Just received the Killer winstar edition...here's the scoop: the video is basically the exact same transfer as the criterion as is the audio. This is a GOOD THING people. This movie was never in surround sound and DOESNT BELONG THAT WAY. You don't know PAIN till you watch the asian 5.1 version of the Killer. Absolutely terrible! Anyway, I just received the Criterion Killer in a trade for my collection but I am comfortable about not having to open it because the Winstar edition has everything I could ask for, a good commentary and decent menus. This isn't anamorphic enhanced, but the transfer of the film is so mediocre that I doubt it would gain much help by the remastering. The Criterion Killer isn't anamorphic either. All an all, a FINE effort by the normally crappy Winstar AHEM Fox Lorber.

Thanks for the review. I just got a shipping email on the Killer/Hard Boiled set. Not really my kind of movie but for 30.00, I would check it out.

I guess alot of negative replys will be made to this topic from what I have seen elsewhere. I just hope the Disc's are not loose. I received Rocky Horror Picture Show and both disc's were loose but not scratched.

Just got mine also.

Love the way they "bullet timed" the menu for The Killer.

Yep, I got the set too.
Though I was initially worried after reading a bad review about the transfers, I was relieved to see that they're really not bad. I had seen both of these films on the big screen and these dvds do a good job with what was never that pristine in the first place. The motion menus are neat too.
One mistake on THE KILLER's menu selection is that one chapter shows a scene from HARD-BOILED. How odd. Did they have these two dvds right next to each other as they were working on them.
In any case, I think it's great that people can finally get a hold of two classic John Woo films. I challenge you to find more slow motion gunfights in other movie.
rodp

Wait, you have the Criterion Killer yet you don't plan to ever watch it and instead watch the Winstar version which isn't really any better in any way. Sounds like a waste of a collection.

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"I've done some...questionable things, but nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for."

- Blade Runner

quote:<HR>Originally posted by bluemagic:
Wait, you have the Criterion Killer yet you don't plan to ever watch it and instead watch the Winstar version which isn't really any better in any way. Sounds like a waste of a collection.

<HR>

Obviously, he's going to hold onto it for a future trade or sell-off on ebay, whereby leaving it unopened will make it more valuable. Sounds like you're just jealous you don't have a Criterion of The Killer. I know I am!

I think it is ridiculous to not open any DVD. Who cares about selling them later? Just open it and enjoy it!

I think it is ridiculous to not open any DVD. Who cares about selling them later? Just open it and enjoy it!

This thread needs a bump anyway...I'd like to hear a couple more people give reviews of the picture and sound. I have been waiting to read a good review before I pick up The Killer.

So how are the subtitles? I have the HK version, and some of the mistakes are laughable. The 5.1 doesn't bother me too much; it's kind of funny how the often quiet surrounds suddenly perk up with random sounds though.

However, before I would even consider "upgrading" to a Fox Lorber product (Is this the first time that this has been said in the history of the English language? ) I would wait for a 16:9 xfer.

I have rented the Fox Lorber version of The Killer on VHS and the subtitles sucked. The VHS uses the Mickey Mouse and Dumbo nick names rather than the more colorfull origional nicknames. And many lines of dialogue in the subtitles don't make sense due to bad translation. How are the subs on the new DVD?

Way before the Killer came out on video, shortly after it made a splash in Hong Kong, The Killer had its American home preimire (unless you had a bootleg i guess) on Cinemax. i was lucky enough to be one of those people who were the first initiated to the modern John Woo fan club. i can remember most of my high school friends hating it, saying it was ridiculous, silly. Well, needless to say, by 1996 with all the Woo hype, they suddenly became fans, and i got no props for trying to clue them in a whole five to six years earlier. Screw em' i dont hang out with them anymore anyway. At least i saw the hipness.

That said, i have three copies of The Killer- back when i originally taped it off of Cinemax ten years ago, the old vhs release, and now the Winstar DVD. From what i can tell they all have different subs. My original copy has what i guess is the original theatrical subs.

The Fox Lorber team shows that they are on the road to redemption. Sure the print is a little spotty and soft, but you'd be hard pressed to find an HK release that wasnt, especially one that is ten years old. The image is clearer than it ever has been and probably ever will be. The sound is fine. The animated menu is amusing. I only listened to about ten minutes of the commentary (i'll get around to it someday; i'm just not real big on commentary), but what i heard, John Woo describing growing up- the city being his Hell, church being his Heaven, and the movie theatre being his Dreams, was great. i am very happy with this DVD, they did a great job.

Finally, i would like to give thanks to the Cinemax of the early 90's for having its programming being themed with a diffeent genre each night of the week, Horror Night, Suspense/Mystery Night, Drama Night, Comedy Night, Action Night, Vanguard Night, and, mostly, Foreign Night, because without it i wouldnt have been exposed to the Killer when i was.

[This message has been edited by iaido (edited October 15, 2000).]

BTW, I think I'll go and watch MY copy of the Criterion Killer. Maybe a double feature with the Criterion Hard-Boiled, hehe.

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"I've done some...questionable things, but nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for."

- Blade Runner

iadio,
Could you give more info on the subs. Does the new DVD have the correct nicknames. Are the subs understandable. I found the VHS subs a little off (translation too literal would be my diagnosis).

The subs are literate in perfectly correct English, clear, and held long enough to read. Dumbo and Mickey Mouse are the nicknames. What are they suppose to be?

I was very pleased with this print. A few reels looked excellent, but overall it was slightly soft. I don't think anyone will be dissappointed unless they're comparing it to current American films. Though the music can be a little tinny and it occasionally distorted slightly (as in many Asian films), the sound was acceptable. I also enjoyed the essay by film critic David Chute (an early and tireless supporter of Hong Kong cinema). I haven't got to the Woo commentary yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

On the Criterion - instead of the "Mickey Mouse/Dumbo" it's "Butthead/Numbnuts" and Chow Yun Fat's character is called John instead of Jeffrey(Woo's even calls Jeffrey on the commmentary).

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Give a guy a gun, he thinks he's Superman. Give him two and he thinks he's God.

My Addiction

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Pants:
iadio,
Could you give more info on the subs. Does the new DVD have the correct nicknames. Are the subs understandable. I found the VHS subs a little off (translation too literal would be my diagnosis).<HR>

As far as i can tell (and this is by memory mind you, i havent literally compared the two) it does feel different. Of course, a line or two here and there still looks awkward, but overall, it felt better, smarter. And, yeah, they are Mickey Mouse and Dumbo again. i swear on my oldest copy he is called just Jeff, not Jeffery, i need to fish that copy out and see for sure.

Bottom line:

If I have never seen The Killer, but loved Hard Boiled, which DVD should I buy? It doesn't sound like I will notice the different subtitle changes - and some say the mono version is fine. What features does the Criterion have over the Fox Lorber?
Thanks!

Eric

I don't understand why they call cyf jeff when the people in the movie calls him John!

Anyways regarding the dumbo/mickey and butthead/numbnuts nicknames, I don't think either of them are the correct translation. My cantonese is not upto par but I think its more like "shrimp head" and "small ??<something>" both possibly slang for the guys manhood!

DVD~Demonoid: Both movies are great. I would call them both action-dramas, Hard Boiled a little bit heavier on the action, and The Killer a little bit heavier on the drama.

There is still one movie by John Woo that I'm waiting for: Bullet in the Head. It's one of the best movies I've seen, and surpasses both HB and K in sense of drama and action. The story is really deep and meaningful. Some say it was meant to be Bullet in the Head, part 3, taking place in Vietnam. Anyone who has seen Deer Hunter and liked that one and also likes John Woo flick, will love this one. I would actually just call it John Woo's Deer Hunter.

I'm still waiting for John Woo's Star Wars.



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Sleeper - dreaming life away -

In regards to the CYF character name(s) John/Jeffrey - Like I posted earlier - On the criterion version CYF is called John but the on commentary John Woo calls his character Jeffrey(Jeff) - also, I dug up my 7 year old copy of The Killer and on the tape CYF character is called Jeffrey/Jeff(for short). Also, check out IMDB description of THE KILLER.

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Give a guy a gun, he thinks he's Superman. Give him two and he thinks he's God.

My Addiction