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Will the Superbowl be in HD this year?

Old 02-02-02, 07:55 PM
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Will the Superbowl be in HD this year?

CBS broadcast in HD last year (they even had different announcers for the HD feed) for the Super Bowl, plus all of their AFC playoff games. This year, they didn't show any of the AFC playoff games in HD and neither has FOX. Will FOX show the Super Bowl in HD? I sure hope so, although FOX is not very good with true HD. And when will Monday Night Football go back to HD? They stopped right when I got my set. Almost all of ABC's shows are in HD now and all of CBS' are (except for news & reality shows), so when will the NFL be? I loved the CBS games last year. I'm hoping HDNet on DirecTv will eventually air 1 game a week in HD- they already show MLB & NHL games in HD, plus this years Olympics.
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Old 02-02-02, 08:17 PM
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I heard a while back that it wasn't going to be, but I'm not sure, so guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 02-02-02, 08:27 PM
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fox is broadcasting the superbowl in 480p
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Old 02-02-02, 09:41 PM
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Is the 480p going to be 16x9 at least? That's how they show X-Files, Titus, Bernie Mac, etc. I can live with the lower resolution if it's 16x9 at least.
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Old 02-04-02, 06:02 PM
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Well, it was in FOX's "Widescreen High Resoltion" as they're calling it now. It wasn't as crisp as true HD, but it was 16x9 (comparing the broadcasts showed definitely more picture on the sides & not matted) and clearer than a standard cahnnel. Not bad at all! Plus my team won!
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Old 02-04-02, 10:41 PM
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If you watched this on a larger HDTV you would not say it was anything but piss poor! Close ups were decent but the field shots were just horrible! Just a slight notch above standard definition!

Also FOX shot this with regular 480i cameras set to widesrceen and it was upconverted to 480p by each affliate themselves so it was NOT native 480p (there are no such thing as 480p cameras anyways)!
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Old 02-05-02, 01:16 AM
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So the Canon XL1s which can shoot 30p fps and is an NTSC miniDV camera doesn't exist? Hmmm....
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Old 02-05-02, 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Danny_boy
So the Canon XL1s which can shoot 30p fps and is an NTSC miniDV camera doesn't exist? Hmmm....
Were talking about professional cameras! No one is ignorant enough to think that a network would use consumer cameras to shoot a football game! Also NTSC would NOT be 480p but is strictly a 480i standard! By the way even the Canon XL1s you quote is a 480i NOT 480p camera!

Last edited by Frank S; 02-05-02 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 02-06-02, 02:52 PM
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Yeah I'm really that stupid. My point was that there are consumer camcorders that shoot 480p, so the comment that there are no 480p cameras is completely untrue. And yes the Canon XL1s can shoot in both 480i and 480p. You just have to go into the menu and change the setting. I never claimed that 480p was NTSC, only that there are NTSC cameras that are capable of shooting 480p. (I only used the example of the XL1s because I figured that people here would be familiar with this camera.)

The cameras that were most likely used for the game were Sony HDC900s. These cameras are capable of simultaneous multi-format output. And the hand-helds on the sidelines were probably HDC950s, which are just portable versions of the 900. The reason that the game didn't look perfect was the fact that they were using 480p as the outout format, this is not HD but rather ED (Enhanced Definition, to be considered true HD a signal must be at least 720p or 1080i). The signal was not upconverted to 480p by the affiliates, if it was it would have been 4:3 or 4:3 cropped to 16:9. If you were able to watch the game on both a widescreen TV and an NTSC set side by side you would have seen that the widescreen version was in fact wider and not a cropped 4:3 image. Also the feeds came down on different satellite transponders.

Did I mention that I'm a broadcast engineer and editor by trade? I guess Frank has never read any of my other posts.

edited to add: Upon further investigation I have found that Fox used Thomson cameras to shoot the game. While not as good as industry standard Sony cameras, they are still capable of multi-format output. I don't know exactly which cameras were used but I would guess that it was either the LDK 6000 or 7000.

Last edited by Danny_boy; 02-06-02 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 02-06-02, 06:07 PM
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I agree with Danny_boy that it wasn't upconverted, or as he said, it would have had bars on the left & right like non-HD shows will on an HD station (plus comparing them you could see there was more side picture on the 16x9). I was watching on a 65" HDTV & thought the picture looked pretty good. The shots of James Brown on the field were slightly grainy, but the game itself looked pretty sharp, except on the farther waway shots. Not as good as CBS, but much better than standard signal- especially on a 65". I have a Sony mini-DV camera that has a 16x9 (anamorphic- it actually compresses it in 4x3!) mode, and I believe it's progressive-scan, although I'm not sure what resolution.
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Old 02-07-02, 12:19 AM
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I have to seriosly doubt the credentials of Danny_boy as I again reiterate the fact that there are NO native 480p cameras out there! I would challange anyone to put a link to a manufacturer's site that shows a camera that does native 480p! They either do 480i, 720p, 1080i, or 1080p!

Here's the link to Canon's site and the XL1's specs...where is the native 480p specification located at? There nowhere because it doesn't exist! And believe me a manufacturer would be playing up a 480p feature if it existed with the proliferation of Progressive Scan DVD players and more consumer awareness!

http://www.canondv.com/xl1s/s.html


And once again the SB WAS shot with 480i cameras (set to shoot in WS) and upconverted to 480p by the affliates! Fox shot the game in WS and framed it so the action was contained within the 4x3 frame so when they cut away the outter egdes for the 4x3 telecast it still had the essential action within it!
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Old 02-07-02, 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by El Kabong
I have a Sony mini-DV camera that has a 16x9 (anamorphic- it actually compresses it in 4x3!) mode, and I believe it's progressive-scan, although I'm not sure what resolution.
Anamorphic has nothing to do with Progressive Scan video. Most Digital cameras these days have the Anamorphic feature but none have the ability to shoot 480p video. Two different technologies all together. Anamorphic NTSC is still 480i but it allows WS TV's to display the correct aspect ratio without having to use the TV's zoom feature and thus you get the full resolution of the video. 480 Progressive Scan is where the video has 480 lines at all times as opposed to 480i that has 240 lines that are on screen at all times. This is why Progressive Scan DVD players give you such a film like look with no signs of scan lines (the by product of interlaced video at the lower resolutions).

Last edited by Frank S; 02-07-02 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 02-07-02, 04:15 AM
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Doubt all you want Frank, but I do work in TV and have for the last six years. My official title is Broadcast Operations Technician. Before I came to my current station I was an editor at a FOX O&O.

As far as the Canon camera, they call it "Frame movie mode" and in this mode the camera captures 30 progressively scanned frames per second. And being that the CCDs in this camera are capturing images that are 640x480 the outcome is 480p. When Canon first introduced this "Frame Movie mode" on the original XL1 480p was not a term that was thrown around much, neither was 1080i or 720p for that matter.

And as far as the Super Bowl was concerned, Fox affiliates did not upconvert anything, they merely passed through the 480p widescreen signal that they were receiving from a satellite transponder.

oh yeah, here's the link you requested
http://bpgprod.sel.sony.com/bpcnav/a...oduct.BPC.html
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