Any chance of a "fixed" texas chainsaw massacre dvd?
05-20-03, 03:28 PM
#1
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Any chance of a "fixed" texas chainsaw massacre dvd?
from thedigitalbits.com
Don May, Jr.: Well, they used Elite's transfer. But it's not really our transfer. I mean it is, but not really... if that makes any sense. Look at the DVD and the laserdisc side by side, and you will see a bunch of things different with them. The DVD was made from the transfer we did that didn't have any digital line removal - which we did do on the transfer we put out on laserdisc. Also, there is a bad optical effect on the DVD. When you look at the scene when Marilyn Burns is getting her fingers sucked on by Grandpa, she passes out. In the film, there is a dissolve that goes from the house to a full moon. On the laserdisc, the dissolve is smooth. It goes from the house to the moon and it's a nice dissolve. But look at the DVD - it "pops" instead of dissolving. The house will dissolve partway, and then POP… the moon appears. No full dissolve. A little back story on this. You see, to do the transfer, we had to make a new 16mm internegative from the original A/B roll negatives for Chainsaw, but there were no timing sheets or optical notes for that at all. RGB Optical went back and made us the new internegative. They had to do it all by hand and one of the dissolves got screwed up, which was something that happens - it's no one's fault. They just had to fix it and I noticed it during the transfer with Tobe. We finished the transfer as is, with the errors, and made a backup onto another digital tape. RGB Optical went back and made a new piece of film for the correct dissolve and we inserted it later on our master. We then sent the master out for line removal. When the project went to Pioneer, they got their hands on the backup tape that wasn't fixed, instead of the real master, I guess. The reason the lines were there was because Chainsaw was stored so horribly. I don't want to accuse any particular facility of storing it badly, but... it was in a brown paper bag just lying in a box. Granted, it was stored in a cold, climate controlled vault, but they could have put it in a better box or something so that it wasn't just laying in there. The movie was - the A/B roll was - put together with film glue and, as it was wrapped on the reel, the glue hardened over time and became imbedded on the reels. The reels were sticking together as they were being unspooled. It was scary. I was like, "Oh no! This may not be usable. This friggin' movie is a classic and the negative is totally ruined!" The glue splice marks near shot changes are what you see on the DVD. Shortly after some of the shot changes, especially the scenes later in the film with Sally running through the house, you will see these lines. When we made the internegative, of course, all those damn lines were printed onto the film. There was nothing we could do about it. We actually sent a reel of the A/B roll to Kodak because they have this chemical that swells the film element to try and remove debris. For this, it just didn't work - they tested a little piece and it swelled, but it wouldn't get rid of the glue. So we had to go back and digitally remove the lines, and we obviously didn't get every single one. Some go by so fast that you miss them, or we had to leave them because of the movement that was on screen. If you digitally remove the line, it would blur the image in the frame. There are a couple of scenes on the laserdisc that have that little blur because we tried to remove the line. I mean, what's the trade off? You either have white lines that go across the screen or you have blurs. We had to make a judgment call, and some stayed and some went. The DVD has ALL of the lines - all 180 of 190 of them - still present on the letterboxed image and that's disgusting to me. The funny thing is, the line removal place is credited on the DVD, but there's no line removal on it!
So in other words they took the wrong master and not the correct one. Is there a chance that we might see this fully restored on dvd. Imo it looks pretty bad, since I watched it for the first time last night.
Don May, Jr.: Well, they used Elite's transfer. But it's not really our transfer. I mean it is, but not really... if that makes any sense. Look at the DVD and the laserdisc side by side, and you will see a bunch of things different with them. The DVD was made from the transfer we did that didn't have any digital line removal - which we did do on the transfer we put out on laserdisc. Also, there is a bad optical effect on the DVD. When you look at the scene when Marilyn Burns is getting her fingers sucked on by Grandpa, she passes out. In the film, there is a dissolve that goes from the house to a full moon. On the laserdisc, the dissolve is smooth. It goes from the house to the moon and it's a nice dissolve. But look at the DVD - it "pops" instead of dissolving. The house will dissolve partway, and then POP… the moon appears. No full dissolve. A little back story on this. You see, to do the transfer, we had to make a new 16mm internegative from the original A/B roll negatives for Chainsaw, but there were no timing sheets or optical notes for that at all. RGB Optical went back and made us the new internegative. They had to do it all by hand and one of the dissolves got screwed up, which was something that happens - it's no one's fault. They just had to fix it and I noticed it during the transfer with Tobe. We finished the transfer as is, with the errors, and made a backup onto another digital tape. RGB Optical went back and made a new piece of film for the correct dissolve and we inserted it later on our master. We then sent the master out for line removal. When the project went to Pioneer, they got their hands on the backup tape that wasn't fixed, instead of the real master, I guess. The reason the lines were there was because Chainsaw was stored so horribly. I don't want to accuse any particular facility of storing it badly, but... it was in a brown paper bag just lying in a box. Granted, it was stored in a cold, climate controlled vault, but they could have put it in a better box or something so that it wasn't just laying in there. The movie was - the A/B roll was - put together with film glue and, as it was wrapped on the reel, the glue hardened over time and became imbedded on the reels. The reels were sticking together as they were being unspooled. It was scary. I was like, "Oh no! This may not be usable. This friggin' movie is a classic and the negative is totally ruined!" The glue splice marks near shot changes are what you see on the DVD. Shortly after some of the shot changes, especially the scenes later in the film with Sally running through the house, you will see these lines. When we made the internegative, of course, all those damn lines were printed onto the film. There was nothing we could do about it. We actually sent a reel of the A/B roll to Kodak because they have this chemical that swells the film element to try and remove debris. For this, it just didn't work - they tested a little piece and it swelled, but it wouldn't get rid of the glue. So we had to go back and digitally remove the lines, and we obviously didn't get every single one. Some go by so fast that you miss them, or we had to leave them because of the movement that was on screen. If you digitally remove the line, it would blur the image in the frame. There are a couple of scenes on the laserdisc that have that little blur because we tried to remove the line. I mean, what's the trade off? You either have white lines that go across the screen or you have blurs. We had to make a judgment call, and some stayed and some went. The DVD has ALL of the lines - all 180 of 190 of them - still present on the letterboxed image and that's disgusting to me. The funny thing is, the line removal place is credited on the DVD, but there's no line removal on it!
So in other words they took the wrong master and not the correct one. Is there a chance that we might see this fully restored on dvd. Imo it looks pretty bad, since I watched it for the first time last night.
05-21-03, 08:37 PM
#2
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
I didn't watch entire movie last night. I did tonight and I think that this movie looks better with the scatches and the bad lighting. It seemed more sick and disturbing with all of the imperfections.
05-21-03, 10:32 PM
#3
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Rypro 525
II think that this movie looks better with the scatches and the bad lighting. It seemed more sick and disturbing with all of the imperfections.
II think that this movie looks better with the scatches and the bad lighting. It seemed more sick and disturbing with all of the imperfections.
Because, I can't imagine anyone who has preferring the DVD. I've seen (and owned) both... the LD is significantly better.
05-21-03, 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Rypro 525
I didn't watch entire movie last night. I did tonight and I think that this movie looks better with the scatches and the bad lighting. It seemed more sick and disturbing with all of the imperfections.
I didn't watch entire movie last night. I did tonight and I think that this movie looks better with the scatches and the bad lighting. It seemed more sick and disturbing with all of the imperfections.
Exactly right. Part of the creepiness of a film like this is the bad quality of the image. It would be like colorizing Night of the Living Dead or remastering Blair Witch Project with DTS surround sound. It might look or sound prettier, but it would ruin the atmosphere of the films.
05-22-03, 01:44 AM
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No, it's not like colorizing NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. It's like restoring NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD and making it look ten times better than the murky and scratched to hell public domain tapes that we were all used to. Of course, Elite did this for us as well with their first laserdisc release and later on DVD. I'm sorry, but scratches and lines that came from storing the negative improperly do not make the movie "look better."
05-22-03, 02:32 AM
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Well hey, whatever makes you guys happy.
I admit it's been a couple months since I watched my Pioneer SE version, but I don't recall it being quite as bad as you guys describe. Anyway, I think I'll just stick with it thank you.
I admit it's been a couple months since I watched my Pioneer SE version, but I don't recall it being quite as bad as you guys describe. Anyway, I think I'll just stick with it thank you.
05-22-03, 06:13 AM
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If they ever put the ld version on dvd, or find and release the "fixed" master that I mentioned earlier, I might rent it to see how much better it supposingly is.
05-22-03, 11:42 AM
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i should be getting this saturday through netflix, i've never seen the entire thing. i'm really interested to see just how bad it looks, but as i said i've never seen the whole thing so it probably won't be a big deal.
05-22-03, 11:45 AM
#9
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Its not THAT bad. Yeah there are a few scratches, a little soft, what seems like lots of missing frames, and halfway fading colors, but there are no grain issues, even though the flick has piss poor lighting.
05-22-03, 12:19 PM
#10
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by malkmuz
i'm really interested to see just how bad it looks, but as i said i've never seen the whole thing so it probably won't be a big deal.
i'm really interested to see just how bad it looks, but as i said i've never seen the whole thing so it probably won't be a big deal.
The condition of the existing DVD is just annoying because it's due to a mistake -- they had the rights to the LD master and used the wrong version to transfer to DVD.
05-22-03, 12:26 PM
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It doesn't look that bad, certainly worth watching and still one of the very best scares going.
But they f'd up the DVD, no two ways about it. I think enough time has passed for there to be a DVD featuring the restored print and anamorphically enhanced. As Sartana notes above, the restored print of "Night of the Living Dead" certainly didn't ruin the atmosphere of that film, even though we'd always previously seen it looking like a sixteenth generation VHS dupe that'd been soaking for years in dirty bathwater.
But they f'd up the DVD, no two ways about it. I think enough time has passed for there to be a DVD featuring the restored print and anamorphically enhanced. As Sartana notes above, the restored print of "Night of the Living Dead" certainly didn't ruin the atmosphere of that film, even though we'd always previously seen it looking like a sixteenth generation VHS dupe that'd been soaking for years in dirty bathwater.
05-22-03, 12:48 PM
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I like my old Horror/slashers with the old look,I like that it looks like your seeing it for the first time on the release day,same for my old westerns that I like,I like the mono and scratchy look just for these types of movies.
05-22-03, 01:03 PM
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I don't think the DVD transfer ruins the mood of TCM. The image just doesn't look very solid - which I read is also a result of Pioneer using the wrong master. There's an unstable, "ghosty" quality to the image, most noticable during quick movements - almost like it was shot on video and (badly) transferred to film. There's a similar effect on the Tetsuo II Body Hammer DVD.
I'd welcome a new transfer of this using the LD transfer, if only to compare to decide which was better.
And, if you enjoy the old grainy look of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, just find a VHS copy. It might even get some of those tape distortion lines in it over time, if you're lucky!
I'd welcome a new transfer of this using the LD transfer, if only to compare to decide which was better.
And, if you enjoy the old grainy look of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, just find a VHS copy. It might even get some of those tape distortion lines in it over time, if you're lucky!
Last edited by ehonauer; 05-22-03 at 01:06 PM.
05-22-03, 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by DVDHO
I like my old Horror/slashers with the old look,I like that it looks like your seeing it for the first time on the release day,same for my old westerns that I like,I like the mono and scratchy look just for these types of movies.
I like my old Horror/slashers with the old look,I like that it looks like your seeing it for the first time on the release day,same for my old westerns that I like,I like the mono and scratchy look just for these types of movies.
05-27-03, 07:30 PM
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i finally got around to watching the whole thing, and it is amazing. it is a tad dark, but perhaps this is a result of poor filming? it doesn't really detract from the experience for me at all. but seeing as i don't have a lot of money to throw around on dvds right now, i'll probably wait awhile to pick it up. if a new + better version came out, i'd snag that. great movie.
