joshd2012

Gotta love this. See you just criticized me when you said...
And now you say that you get your info...
As the owner (congratulations) of your business you make all the decisions on what hardware you will include in your systems. I'm not claiming to be in a similar situation, but I know that companies usually take the best price they can get on a component and sell that like it was the best. What do I mean? If company A wants to sell you 100 of their DVD players for $50 and company B wants to sell you 100 of their DVD players for $45, you take company B because you can gain the most profit form selling it at the same price. Now, you're not going to promote something you don't sell.

Frank S

Some of us in the Computer business are not dishonest by presenting all the components available as the best/must have parts they need! I get my info from experience and from the manufactures which means I decide what is needed and advise my clients what all the components available are and whether they are needed or not! I don't PUSH clients to buy a part just because I offer it! Your insistance that a hardware decoder is a MUST have is BAD info and as you see has gotten you a lot of flack (just as your other dis-information in other threads have done).

Yes I get information from the manufacturers and after doing so I make a informed judgement as to whether it is a needed component or not for a particular client and go from there! Falcon is NOT the manufacturer but a computer reseller who assembles components from THE manufacturers and sells tho the public. Again they build very nice system but they are over priced and they will try to sell the buyer as many extras as they can because it represents more profits at the expense of honesty to the customer. We deal with most of our clients in person and we have outstanding word of mouth advertising because we are upfront with our clients as to what they need and what is not!

joshd2012

Wow, I never said it was a must. If that was true, I would have said that the only way it would work would be with a Hardware Decoder. Don't start putting words in my mouth cause you need an arguement. I said that, in my opinion, it would be better option. I never claimed to be an expert, as you have done, or claimed to know everything.

As for giving customers what they need: If someone came in who needed a computer for word processing only, would you sell them a 200 MHz computer. I mean, you only need 133 MHz, so would only recommend that computer, right?

Frank S

That would probably be your answer but since most new word processors (Word XP/Wordperfect 2002) require P2/P3 level performance (which you appearantly are un-informed about) I would still recommend a 1Ghz. + system (if funds are extremely tight) instead of a system that barely does what is needed at the time and is a waste of money as it will soon be absolete and useless to the client!

joshd2012

Well, there go the credentials... Microsoft recommends that you use a Pentium III processor (surprising with their connections to Intel, huh?) but they say you require a 133 MHz.

http://www.microsoft.com/catalog/dis...&subid=22&pg=3

jumbojp

Damn, Windows 2000 and Word 2002 on a 133MHz Pentium!

Could you imagine how slow that would be!

Oops sorry I will let you two get back to your discussion

Frank S

Well there goes your total lack of computer knowledge!! Microsoft and most other manufacturers always give a minimum requirement that you can actually run the program BUT you will spend 90% of your time waiting for the program to complete tasks at that minimum required system speed! If you were knowlagdeable you would know that to run Word XP on a 133MHx. system is a joke to say the least! Maybe you think that is OK to suggest to clients a system that runs at the programs minumum required configuration is OK but 99.9% of the people would be pissed as hell when they sat there watching their system crawl at a snails pace! In business time is money and to buy a cheapo system that is slow as sin is wasting money by the minute and not worth the savings!

joshd2012

I have used Microsoft Word 2002 on many P133 systems without any problems. In fact, besides the loading time (which is admititly a few seconds longer), it performs not any different on the P133s I have used, and PIII-700 I am using now. Since you are the resident expert, please explain to me how the systems I have used have no problem operating while you claim this is problem. Am I Jesus, and I don't know it?

Frank S

LOL...It would funny watching the person take the computer and throwing it out the window in aggrevation as well!

Frank S

Your claims are riotous to say the least! You must live in a nice dreamworld there buddy! Either that or you have the world's crappiest P3-700 computer that runs at the speed of a 133Mhz. system!

joshd2012

How slow? A few seconds slower than my P3-700.

joshd2012

Both, unfortuanately, Gateways. The company I used to work for used Dell P133s to run this software, and still does. I have experience not one running problem using Word 2002 on a P133. I think that you have just been brainwashed by the computer corporations.

jumbojp

Well I am not sure exactly how slow, sorry!

Sorry about your Gateway purchase

daledude

Just to quickly get back on topic, best buy currently has the radeon 8500 retail for under $150 after rebates. It has t.v. out and onboard hardware decoding, not to mention really good game performance (easily competes with high end geforce 3).

The geforce cards are good all around cards (I have a gf3 ti200 installed right now), but the 2d of the ati is noticeably better imho.

X

Let me just warn against the Radeon 8500 for DVD playback. Its drivers are immature and irate owners are returning them in droves once they discover that. S-video output may be ok, but the best, tweakable, home theater/component quality is sorely lacking. The 7500 is still preferred.

RalphWiggum

I've heard the same thing about the 8500, X. Do you have any experience (or reliable second-hand info) with the 7500? Also, are you referring to the Radeon 7500 or the Radeon 7500 AIW? The AIW comes with a RF remote which would be very cool, if it works well.

Getting back to the picture quality issue. If I want the best picture possible, I would need progressive scan DVD player and and TV able to present progressive scan, and also a 16x9 screen or a 4x3 with "squeeze trick". Is there other features that affect the picture as much or more than these? Also, are these features possible using a PC for the DVD player?

Thanks again for everyone's help!

daledude

The only issue I've noticed with the 8500 is that t.v. output can be quirky if you have your desktop resolution set to 800 x 600 (this is reportedly a wide spread problem but I personally have only seen it on one of two systems). This is a driver problem, but I never have installed newer drivers to see if it has been fixed because the person who has it is perfectly content to leave his desktop resolution at 1024x 768 with no problems.

You are correct in that the Radeon 7500 does not seem to have this problem, but I thought is was always more popular because it was about $100 cheaper then the 8500 and still contained the same dvd playback hardware.

I would still say the both ati cards have better t.v. output then my geforce 3 ti200, but I'm only comparing them to my one card.

Kevlar

I have two computers networked together, one with the ATI all in wonder radeon 32 DDR, one with a geforce2 64 DDR. Both have s-video out and dvd playback through both cards is excellent.

One area where the radeon is much better than the geforce is in setting up the t.v. output. The radeon allows TV out with the computer monitor still working. The geforce switches the monitor off when you use the tv out. Its a major pain because it brings up the same window where you change resolutions and gives you 15 seconds to accept the change or it reverts back. If the tv is in a different room this requires a mad dash and a cordless mouse/keyboard. Logitech makes a very nice one. =)

The radeon all in wonder has a ton of other features that make it alot more useable than the geforce. It accepts a cable tv input, it has a tv on demand feature that allows recording and pausing live broadcasts, it has an composite, svid, and audio inputs for capturing from vcr or camcorder if you want to put some of your home movies or vcr tapes on vcd to watch on your dvd player.

-K

X

I was referring to the 7500. The AIW could have some nice features as Kevlar mentioned. I haven't used the 7500 myself as I have a perfectly good modified Elsa GeForce2, but I'm getting ready to get one for the dual monitor ability. And the better picture and more tweakability from the 7500 will be nice (although I'm wondering how much better it can really get).

As for the progressive output, you'll need a set capable of accepting progressive of course, getting into a different league of set. The 7500 is capable of outputting component (after adding a transcoder) interlaced or non-interlaced so you would be covered no matter what. But I strongly suggest getting a set capable of component input (whether progressive or not) as the output from your video card (VGA out) will be far superior this way.

You will get all the features you want, and ones you never dreamed of from the computer, a decent software player, and a few add-on programs like PowerStrip and YXY. How about timeshifting rental DVDs for one?

RalphWiggum

OK, I think I will try the HTPC. I only need to buy a video card, transcoder, and Powerstrip (I think) and then the free YXY. The cost of these would be less than buying a good progressive scan standalone player (since I was going to buy a new video card anyway, I'm not including this in the comparison).

Now, assuming my measuring and AutoCAD skills are good, then I should be able to fit the 47" Panny 16x9 in my new bedroom (I don't move in until the end of the month). I have some concerns though, since I have no experience with a RPTV or a 16x9 set. My intial concerns are:

1. Anamorphic vs. Non-anamorphic. I have several non-anamorphic DVD's. Here's the percentages of my collection: 14% are 1.66:1 (59% being anamorphic), 36% are 1.85:1 (74% being anamorphic), and 36% are 2.35:1 (79% being anamorphic). Also, 14% of my collection is 1.33:1, and therefore, not anamorphic. How bad do the non-anamorphic discs look on 16x9 (not compared against anamorphic xfers, but compared to letterboxed on 4:3 TV)? Also, which mode do you watch the non-anamorphic dics? How do 1.33:1 frames look compared to watching on a 4:3 set? Which mode do you watch 1.33:1 on 16x9 (I don't mind stretching TV shows, but I would like to preserve AR on 1.33:1 movies)?

2. Burn-In.
a. Assuming the TV is calibrated using Video Essentials, what is the risk of burn-in from the black bars on DVD's >= 1.85:1? I will be watching DVD's 80% of the time, and most of my discs will still require black bars.
b. What is the risk of burn-in when watching a disc

X

Good decision on the HTPC. You're in for a lot of work, but it really is rewarding. I was doing some tweaking on mine tonight and the picture really is amazing.

I don't have a lot of time for answering these excellent questions right now. But let me just touch on a couple of them.

YXY will allow you to size the picture and move the black bars pretty much any way you want them. I haven't watched a 4:3 with it yet, but I'm pretty sure it will handle it just fine. I'll confirm.

Also, YXY can move a 2.35 picture up and down (or a picture with bars on the sides left and right) on the screen so the black bars aren't at the same place each time. That, and watching some screen-filling movies and/or TV should take care of your (and my) burn-in concerns.

RalphWiggum

Thanks again, X. The "shifting" feature of YXY does put my mind more at ease. Also, please, whenever you have more time, address the other issues. Thanks again.

In the meantime, do any other users have input on my other question? Please see my post above (two posts up), but I will also provide the "Cliff's Notes" version of the question: How do non-anamorphic and 1.33 discs look on 16x9 TVs as compared to watching them on a 4:3 TV?


Thanks again guys and gals!

X

I tried the 1.33 with YXY last night with mixed results. Strongly complicating the situation is the fact that my Pioneer 510HD locks into full mode (1.78 anamorphic fills the screen) when driven directly by the computer's VGA out to its VGA in. That takes away all ability to use any of its other screen modes, like the 4:3 one.

YXY allowed me to size the picture and place it where I wanted. The downside was that I could still see my Win2K desktop, blue background with icons and all -- kind of distracting. YXY didn't give me large black bars on the sides. I guess I would need a black background and maybe move off my icons or cover them up with the movie. But it did look good.

Now if I had a transcoder and a Radeon 7500 card that can ouput interlaced I wouldn't have the "lock into full" problem. Or a set that didn't lock into full (although I wouldn't trade the Pioneer in just for that - BTW the newer models don't lock into full).

But I think I'll play with the black desktop background first which would be kind of cool because I could move the image to either side helping avoid burn-in. And it's possible that PowerStrip can give me a desktop sized small enough with black sides that will handle it.

RalphWiggum

X, were you able to get more satisfactory results with 1.33? BTW, I downloaded YXY just to play with (not very useful on my monitor, but I get an idea of what it can do). Would the Blanking option not cover your Windows desktop? Also, I tried playing with the Orbiting feature. When I clicked the "Test Orbit" button, I could see the viewing area jump as expected, however, after the test, I did not see it move at all (I set an extreme orbit so I could easily see it moving).

I also have a question about Powerstrip. Assuming I get the 47" Panny (do you know of a reason not to, btw?), what resolutions/timings would be best? According to the specs, it has HD 1080i and 480p (maybe more, this stuff is still new to me). I'm also concerned about damaging the TV using Powerstrip, because I don't know much about it. What should I do/not do to prevent damaging the TV?

BTW, I have been doing a lot of research on HTPC, RPTV, etc, and keep wavering on whether I should bother with HTPC and get a standalone instead. I keep reading about all these problems at AVS, and it makes me think that it might not be worth it. Then again, maybe those guys are just having trouble getting the last drop of quality out of their system. I do know that I have a massive headache after reading posts at AVS, because they throw out so much stuff that I have no idea what they are talking about. Don't get me wrong, I think I will do the HTPC (I am an advanced computer user and not afraid of software/hardware configurations), but the HTPC has thrown me back to beginner level. Any advice/links to simple, current step by step instructions for setting up Radeon 7500, Powerstrip, YXY, transcoder (which do you recommend?), PowerDVD, and Dscaler (any other software I left out?) for Win98?

Man, I really am sorry for these long posts, and I am VERY grateful for your help! Hopefully, I can help you sometime as much as you have helped me. Thanks again.

Ralph

X

Ralph, too much for tonight. I will try the Blanking, I haven't even got around to it yet. But I did change my desktop to black and I like it. Just haven't tried it with a 1.33 yet.

I completely understand what you mean about feeling like a total novice. I'm fairly competent with computers too, but this is stuff I had to learn from scratch and had to grope each step of the way. Complicating things is the fact that I had to do the viewing at night to have a dark enough environment to see the subtle improvements. For a while I was discouraged and even thought I couldn't get a better picture from the HTPC than from my standalone interlaced Sony player.

But after a little while I ended up with an incredible picture that made it all worth the effort. I mean the picture is really good! I've seen people post pictures of particular scenes that they captured from their computer or shot off their screen. Nowhere near as good as what I see sitting 10' away from a 53" screen.

And now I've added functionality like adding 240 GB of storage to a server and playing all my ripped CDs through the HTPC too. They sound great and different playlists are so easy to put together!