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Getting 6.1 from a second receiver question

Old 08-17-00, 05:15 PM
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I think I have the gist of this right but would like verification: So I use the pre-amp output for the rear channels... using RCA cables (?)... then I use the old Pro Logic receiver input as what? DVD/LD input? CD input? So I can now use a set of rears from the input source? Do I set the Pro Logic receiver to DPL or Stereo?
So my understanding without the questions above would router like this:
DD pre-out> via RCA> DPL reciever DVD in> rear speakers.
Yes? No?
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Old 08-17-00, 05:56 PM
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All I can say is ... I didn't understand exactly what you were asking.... So I'm sorry I can't really help you... If there's anyway you can re-word that whole thing I might be able to help... Explain it to me like I'm a 4 year old....

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Old 08-17-00, 07:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jpcamb:
So I use the pre-amp output for the rear channels... using RCA cables (?)


Yes

quote:
Originally posted by jpcamb:
then I use the old Pro Logic receiver input as what? DVD/LD input? CD input?


Any input you want (on the back panel), as long as you select that input on the receiver.

quote:
Originally posted by jpcamb:
So I can now use a set of rears from the input source? Do I set the Pro Logic receiver to DPL or Stereo?


DPL

quote:
Originally posted by jpcamb:
So my understanding without the questions above would router like this:
DD pre-out> via RCA> DPL reciever DVD in> rear speakers.
Yes? No?



Right, but you'll probably only be using the DPL receiver for the speaker level center channel output for your (new) rear center channel. You'll still use your DD receiver's speaker level outputs for your rear left and rear right.

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Old 08-17-00, 07:51 PM
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Stevevt: If I already have Side Dipole speakers wouldn't I benefit from setting up a second set of rears? I have an old set of CSW speakers that would work nicely. Alternately I have an old small center channel that could also be used for this purpose. I realize that 5.1 is only 1 step below 6.1 i.e. rear center, what happens at 7.1? Isnít that two rears, sides, fronts and center? FWIW I very recently upgraded the rears to the dipole sides so I have the old rears still kickin aroundÖ. Maybe I should have asked about fake 7.1

Oh, and wOlfspyd3r Whats with the sig? I've been curious about that for a bit..
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Old 08-18-00, 02:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jpcamb:
Stevevt: If I already have Side Dipole speakers wouldn't I benefit from setting up a second set of rears? I have an old set of CSW speakers that would work nicely. Alternately I have an old small center channel that could also be used for this purpose.


If you used a second set of rears (and a rear center), then I think we're talking about 8.1. As far as whether this'll be an improvement or not, I'd say it has a better chance for success in a larger room.

quote:
Originally posted by jpcamb:
I realize that 5.1 is only 1 step below 6.1 i.e. rear center, what happens at 7.1? Isnít that two rears, sides, fronts and center? FWIW I very recently upgraded the rears to the dipole sides so I have the old rears still kickin aroundÖ. Maybe I should have asked about fake 7.1


Again, I think that if we make a running total, we're talking about 8.1. I'm sure it'd be easier to describe once you've heard it in your room rather than speculate about it beforehand. Give it a shot and let us know how it sounds.

-S
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Old 08-18-00, 11:22 AM
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So I dragged out the old DPL receiver and used RCA cables to go from the DD Left/Right rear receiver pre outs to LD in on my old receiver. Instead of using the rear speakers out and using the DPL mode, I used the front speaker out and no decoding mode (i.e. Stereo). The New rears were detected in parallel with the sides in the test tone mode.
Lacking a sound meter to calibrate I adjusted the volume as best I could. Threw in the Matrix, played the lobby scene and I have a smallish room and felt the need to duck as bullets whizzed by and ricocheted around the place. My wife was a bit dismayed to see the old receiver and speakers set up again but she was equally impressed. Tonight I may try to add the rear center and see if that works.

Hmmmm I don't know too much about how DPL is decoded, will it ruin it if I add a center channel and go into DPL to split the signal from the rears?

I'll probably try using the "A+B" setting and use the Left B+ and Right B- speaker hookups to run the rear center. That shouldn't damage the speakers right?
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Old 08-18-00, 11:42 AM
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You should just go for 8.1:

Keep all the 5 speakers as is.

Hook up the preamp output for the rear left/right channels (RCA) to the DPL receiver's LD input (or Video input), and then put the DPL receiver in DPL mode, and hook up your 2 old rear speakers to the DPL receiver's left/right speaker outputs, and the old center channel speaker to the DPL receiver's center front channel speaker output.

DPL (Dolby Pro Logic) takes 2 audio channels L (left) and R (right), and matrixes them into 4 channels of sound:

L (left only audio)
C (center comes from in phase L+R audio info)
R (right only audio)
B (back/rear comes from out of phase L-R audio info).

All Dolby Surround soundtracks are encoded so that DPL signal processing can DECODE the Dolby Surround soundtracks into 4 matrixed channels of audio. The drawback is the channels of audio are not discrete, and there is bleed-through among the audio channels. The rear channel is split among 2 rear Left and Right channels in DPL receivers (and usually have a lot less power to drive the rear speakers).



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Old 08-18-00, 05:27 PM
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Thanks Patman!!

I'll give it a whirl tonight and post my thoughts on it.

For the record my set up is a follows:
1'Reciver: Sony DB940
2'Reciver: STDR335 (or something close)
Player: Sony DVPS330 (or something close)
Front: Speakers CSW Ensemble II,
Center: CSW Center channel plus
Sides: CSW surround 5.1,
Sub: CSW BassCube12,
Rear: CSW Ensemble III
Rear Center: CSW Ensemble II shielded speaker

The last two are discontinued to my knowledge. And yes Iím a freak for the CSW gear.

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Old 08-19-00, 04:31 AM
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jpcamp,

From the way I understand it 6.1 works best in this manner.

Run the surround pre-outs to the old DPL receiver using any input DVD/LD/CD.

Hook up the L+R surrounds to to the main L+R speakers on the DPL.

Hook the rear center to the center on the DPL.

Run the DPL receiver in 3 channel mode.
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Old 08-19-00, 02:08 PM
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Well, I tied in the old center as previously described and pseudo 8.1 did sound better than the pseudo 7.1 but only marginaly so. The center seemed to overwhlem the rears, probably due to placement, no easy way to mount the center at the proper hieght. The new rear center as only about 1' above the listenting area and the new rears were quite dim. Also given that my sides are dipole the rears are only a small supplement.
One noteworthy thing is that I had to really crank the DPL receiever up to get a distinct audible sound out of them. I'll try to give a 7.1 vs 8.1 update as I have a chance to watch a few more movies and I'll let you know if its worth it.
Thanks again for the help guys!
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Old 08-20-00, 03:05 AM
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You can split the signal all day long to the surround speakers but it's still a 5.1. The material on the disk can even be 6.1 (EX) but the decoder is only going to produce 5 channels and 1 sub woofer channel. Unless some where in the set up you add a 6.1 (EX) decoder or get a receiver with one you are just adding speakers not channels.
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Old 08-20-00, 12:45 PM
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gdjohnson: Hence my refrence to "pseudo 8.1" There is no way I could afford/justify a 6.1 decoder at this time. I'm just interested in using gear that is gathering dust. The Ensamble III's are far too small to be useful elsewhere and I only have one tv so a second center is not too useful.
What suprises me is the extra dimennsion an extra pair of speakers that are not even processing discrete signal does to the surround sound experience. As Patman pointed out the discrete rear chanel signals are being matried into a signal that is (poorly) split four ways. Which is the reason we find bleed through of sound from the left to right and the reason we all upgraded to 5.1.
For myself it will be a damn long time before I shell out the cake for a new receiver or an add on that processes 6.1/7.1 etc. This not only means upgrading the gear but upgrading the movies and that is beyond my means at this time.
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