Opinions are like @$$holes - everybody has one.

:D

You always do! Look where it's gotten us. :)

I'm gonna do the exact same thing (since I've always looked up to you :rolleyes: ), and shut my obnoxious Chicago mouth since we've just about dominated this thread. I don't usually engage in these types of threads, but somehow this one deserved special attention. Let's hope that we've all learned a little something from this thread, and carry it out to the way we conduct ourselves in the Forums.

Really getting down from my soapbox now,
Ray

p.s.
Dang, how 'bout them MAVS! I'm happy to finally see Yao get his stride, but the MAVS are just too good! RE: the bandwagon thing, and all other issues - let's take it offline.

I want to chime in one more time here and say how impressive it is to see folks actually considering viewpoints from other perspectives, to the point of offering the possibility of being more flexible with their own position. THAT'S the greatest benefit of intelligent discussion and a sign of maturity.

Not that you'll catch ME changing my mind. I never claimed to be THAT mature... :-))

Very constructive thread, ladies and gents. Seems like it's good to get together sometimes to hear what's on everyone's mind...

1. Agreed, people should not get so bent out of shape no matter what happens when a trade falls through. Whether its cause is someone doesn't want to ship first or maybe the other person has changed their mind. I believe a trade can be cancelled as long as both parties have not yet shipped. I understand this pisses people off and not the smartest thing to do sometimes people just changed their mind. This is not to say that you should cancel a trade if something better comes along, but I know it happens and won't get bent out of shape by it.

2. For me Keith, it's not I sent first so you send first, it's more like I know nothing about you but I can provide at least 10 references that say I'm an honest trader. As for ebay feedback, how do you know whoever they are referencing is really them?

3. I really do agree in being cordial and explaining my reasoning for requesting that a new trader send first and at the end of a day if a trade doesn't happen, it's no big deal so why get so upset. Hazing is definately not good for the forum.

i-bystander - i disagree with you the day we meet amd i disagree with you now. this is not about Gold Traders becoming "bad" traders or making "bad" trades - this about how the shipping arrangements should be handled with "new" traders ! Make what you must out of it (you usually do) lets all gather all the opinions and use what works the best.

BTW dude - one of the new traders that had turned down our trade because of shipping has reconsidered after reading this thread and made me a counter-offer and also has said he would ship 1st - wow

p.s. i hope this helps a few Gold Traders like it did me

as far as the gold traders leaving feedback a couple of them didn't when I was making my first few trades but I don't think it was on purpose.
I think they just didn't check the GTL to see if I was gold yet or not and when I ask them to leave feedback it was promotly done.

another thought :

being a Gold Trader used to mean something - this is in no ways to try to make sending 1st manitory - it really erks me to see gold traders ragging on the system (Gold Traders List), because of a bad trade and when i joined in was like a fraternity.

p.s my 1st few trade offers i recieved when i was a newbie, they must of thought i was real stupid and when i made a counter-purposal - see if sounds familar !

"nevermind or no thanks"

Re: Re: My 2 cents..
 

I'm glad you related your experience. I'm not going to pass judgement on either Breezy Pete or you, but...

This is my biggest complaint about certain Gold Traders: their haughtiness, their condescension, their lack of courtesy, their sense of superiority and entitlement.

And yes, Randy/Stefanie, I understand that you intended this thread solely address how trades (specifically "shipping arrangements") with new traders should be dealt with, but isn't it becoming obvious that for so many of us, we can't discuss how to deal with new traders without discussing AS WELL how *certain* Gold Traders have been treating the new traders?

What I'm saying is, maybe more new traders would have no qualms sending first if Gold Traders treated them with respect and courtesy, instead of automatically declaring their "right" to have the new trader send first.

And how's the weather in Texas this time of year? In New York, it's rain, rain, rain and COLD. :(

hey Capt - you have some good points

sometimes it is all about how the user reads the e-mail (how it goes in his ear), its not like your face to face -people can take it in their minds however the want, even when you are being polite!

one problen i'm having is:

people defending the new trader on value

if its cheap when can mail at the same time - but if i'm sending the X-Files, then since your a new trader you would have to send 1st. so it is about $$$ ($10 or $100), how can you justify this way of thinking- a loss is a loss

p.s i would rather kiss my sister and tie - lol

Capt - the weather is beautiful

70's and not 1 clould in the sky (thanksgiving wow)

after talking to you and a few other in this thread my %*& list is getting smaller - randy

Ok - It's obvious that most of the things said are by Randy. Now, I have a response about posting "feedback". I'm a little slow I have no doubt about that (work my hours). I try to post as quickly as I can but sometimes I forget (I'm only human).

Trading used to be fast and furious on here. Seems to be slowing down a lot lately. Where you trade for 2 weeks then you don't trade for 2 weeks. Every cancellation seems to stick in my mind more and more. I never have belonged to another trade site except for Switchouse (hell, I never had time on the Exchange it was so busy). Now, for the first time I'm thinking about joining other trade sites because of the loss of trades and in my eyes, watching the system being torn apart. So I think if things don't get more clear cut, then we're headed on a downward spiral. This is the best trading site on the net!

Stefanie

GOOD Trader's List
 

I'd just like to remind everyone that the list is called the Good Trader's List not the Gold Trader's List. Its all about references. The more references, the better the feeling on a possible trade. As someone stated (other than me that is :) ), the isn't any "rule" thats says a gold trader can demand to send first to other established traders.

As far as the $hit list, rotfl, well, I guess I'm the last of the three on lugs' counter $hit list huh guys. I guess I'm the one with no personality, huh Lugs ;) . Seriously though, my $hit list is always up for revision. Hell, I even traded with Anime_Guy after he made it on my $hit list :)

As someone stated, this is a good place where people can come together and work things out. I've had less trouble with this place than,say, someplace like Ebay. I feel, for the most part, that most people treat each other with respect. As Keith said, each trader can make his or her own demands as they see fit. The trader opposite the deal of them has every right to back out of that deal as well if they don't feel comfortable. After all, these "newbie" will eventually be added to the list of "Gold" traders as long as they think this is a great place to trade. The more people we have around here, the easier it is for us all to find that "match" of a trade :)

Yes, you're right: a loss is a loss whether it's a $100 set or a $9 bargain title. To elaborate my attitude, let me relate a recent trade:

Patrick Cummings (Bolt) contacted me in early November asking if I was willing to trade my "Three Kings" for his "Apollo 13" (non-DTS version, btw). At the time he wasn't listed on the GTL, but I went ahead and agreed to the trade and we shipped simultaneously. I was being too trusting here? Yeah, I guess I was, but the way I looked at it was this:

IF Bolt screwed me out of "Three Kings," I would have contacted Mao who would have put Bolt on the "Incomplete Traders" list and then every DVDTalk member would have been notified about him. To me, losing "Three Kings" wouldn't have upset me (hey, I was trying to get rid of the title in the first place) and perhaps the sacrifice of "Three Kings" would have been worthwhile if it exposed a scam-artist.

I don't know if Greg (Thespian68) shares a similar mentality. Greg?

Keith

P.S. BTW, Patrick (Bolt) is an EXCELLENT trader: very reliable, and very honest. A man to be trusted, for sure. Sorry Patrick, if you would rather have not wanted me to use our trade as an example.

P.P.S. Randy, your Texas weather is making me envious. I need to correct the current state of New York weather: it's now WIND, WIND, WIND and COLD. :(

Hi Stefanie,

What would you want to be "more clear cut"? I think the guidelines as Mao has written them have appropriately struck the balance between too broad and too specific.

Do you want the guidelines to state that new members should be expected to ship first to Gold Traders?

Just asking what specifically you want more clear cut.

People, you know what, we might as well change the name "gold traders" to "God traders."

And to be "Godly" is to be selfless, which means disbersing among the less enlightened all the ill gotten goods the Godly fella has accumulated before he/she attained Godhood, which means free DVDs for the rest of us unenlightened.

I dont think we have the right to petition Mao to change ANY rules on HIS site.

If you abide by his GUIDELINES and suggestions (which is found as the SECOND THREAD on the Exchange site), we wouldn't be having all these discussions in the first place.

This is the ONLY trading site that makes me feel protected because of the GO0D TRADER rule -- "New Traders Mail First".

Of course, there are always exceptions to every rule. If the New Trader wants to trade his X Files for numberous of your general titles, then who should first??? In a case as this, then I think the two traders can come to some kind of a compromise. Maybe a Delivery Confirmation with a Signature.

If I had stuck to the site's GOLDEN RULE --- "New Traders Always Mail First", I would not have gotten ripped off like I did.

I mailed first for 10 trades and never complained. Sometimes it wasn't easy. I never felt that Gold Traders were punishing me because I was new, they were just protecting their property.I am now a Good Trader. I proved myself and graudated to higher standing which I am very proud of it. Now, it's the new trader's turn. I feel that is what this site STANDS FOR.

You were talking about the manner in which Gold Traders present themselves to new traders. I am a Gold Trader and a select of few Gold Traders have been very rude --- and for what reason?? Simply because the trade is NOT GOING THEIR WAY!! This is suppose to be a FUN site. This is NOT a business site. A FUN site!

I want to have FUN on this site and I want to meet and gab with all e traders.

But, to me, the bottom line is still NEW TRADERS MAIL FIRST. You will have a lot LESS to lose.

Golly Triple DVD. I was not aware that I was talking about you. I never brought your name up on the forum and slandered it. Please do not assume. I am neither afraid or ashamed to make something personal if it serves a point. None of my comments were meant to harm or indite anyone in particular.

Please let me be the one who reads my mind.

Thanks

Peter

I do actually. While I wouldnt go looking to be burned in a trade, if it did help prevent others from being defrauded, I would be happy some good came of my loss. And while I agree a loss is a loss, I would certainly be more *issed if I lost a $100 disc value as opposed to a $10 one. In that regard, I will admit that if I were trading a $10 title, I probably would be willing to send same time to a new trader. If it were a boxset or rarer disc, I might think harder about whether or not I would ask for shipment first. As I said before, no hard and fast rule for me.

One other comment I would like to make. Although I myself, Keith (capt_dallas) and Ray (i-bystander), and Randy/Stefanie (lugslady) have posted a number of times in this thread, I would hope no reader thinks that we think of ourselves as "better/more experienced" than any other, or that we feel our opinions are the "best ones here". Speaking for myself, I have tried to share what I have learned over the years, both in personal experience, guidance from more senior traders when I first started, and guidance from our esteemed moderator Mao. I certainly have enjoyed reading the contrasting opinions in this growing thread.
If any comments I have made have helped people decide on a way they want to conduct business, then great. If they have convinced anyone that Im a hardass to deal with, then I guess I have to accept that judgment.

The important thing is that we all have opinions. Some of us are more forward in sharing our own, but by no means does it attempt to establish us as mentors/experts whose opinions count more than anyone elses. If you see casual references to other traders (as I have made with Ray, Keith, and Randy/Stefanie) it is because we have traded, or exchanged emails before, and have a sense of camaraderie/friendship much like regular users of any bulletin board system or forum would develop.

Thanks for listening.

Greg

Hold on, Wait a second.

The site has a RULE about new traders mailing first? Not according to Mao's guidelines which you yourself referenced.

Again, here's what Mao writes in the forum guidelines about trading with new members:

"A newer trader may be asked to ship their items first from the more established traders. While this may be acceptable, please be aware that is in no way mandatory."

DVD Dave If you made a trade with Anime_Guy and if you still half a mind left; you have my respect. That dude can wear ya out sometimes. (Some traders think that every negative reply on every thread is about them).
There is something else I learned by this thread. There are a lot of people that I wouldn't even consider trading with much less maybe even read their e-mail. After this thread, it has made me want to try and trade with these guys again. Most of the replys seem to be more down to earth/like it used to be.

Stefanie

P.S. Being considered a "harda$$" as a trader - Is this only thought of when someone hears the word "no" or a "counter offer" is given?

Stefanie: When I referred to being a "hardass" in my previous post, I was simply reflecting on how some people might perceive me, rightly or wrongly. I'm sure a few people here probably dislike me because I am picky at times on titles I will take in trade. Having a large collection makes it hard sometimes to want things outside of my want list.

I know in my three years on this trade forum that I have never minded a "no thanks" or a counteroffer. Doesn't make me harbor any bad feelings. Its all a matter of having fun to begin with.

i agree with all of you. im still not a gold member and i dont have a problem shipping first. i think you all have earned the right to ask us non gold mambers to send first. i think if they have a problem with it there probobly are out to scham. i mean cmon what is a couple of days cmon grow up you dont become gold by ripping people off. just one persons oppinion. alltho i think there is issues with the feedback forum because ive had 12 positive feedbacks and im still at 5 but hey ill get there some day
sandy (killer)

i agrree 100 % with you - boy having a large collection does make it tuff. i think we love or movies (dvds) so much we all get flustrated when a trade falls though - remember this thread is not about me, its about all traders - i'm just using some of my ploblems that i have run across in trying to seal a deal and most of all this thread is to get other opinions & make traders think about how trades should be conducted

thanks

p.s. i going to relax fron posting for awhile

Hey Sandy,

Thanks for posting your opinion. I'm glad we've earned your trust, and my intention certainly isn't to undermine the "Gold Trader" status. What I AM ASSERTING is that Gold Traders need to be courteous and polite when requesting new members send first. What new members have written to me privately in emails (and what a few have stated publically here on this thread) is that they're offended by the perceived tone of some Gold Traders' demands.

Yes, we've seen several new members try to scam the entire forum, and a new member's refusal to send first may be an indication he/she isn't legit. HOWEVER, as several other "new" members have stated already here, sometime they won't send first because the Gold Trader is pushy.

yes i agree if the person is rude gold or not i would not trade just to avoid the headache. because most people like that will probobly find something wrong with the trade to make theirselves feel more dominant.
sandy(killer)