the others in the series, and that fans may be dissapointed. Also according to Tiffany Helm, who supplied me with some pictures of her original death scene along with more info about the shoot, said they knew ON SET that her death wouldn't make it and didn't even submit it to the MPAA. Again, Frank Mancuso Jr., doing his own pre-emptive editing. If your sources are closer to the facts then mine, then by all means, lay it on me.

Well from all the reports from the old Fangoria articles,to Joe Bob Briggs discussing it on Monstervision(the director was a exploitation filmmaker who never shyed away from gore or nudity..hence being more rampant in this sequel than the others for better or worse) a few years back. All signs seemed to indicate that the film was originally very violent..but suffered severe cuts before earing a R & it shows in the current version.

Also 'uncut' photos of the punk getting his throat slit are viewable on some websites. This exact shot in the film is zoomed in once the machete reaches his neck. It does not appear to be intentionally zoomed in,but more of "ok..this is X rated..crop it.so we can get are R!" type of editing job as with every other kill in the film. Also this sequence had a very brief couple frames of more blood than the R version in the bootleg release titled "Version 2". While the sequence is still zoomed in for the most part,a brief few frames are at it's normal postion,showing blood spurt out of his neck just as he falls over on the steering wheel. In the R version,every last drop of blood/throat slicing is cut offscreen! Of course the irony is.."Version 2" is even more heavily edited than the R version missing out on all the cussing,some nudity..& a couple nude sequences cut completly & reedited & yeah all the other gore sequences are still heavily cut!


Another uncut photo is the women who gets macheted on her bed. The picture shows the machete bursting out of her chest as she screams in pain as blood splatters everywhere! In the R version,you only see a very brief in & out of the machete under the bed.

Anyway the footage was filmed in some form or another,but still cut to get a R instead of X. It would be great to see the X rated version finally.

Originally posted by Julie Walker
Also what did Tom tell you? Inquiring minds want to know once & for all!

I told Tom about my wishes for a Director's Cut of Jason Lives, and wanted to know what actually exists for the film in the way of gore footage. I wanted to get his stamp of approval for a campaign to get the film released as we want to see it. I will be talking again with him shortly, and I hope to have some good news. He is currently editing his feature about the beltway snipers for USA Network, and it should be finished soon. It was originally entitled 'Beltway' but will probably be re-titled, according to Tom.

Well from all the reports from the old Fangoria articles,to Joe Bob Briggs discussing it on Monstervision(the director was a exploitation filmmaker who never shyed away from gore or nudity..hence being more rampant in this sequel than the others for better or worse) a few years back. All signs seemed to indicate that the film was originally very violent..but suffered severe cuts before earing a R & it shows in the current version.


Danny Steinmann was in fact a director of adult and exploitation films before doing The Unseen and Savage Streets, so I'm sure that's where Joe Bob (another great guy) was coming from.
As far as stills in Fango and the like: in-production stills are not an indicator of film footage that was shot. Sure, there was stuff chopped out of part V, but it's not a bloodbath by any means. (again, according to David Miller, alot of the kills were FILMED as reveals)

Cheers,
Erik

When a scene cuts really quickly away from something, and that something turns up in photograph form in Fangoria, then it's pretty safe to assume this is how filming went and the MPAA made some cuts. Did they take a photo of the kid on the bike in 5 getting his head cut off and film everything but that? It really makes no sense. The girl in part 8 that's killed in the shower- her kill is a cutaway but it seems to have been filmed that way. That's something you could argue there may be nothing to offer in uncut form.
Paramount were not making any calls, because according to Mancuso: "The first Friday film was made without Paramount's knowledge and subsequently bought by the studio. Since then, it's become a matter of the movie being made, Paramount buying it and then releasing it..... There are all kinds of legal things that are particular to a Friday film. The major reason is that these are all non-union films. The bottom line is that Paramount can't get involved in these movies in an upfront way." Basically, Paramount didn't care what was being filmed in the woods for 3 million dollars and bought the film when it was done. Mancuso describes his job with the films post- part 4 as "I was only involved in the story, director and cast selection by that point." What he did within these films is never fully explained, he was most likely the middle man between Paramount and whoever was throwing together the latest movie. He also goes on to say that the films have become less violent due to the MPAA and, in speaking of part 8, says they decided this time to go more larger-than-life and fantasy since they know gore isn't going to make it. And it's obvious part 8 was filmed that way.
Part 1- very little trimmed, available in other countries
Part 2- submitted to MPAA over and over, obviously stuff got cut. One cut scene I know of is the reaction shot to the couple speared on the bed (which is on the back cover of the VHS!), a number of other kills are blatantly trimmed.
Part 3&4- couple of minor trims
Part 5- some kills are zoomed in on so you don't see the gore (Italian stereotype who gets it in the car, for example). These were obviously not filmed this way. Other kills are blacked out unnaturally (girl laying on floor by car), while others just cut away- some of which have been seen in Fangoria- like their cover with the stuttering kid who's axed in the face.
Part 6- all kills filmed for all ratings, least bloody make it.
Part 7- as we are all well aware of, everything cut.
Part 8- Probably some trims for old times sake, but filmed bloodless for the most part, since it will all be cut anyway. This is, IMO, the only situation open for argument.

On the matter of the TV footage: this IS the same as gore, because it's extra crap that was sitting around- just like gore shots- that Paramount was able to find when needed. What's the difference? None of it was filmed to specifically be TV footage. Paramount like to keep the running time around 90 mins so they could have as many showings per theatre as possible.

My rant opens an interesting question. If Paramount owned the rights, why continue the process of them being made "independently" and then sold to Paramount? What was the benifit of this?

Another image from part 5 i've found online on one of the various Friday sites out there. Was a shot of Juniors severed head,with the killers feet inches away,bloody machete in view. Also on the back of the VHS box is a shot of the cleaver touching his throat. Of course in the film itself is a shot from JR's POV as machete comes out in front of him,it then abruptly cuts to a brief bloodless shot of the head on the ground(i seem to recall..or maybe that was cut also?). Anyway the killer standing near the head..& then walking off to kill his mom is missing(from the looks of the photo). That would have added another layer of creepiness to the sequence. Sure the film is extremely campy(& hilarious i might add)..& not really scary at all. Yet has some brief effective scare moments,hampered by the extensive cuts.


As for the extent of some kills not being filmed at all & changed from the original script. Sure some kills may have been dropped. Part 6 was originally supposed to have a cop litterally getting his face ripped off by Jason leaving his shull with a surprised look on his face drop dead. Yet it was dropped since theres no way it would pass by the MPAA. Yet they still went all out on many of the kill scenes knowing fullwell,much of it won't make it without a X rating. Yet they might as well have fun with it..& try there best to fight the MPAA. Yet just in case,film the sequences various ways,to not destroy the flow to much.

Yet even with the alterations to some of the original kill ideas. The stuff still had to be cut!..which proves how stupid & impossible the MPAA really are. One sequence that is very creepy is the couple stranded in the car(Toms wife plays the victim). Anyway the guy gets speared & lifted up into the air & tossed right over Jasons shoulders,where it would then show him crunched in the bushes all broken up. This is the 'toned' down version of what was originally planned! Originally they had the idea of having the guy quivering on the pole,slide down it,leaving his insides on it..& then tossed aside!

Of course the 'toned' down version of the scene was all cut out,with nothing but a cut away to blood splashing the windshield..& very brief footage of the guys legs twirling in the air. Yet the aftermath was gone also.

Meanwhile for the womens death. The aftermath showing the bloody wounds was completley cut out. Now i don't know if they actually show the pole raming straight through her skull in uncut form or not(it's quite effective the way the scenes edited anyway)..yet the aftermath would lead to even more nastiness & a unsettling atmosphere,which the R version seems to shy away from because of the massive cuts.

Also i would love to see the triple decapitation where you see the heads fly straight off there shoulders in a bloody mess. In the current form,you don't even see the aftermath. The heads just disapear & briefly see 3 headless bodies fall to the ground.


Anyway i still love part 6..& feel it's the perfect mix of humor,horror..& non-stop thrills. Pure fun from begining to end. Only hurt by the cuts to every kill sequence. Yet this is how horror films(that are not meant to be 'serious') should be made. People today could learn from this. If you put in alot of style,enthusiasm & energy. You can create one hell of a blast. Yet todays horror is mostly pathetic & lacks everything that makes the older ones so memorable.

I think Jasons Lives is a masterpiece of horror. This is how too make a 'fun' horror film. To many films today take themselves to seriously,even when they're supposed to be 'fun',not high art..& thats what has killed the horror genre mostly.


I would go so far to say that along with the original,Jason Lives is a important part of horror history

I've beaten this dead horse enough, so i'm going to throw this out and take a break from the thread (no applause, just throw money).

Two points:

I keep being misquoted saying that I'm claiming all this gore footage was never filmed, which is false (In some cases, yes it was shot...but not all the time. I stand by that comment, and by my sources, as they were closer then any of us ever were)

And secondly...a still in Fango means nothing!!!
If you are going by that logic that "because the picture is there the footage is there", go and find the scene in Evil Dead where Ash is battiling the undead skeletons with a chainsaw (cover of Fango #23, to be exact) and also the scene from the original poster campaign that shows the hand reaching out of the ground toward the girl.

They were in Fango, so they must have been filmed, right???

End transmission.

I can't compare to Evil Dead because I know little about those movies. Just because a photo turns up in Fangoria does not mean something was filmed- but were they just photographing the kills in part 5 for the fun of it and not filming it, or is it safe to assume most of that stuff were stills from the movie that didn't make it? A lot of the stuff cut from 5 was allowed in 1-4 (machette to face for example) so there was no reason for the producers to be self censoring to that extent yet. The photo of Tiffany Helm with fake blood between her legs offers zero evidence if that kill was video taped or not, especially since she does not appear to be in character or on the set. Regardless, each film has cuts- did Paramount save anything is the question. Apparently they feel they have something to offer SE DVDs.

Just to shed a little more light on the Tiffany Helm kill- a guy over at the F13 message board has been posting about a "Crystal Lake Memories" book that he is in the process of writing which will include interviews with numerous cast & crew members from all the films. He's been answering questions here and there, and he says Tiffany remembers filming the machette to the crotch kill. That helps clear that up, now; does Paramount have it or would they even use it (still pretty tastelss today) and where would it even go...

One thing to think about the 'crotch' kill in part 5. How come that is more offensive,than say the 'split in half..groin first' from part 3..or even the speargun to the groin in part 4? Sure it's men being killed that way. Yet how come it is more offensive when it happens to a woman?

Just a interesting thing to think about.

Anyway since part 5 is very tasteless. i'm sure the scene would come off as very offensive. Still i would'nt mind seeing it in the film. In fact ,the uncut version of part 5 should be titled the "Bad Taste Edition'

The one thing I want the most... Release Pt 3 in 3-D !!!

"Just when I think I'm out...they pull me back in"

Ok, nobody pulled me back in the thread, but since I've been setting up interviews with Friday the 13th alumni all night, I figured I shed some light on..well the post that shed light on....anyway.

Yes, the Tiffany Helm scene was filmed. I thought I mentioned that already when I said she gave me some pictures of it??

Danny Steinmann was the one who pulled the plug on her death scene as he knew it would never get past the censors for the theatrical release.
I'll ask Tom Morga what he remembers about it, and see if I can determine if the footage was saved or not.

Anyway, the person writing the book is Peter Bracke from DVD File. Hell of a nice guy, and almost as dedicated a F13th fan as me

Cheers,
Erik