DVD & Home Theater Gear Discuss DVD and Home Theater Equipment.

Projector Questions...

Old 09-17-02, 07:49 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,393
Projector Questions...

Okay, so I'm debating whether to go the Rear-projection tv route, or the DLP route, but noplace near me sells DLP's, so I really don't know what to look for, or what to expect in terms of quality. Is one far superior to the other? I like the space-saving aspect of a DLP, while also being able to adjust the overall picture size.

Anyway, I was looking at this dell 3100 MP projector: http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/produc...roj_3100mp.htm

Has anyone seen this in action? I would be using it mainly/only for dvd playback, and I have a coupon that I think I could apply to it and save $500 (if they allow coupons on projectors; the coupon says 20% off peripherals, and they have the projector in the peripherals section.)

Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks.
TheMadMonk is offline  
Old 09-17-02, 08:18 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 2,644
Here is a thread about this pj at AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=dell+3100

I've never seen this projector, but here are my thoughts.

The contract ratio appears very low for home theater work. Other options like the Sharp PG-M20X seem to be much more popular and are in the same price range. Also consider LCD projectors, some of the new ones are getting great reviews.
skar is offline  
Old 09-17-02, 09:46 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,393
Thanks. I've pretty much decided to wait a while longer. I wish technology would just stop advancing so quickly, so that I could buy something and know it would still be decent for at least a few years.
TheMadMonk is offline  
Old 09-17-02, 10:23 PM
  #4  
X
Administrator
 
X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1987
Location: AA-
Posts: 10,676
Originally posted by TheMadMonk
I wish technology would just stop advancing so quickly, so that I could buy something and know it would still be decent for at least a few years.
Or advance quickly enough that you could get what you want for a decent price now.

You don't always have to have the best there always will be, because there will always be better and you'll never be satisfied. Just get something that is a little better than just good enough for you now and your satisfaction will last. But I'm afraid DLPs have a little way to go before they are good enough and you don't have to worry about them.
X is offline  
Old 09-18-02, 02:13 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,647
price/performance wise, i think dlps represent a great value already.
especially when your looking at presentation pjs.
i've had mine for 1 month over a year now, and things that i thought would be a great concern for me at first (like rainbows) are now just a passing thought.
the only real thing that has begun to bug me the last 6 months or so is the noise.
didn't seem bad at first, especially after owning super 8 pjs as a kid, but now i'm seriously going to start looking into building a hushbox.

i got mine from Dell (an NEC which i would recommend-especially for their warranty).
i think throwing an equivilent sized image, a decent dlp (like the NEC- the only presentation priced one i have any familiarity with) will rival a good rp.
just don't underestimate the fun factor of just sheer, large size.
i find watching a movie thats splashed across the wall, is a much different experience than watching a big 'tv'.
ckolchak is offline  
Old 09-18-02, 10:11 AM
  #6  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Re: Projector Questions...

Originally posted by TheMadMonk
Okay, so I'm debating whether to go the Rear-projection tv route, or the DLP route...

I would be using it mainly/only for dvd playback...

Any thoughts or advice?
Thanks.

My thoughts...

If you have the ability (a basement would be nice) to control ambient light and can make the room completely dark then by all means go with a front projector. If you can't, then rear projection is the only choice.

If you go with front or rear projection and you're mainly going to watch DVD's then by all means pick a native 16:9 display... Which the LT-150 is not... I would look at the Panasonic AE300 (LCD, with a native 16:9 native resolution panel) along with a Viewsonic NextVision6, which are both being released late this year... Both of these should run you the same cost as the LT-150 DLP alone... With the LT-150 you would still probably buy the NextVision 6, plus the LT-150 is a fixed lense type, so if you got the LT-150Z (zoom) then it further drives up the cost. I don't want to get into a DLP (rainbow effect) Vs. LCD (perceived greater screendoor effect) debate...which is getting old and tiresome...
jinhopark is offline  
Old 09-18-02, 01:06 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,647
while i think it would be nice to have a 16:9 panel in my pj, i don't know if its all that neccessary.

maybe if my entire movie watching time consisted of post '54 wider aspect ratio movies, but it doesn't.
a good majority, yes, but i still watch plenty of tv material and pre '54 films, for which the 'benefit' of the 16:9 panel would be completely lost.
the LT150 has an anamorphic function, similar (but not the same to) a Sony tv.
in fact, theres four picture settings to cycle thru.
plenty of opions for me.

i'v heard good things about the Panasonic 1000(?).
seems to me, there are quite a few good, inexpensive pjs out now.


but what exactly is the Nextvision 6?
ckolchak is offline  
Old 09-18-02, 01:10 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,071
TheMadMonk, I recommend you check out some articles at Projector Central. That's a great resource for all sorts of projector information.
Josh Z is offline  
Old 09-18-02, 04:19 PM
  #9  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Viewsonic

The Viewsonic Next Vision 6 is a HiDef Video Processor, please see:
http://www.hdtvbuyer.com/2002/05_may...onic_monit.htm

The prices and release dates in that article are way off so please disregard them...

Basically it allows your LT-150 or AE100 or whatever your display source (old computer monitor) to take in a coax, component, S-Video, composite, etc... It cleans up the horrible cable signal and makes it somewhat acceptible on my 9 foot screen. It makes LD very acceptible and since I have a progressive DVD player I just hook it up to a transcoder and just by-pass that signal to my projector. The NV6 also adds a tuner, PIP, closed captioning, etc...

It is a followup product to their ever so popular VB50HRTV... http://www.viewsonic.com/products/tablet_pc_vb50.htm

I just want to know how the NV6 compares to the Iscan Pro now that they are more comparable in price (street price not retail) point now...
jinhopark is offline  
Old 09-18-02, 05:58 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 641
The nextvision 6 has also doubled in price from that press release, from $199 to $399.
gotapex is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 01:49 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,647
Re: Viewsonic

Originally posted by jinhopark

Basically it allows your LT-150 or AE100 or whatever your display source (old computer monitor) to take in a coax, component, S-Video, composite, etc... It cleans up the horrible cable signal and makes it somewhat acceptible on my 9 foot screen. It makes LD very acceptible and since I have a progressive DVD player I just hook it up to a transcoder and just by-pass that signal to my projector. The NV6 also adds a tuner, PIP, closed captioning, etc...

i'm still a bit confused.
since i only use my pj w/ progressive dvd sources,
would i be getting much, if any benefit out of this?
if this gizmo is in effect a scaler, just how good can it be for under $400?
i read an article last year on transcoders, but for the life of me can't remember any real details.
what exactly do they do?
i asked last year and the info i got then (which i can't remember) made it seem like using a transcoder with my set up was a waste of time.

you know, everybody poo-poohs the scaler in the LT150, but i saw a runco set a couple weeks ago, with an interlaced signal being fed thru their $5k scaler to their $12k projector, and once again, i honestly thought my little nec generally provided at least as good and probably a good bit more satisfying image.
certainly one with much less combing (going straight from a prog scan player).

Mad Monk,
i really don't see the need for you to wait while the technology gets better- its already quite good.
unless you are saving up or just not ready for it with your current living situation.

Most often, the weakest link by far with my gear is still ( & will probably continue to be) the software.
ckolchak is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 05:12 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 2,601
Broadly used, "transcoder" refers to any device or software that converts video encoded in one format to another. In this context, I believe he's talking about a device that converts between component video and RGB (VGA) video. Your LT-150 can accept either, so a transcoder is indeed unnecessary for you.

The Viewsonic box sounds like a scaler with some consumer features like PIP, POP, etc. If its scaling abilities is better than most of the built-in scalers in projectors, then there might be a market for it in HT. However, I wonder how it compares to a DVDO iScan which would only cost a little bit more?
belboz is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 08:55 AM
  #13  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
ckolchak,

Yes I am unsure if the transcoder would do you any good. For me (AE100) the recommended input is through the RGB connector with the WIDE480 setting as opposed to the Component input... Plus a 35 ft RGB connector was far cheaper than a 35 ft Component cable, so once I fished in the RGB cable in the walls...THAT WAS THAT (not doing that again, plus I'm not sure I can fit anything else in there!)

If all you do is watch DVD through progressive sources then I'm sure your setup is fine... If you want to use your projector for more and watch FREE OTA HDTV signals (depending on where you live, if you're in Montana then HDNet is probably your only option) then you are probably going to have to buy a Viewsonic product, like MANY LT-150(z) users have. The free HDTV signals will blow your mind! Did you see the Master's, Saving Private Ryan, or PBS stations in HD??? It's stunning on my 61" set, but on a 9 footer it's jaw dropping!!! I hope the AE300 with DVI will be street priced appropriately, or I hope the Sony 13HT has a DVI.


Originally posted by belboz
However, I wonder how it compares to a DVDO iScan which would only cost a little bit more?
Exactly my question (see above).

-Jinho
jinhopark is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 10:21 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,071
Originally posted by belboz
If its scaling abilities is better than most of the built-in scalers in projectors, then there might be a market for it in HT. However, I wonder how it compares to a DVDO iScan which would only cost a little bit more?
The IScan is not a scaler. It is just a de-interlacer.
Josh Z is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 11:22 AM
  #15  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
Originally posted by Josh Z
The IScan is not a scaler. It is just a de-interlacer.
Josh,

Yes that is true... The IScan is a de-interlacer, line-doubler, line-accumulator, etc...etc... whatever you wish to call it.

But it goes back to the simple debate of Scaler Vs. Line Doubler... I'm leaning more towards the Scaler camp...that is if you can find the proper scaler that exactly/or most closely matches the native resolution of your viewing device.

External scalers and line doublers are both competing for your dollar, and it's all about matching components with one another. I guess it's the same as anything else, right? In the automotive world it is the Supercharger Vs. Turbocharger debate...

-Jinho
jinhopark is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 04:06 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 2,601
hmm... for some reason I thought the IScan scaled. I guess it's because so many people use it with an LT-150 and are really happy with it, I just sort of assumed it was scaling and not the LT-150.

In fact, my friend has that combo coming sometime next week. He bought them as a set from a guy on HTF. I guess I'll find out then how well the LT-150's scaler works.
belboz is offline  
Old 09-19-02, 07:32 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,071
Originally posted by belboz
hmm... for some reason I thought the IScan scaled. I guess it's because so many people use it with an LT-150 and are really happy with it, I just sort of assumed it was scaling and not the LT-150.

In fact, my friend has that combo coming sometime next week. He bought them as a set from a guy on HTF. I guess I'll find out then how well the LT-150's scaler works.
A friend of mine has an LT-150 and was using an IScan with it, but was not satisfied with the projector's internal scaling quality and bought an Extron scaler to go with it instead (for almost as much as the projector cost him originally).

It should be noted that he is very picky about scaling artifacts, though. When he tried to demonstrate the difference between the two, I could see what he was pointing to but probably would not have been overly bothered by it myself.
Josh Z is offline  
Old 09-20-02, 12:40 AM
  #18  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,647
Josh,
this is something i'm very interested in knowing, and still haven't had a satisfactory answer yet-maybe you can help.
Just exactly how did the scaling artifacts manifest themselves?
what did they look like?
where certain conditions, movement, dark/light, etc exacerbating them?

most of the time i can't figure out if what is degrading the picture is a scaling artifact or a compression artifact or just simply grain in the film that takes on the appearence of 'swarmies".

did your friend have to feed the scaler an interlaced signal?
if so, did you notice more combing?

in the case of the runco i saw, and a sharp also, i don't understand the point of going to the trouble and expense of adding a scaler, when you are going to be getting an image that more frequently combs.
at least more frequently than a sub $300 dvd player with a froudja chipset.
ckolchak is offline  
Old 09-20-02, 02:54 PM
  #19  
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 161
NV6

Originally posted by belboz
The Viewsonic box sounds like a scaler with some consumer features like PIP, POP, etc.
I guess the VB50/NV5/NV6 are scaler/deinterlacers... The anticipated NV6 with the STV108 chip is looking less interesting as the scaler appears to have little over the VB50/NV5 STV102 chip.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=172354

I guess I'll just have to wait along with everyone else until November or so until all the reviews are out...

-Jinho
jinhopark is offline  
Old 09-20-02, 03:56 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 641
Ack, bummer. The VB50's scaling is pretty poor. The internal scaler in my projector (silicon image chipset) is better than it.
gotapex is offline  
Old 09-20-02, 04:22 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,071
Originally posted by ckolchak
this is something i'm very interested in knowing, and still haven't had a satisfactory answer yet-maybe you can help.
Just exactly how did the scaling artifacts manifest themselves?
what did they look like?
where certain conditions, movement, dark/light, etc exacerbating them?
Mostly it was a case of exaggerated pixel structure, primarily visible in contrasty images (like white end credits text over a black screen).

most of the time i can't figure out if what is degrading the picture is a scaling artifact or a compression artifact or just simply grain in the film that takes on the appearence of 'swarmies".
I have the same problem. I think that sensitivity to scaling artifacts is something that develops once the initial "WOW" factor of using a projector has worn off. Since I don't have my own projector yet, it's hard for me to accurately judge the appearance of these artifacts.

did your friend have to feed the scaler an interlaced signal?
if so, did you notice more combing?
The scaler performs its own de-interlacing, yes, and only accepts an interlaced signal. Combing and de-interlacing quality was decent, but not as good as using the IScan or a progressive scan DVD player.

in the case of the runco i saw, and a sharp also, i don't understand the point of going to the trouble and expense of adding a scaler, when you are going to be getting an image that more frequently combs.
at least more frequently than a sub $300 dvd player with a froudja chipset.
It's a trade-off, sure. It depends on which artifact bugs you more. Combing was still pretty rare when using the external scaler, whereas scaling artifacts are more plentiful when not using it. You have to decide whether you would rather see rare occurences of a very distracting artifact, or nearly constant occurrences of a less severe but still annoying artifact.

I don't know about the Runco you saw, but the Sharp M20X is said to have a very good scaler internally. So if you feed it a progressive signal from a DVD player with the DCDi chip, this should be a pretty ideal situation. The LT-150's scaler is not as good and required the Extron.

Last edited by Josh Z; 09-20-02 at 04:24 PM.
Josh Z is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.