Trevor

I’m generally not a “book burning” type. One has, to some degree, separate the artist from the art. But I wouldn’t pay money for something where a good chunk of it was going to someone like Jones. For examples, I may occasionally listen to an old Cosby album, or watch Rosemary’s Baby, but I wouldn’t buy a new Polanski film, or go to a possible future Cosby book signing.

I’m not sure if there is anything left In the comic industry that will pay Jones, but I’m not sure if I’d spend money that I know was going to him. I plan to read his GL run someday, but I’m not sure if I’ll ever re-read/finish his Trouble with Girls work. That run is highly sexualized in nature, and I’d feel too icky. In fact, I’m not sure if I’d feel right even giving those books away. I might just rip them up and use them as packing material.

How do you all feel about it?

B5Erik

Huh. I only vaguely remember the Gerard Jones case. Not being a big DC fan at the time (see my Marvel VS DC Different Take thread), and still mostly being out of comics the story didn't resonate that much with me. Just another semi-high profile guy caught with child porn. (WTF is wrong with some people??)

But I got that Green Lantern: Hal Jordan collection (Emerald Dawn/Emerald Dawn II), and I loved it! Not knowing, of course, that Jones was that comic writer in that child porn case.

Still, even knowing that, it's a GREAT book. I'm not getting rid of it, and I'm not avoiding TPB's that have his work in them. I'm not penalizing the artists, editors, etc, and I'm not missing out on some really good stories with really good characters just because the writer ended up being a total scumbag.

But that is a bit of a buzzkill, though. You get all excited about a run of stories, and then find out that the guy writing them was scummy sleaze. Yeah, buzzkill - enthusiasm and excitement GREATLY muted.

ddrknghtrtns

You can always buy or order his Green Lantern books through a use bookstore.

Definitely, will never be reading Prime or the Trouble With Girls.

B5Erik

So I started reading this the other night and, DAMN!!! I really love the first two issues. I also want to punch Guy Gardner in the face, but I loved the first two issues. I'm bummed that it looks like there are no further trades released from this run. This is some really good stuff.

Red Hood

I hated the retcon. To me, it's one the biggest mistakes DC has made. That, and bringing back Barry Allen. Both are legacy characters and bringing Barry and Hal back basically was a fan service for Silver Age fans and a jumping of point for those who had grown with Wally and Kyle as the respective Flash and GL. The next generation after them was already set up with Impulse and any new character to take the mantle of GL. Due to this, DC has been stuck in the past and with Hal and Barry being around, Kyle and Wally became expendable. Kyle had some great resurgence but Wally has been basically written out once again of the DC Universe.

As much as I love Alex Ross's art, this comment irk the shit out of me and showed the mentality many, including himself and Johns had about how DC had evolved. To me, this still the company's biggest mistake and one of the biggest reasons why now you got 40 year old and not 10 year olds reading comic books[/QUOTE]Alex Ross: What you have is a bunch of 40-year-olds and thirtysomethings like myself. We grew up with this stuff thinking of it a certain way, and we’re rejecting what was kind of knocked around on us the last few years. Basically, what still is going on in modern continuity, especially at DC Comics, is a rejection of everything they did in the 1990s to compete with the then-hip-and-happening changes coming from the more tumultuous time of what Marvel and then Image comics did. We’re sort of in a repairing stage. Those of us who are kind of these Silver Age purists who think you don’t need to fix what isn’t broken, we’re getting our way because more of us are in control at the moment.[QUOTE]

fujishig

Alex Ross: What you have is a bunch of 40-year-olds and thirtysomethings like myself. We grew up with this stuff thinking of it a certain way, and we’re rejecting what was kind of knocked around on us the last few years. Basically, what still is going on in modern continuity, especially at DC Comics, is a rejection of everything they did in the 1990s to compete with the then-hip-and-happening changes coming from the more tumultuous time of what Marvel and then Image comics did. We’re sort of in a repairing stage. Those of us who are kind of these Silver Age purists who think you don’t need to fix what isn’t broken, we’re getting our way because more of us are in control at the moment.This is the problem with work for hire comic universes like Marvel and DC where different writers come in, write characters how they want to, and somehow all this continuity makes sense. Let me explain:

Ron Marz, or his editor, or whatever wants to revitalize the flagging sales of Green Lantern. Superman is about to die, Batman got his back broken, and those are events. So he decides let's go ahead and kill off Hal Jordan. Heck, let's not just kill him off, let's make him a villain who massacres all of his friends and goes against everything he has ever stood for, all so we can have a new rookie come and take over. Let's not give him a send off or anything, just straight up turn him into a villain for reasons. You have people who have read Hal Jordan Green Lantern for decades, who love the character, and boom the character is ruined. Ok, at least he's not forgotten, right? Let's take another example.

James Robinson wants to make sure everyone sees his character, the Mist, as a badass. In the span of one issue she infiltrates a branch of the Justice League and makes fools of and kills off Blue Devil, Crimson Fox and Amazing Man, and almost kills off Firestorm. Maybe like me you kind of liked Blue Devil from his solo series, and boom he's dead because a writer decided he was expendable.

You will always have people who "grew up with" a certain era of a superhero and long for that era. Quesada with a single Peter Parker. Johns with Hal Jordan and, for whatever reason, Barry Allen. Jeph Loeb with Kara Zor El (after Peter David did a masterful job with Matrix). Morrison with his pre-Crisis Superman power levels. And the fact is, you're going to yearn for that era. I yearn for Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans and Claremont/Byrne X-men and I get upset when the characters veer from that. But because of work for hire, the characters are very rarely consistent throughout the ages. And that's part of their appeal. When Brubaker took over Captain America, he gave him his own voice, same with Frank Miller on Daredevil, and others after them took some cues but otherwise changed the character as they saw fit. The Batman most people love is no the Kane/Finger Batman, same with the Liefeld Deadpool or Cable... it's a myriad of writers putting their mark on the characters, sometimes building, sometimes destroying. Over time this becomes baggage but comic books march on like the never ending and highly confusing soap operas that they are, just piling stuff on top and hoping the audience doesn't mind the character changes or continuity gaffes.

But DC tried an all new direction with the New 52 and for whatever reason it didn't stick, while also ticking off old time fans which resulted in going back with Rebirth, so it's a difficult thing to do. And I still haven't forgiven Quesada for One More Day. But Ross is right, whoever is in control at the moment is who determines continuity, and it's that way by design.

Josh-da-man

Get in line...

brayzie

I love Alex Ross's art but he definitely had some unprofessional fan entitlement going on. I remember he did a JLA poster of the individual members, and despite Kyle Rayner being Green Lantern at the time, he insisted that it be Hal Jordan. Are you making art for the readers or for yourself? A grown ass man working for DC Comics refusing to illustrate the character that young readers follow and identify with.

As far as Hal Jordan going crazy, even as a kid I thought that was bullshit and that the character got done dirty. I started reading regularly when Kyle was GL. When it got brought up later that he was Mexican I thought that was cool. Most Hispanic characters at the time had names like Jaguar, Aztek, El Diablo...so it was refreshing to see a character who just happened to be Mexican. I thought Kyle's costume was the best design. It was very 90s influenced but in my opinion, it still holds up today.

I hated the total retcon that Geoff Johns did because it came across so contrived, just a lot of fanboy indulgences going on. However, a lot of what happened to Hal Jordan was some bullshit to hop on the speculator comic craze, so if you're going to undo all that, Johns did it in the best way possible.

B5Erik

That was great. Now, it makes no sense that Guy would ever be selected to be a Lantern, nor does it make any sense that the Justice League would put up with him, but that was a great sequence there. (Even if the art was mediocre...)


I don't know jack about Kyle, and I'm a big fan of Hal Jordan, so I've got a lot of reading ahead of me. I got the Sector 2814 books, and they do a nice job of leading into the Vol 3 series (the first few issues of which were collected in The Road Back, which was EXCELLENT). I just wish there were more GL TPB collections from that era. Looks like great stuff!

I'm definitely a GL fan, just starting to get caught up. On which reality/continuity of DC I don't know, but I'm getting caught up!

fujishig

art was mediocre? What? Even early Maguire is awesome.

Only reason that bum Jordan got the ring before Guy was because he happened to be closer.

B5Erik

The faces in those pages look almost like they were drawn by a kids book artist. The bodies look like fairly good comic book art, but the faces just look off.

brayzie

The way Maguire drew facial expressions back then could come across as hardened-looking. But most definitely not like something a kid could draw. I think by the time his run on JLI ended his style got even better, and by the time he did the Super Buddies books he perfected it. Faces became more fluid and animated.

But he’s always had an excellent grasp of realistic facial expressions, anatomy and body movement. That’s what made his work so unique back then, while the more popular artists usually seemed to be only be able to draw faces with stoic expressions or grimacing with gritted teeth.

B5Erik

I meant drawn by an artist who illustrates books for kids.

brayzie

I see what you did there.



This is closer to how his current style looks.

B5Erik

He still draws a lot of faces without much detail. Not many lines, lots of empty space.

Some artists get WAY too detailed and draw too many lines, he doesn't draw enough. In the faces. It's just an odd style. Kind of like a modern Ditko, in a way, only less detailed when it comes to faces.

His art isn't bad, it's just... odd.

brayzie

I can't argue with you there. But to me, it's like watching an animated cartoon, something akin to an anime. Early on, him and Rubenstein still had a very "drawn" look to their characters. By the time of Super Buddies though, it became smoother. Now I believe Maguire just has his pencil work digitally inked. His work reminds me a bit of Alan Davis and Paul Neary's early stuff. They also got criticized in issues of "Detective Comics" for having a "cartoony" style.

I've heard good things about Emerald Dawn but never read it. The only really good Hal Jordan GL story I've read was in New Frontier. If you want a prequel to Hal Jordan's origin I'd recommend Alan Moore's "Tygers" story which appeared as a back-up in Green Lantern Corps Quarterly and can now be found in DC's Alan Moore collection.

PhantomStranger

Always liked Maguire's art. I think he tends to skimp on faces when meeting the demands of a monthly book. His one-offs have better-drawn faces.

fujishig

I've never heard someone complain about how Kevin Maguire draws faces. Even that early Justice League work, every face is expressive. Now he reuses expressions a lot, sure, but it certainly doesn't need more lines on faces (I realize there is a Liefeld thread).

He reminds me of someone like Paul Smith, where less can be more.

rocket1312

I always thought Maguire's faces were the most distinctive thing about his art. He's able to convey just about any expression with a few simple lines.

brayzie

Exactly. He might use a minimal amount of lines to do it in the final art, but you can tell that his rendering or sketching beforehand is probably more detailed to make sure he’s accurately capturing how the right placement for the facial muscles.

Looking up Maguire in Google,
I didn’t know that DC was giving him more work. Last time I knew he was doing a Metal Men back up. I was buying all his stuff at the time, including his Earth-2 World’s Finest featuring Huntress and Powergirl.

Hopefully my local comic shops will reopen. If they do, I’ll go back and try to get all the Maguire comics I’m missing from them.

It’s funny. Some artists from the late 80s peaked at some point and then their style worsens over time. Liefeld for example, but even McFarlane seems to have gotten too exaggerated to the point that he seems more like a Capullo clone, when it used to be the other way around. Maguire’s art though has only gotten better, and the advances in comic coloring and how they apply it to his work really complement it.

fujishig

I think at least a little part of it is practice. How often does McFarlane draw? Or even Liefeld? Also I said it before but I think I liked "clean" Capullo (Quasar era) better than McFarlane-like Capullo.

Another part is the inker, which can make a huge difference (like Kevin Nolan or Terry Austin). I love John Byrne, and his Uncanny X-men, Fantastic Four, Man of Steel, etc. will always look great to me, but man his Wonder Woman run had her just looking gaunt.

B5Erik

OK, so I got the first two Green Lantern by Geoff Johns TPB's, and I'm halfway through the first one. Really good stuff so far. GL is becoming one of my favorite characters, regardless of company.

I just really, REALLY wish that DC would put out a few trades covering the era following the Road Back TPB (the early 90's issues). I got the three Sector 2814 collections, which cover a good chunk of the 80's (and I'm about halfway through the first one of those, too), and I'm digging those as well.

GL is just a great character. It's just a shame that so much of his history is missing as far as reprints go.


And I should add - I like the John Stewart version of Green Lantern, too, and Guy Gardner seems to serve a purpose (an obnoxious, annoying superhero), but I haven't read enough of Kyle Rayner to really get a feel for that character.

PhantomStranger

Some enterprising people regularly scrape Penguin's website for scoops on upcoming DC trades and hardcovers. Indications are that more Green Lantern omnibuses and trades are coming, including big chunks of Rayner's time as main GL.

I was most excited to hear that the Legion of Super-heroes issues before The Great Darkness Saga are finally being collected in a hardcover.

B5Erik

I actually prefer the trade paperbacks like the ones for the Geoff Johns GL run, so I held off buying the Omnibi for his era hoping that we'd get volumes 5 & 6.

It doesn't look like that happened.

Are the issues that would have been included there in any other trades? I'd hate to buy the Omnibi at this point since I've got the 4 existing Geoff Johns GL trades.

B5Erik

And I found the answer to my question - the rest of Johns' run is available in other trades. I would have preferred that DC continue the Green Lantern by Geoff Johns series, but they stopped after Book 4 for some reason (back in 2020), so I'll buy the other trades as opposed to switching to the Omnibi.

I also picked up the Silver Age TPB Vol 3 recently. Great Gil Kane art. Silly stories, but the art is fantastic!