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Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Old 05-25-16, 01:03 PM
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Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

I decided to spoiler the title because it just came out today. I haven't read comics regularly in some time, but I just read this article from Time that Cap was just revealed as an Agent of Hydra, as in from the beginning.

I have a really hard time buying that.

http://time.com/4347224/captain-amer...-tom-brevoort/

Marvel Editor Explains How Captain America Was a Hydra Agent All Along

In a shocking twist, Steve Rogers always has been and will continue to be a member of the evil group


Sure, he wears red white and blue on the outside, but on the inside? It turns out Steve Rogers, a.k.a. Captain America, supports the evil, former Nazi organization, Hydra.

Marvel comics introduced the shocking twist Wednesday morning when Captain America: Steve Rogers #1 went on sale — and it turns out there have been hints that this was coming for a long time. TIME spoke with Marvel executive editor Tom Brevoort about the decision, the clues and why Hydra’s rhetoric sounds an awful lot like that of a certain presidential candidate.

TIME: How did Marvel decide to make Steve Rogers a secret Hydra operative?

Tom Brevoort: Nick Spencer, who is the writer of the series, pitched us the story as part and parcel of restoring Steve to his youth and vigor. In the comics, he’s been old for awhile. The super soldier serum that was keeping him young had been broken down, so for the 75th anniversary, Nick had this notion that we were going to restore him. But then we went into this other story about Hydra, and this is only the tip of the iceberg.

If readers go back and look at older comics, will this hold up?

It will. Issue 2 kind of winds the clock back a little bit and lays out exactly how and why things are the way they are. And it lays out a roadmap for where things are headed in the future. At this point, I don’t want to say too much definitively because I want people to read the comic books. But people will be able to connect the dots and follow the trail of breadcrumbs.

How long has this been in the works?

Almost since the beginning of when Nick started writing the Captain America titles, which would have been the end of 2014. So right around there the conversations first started about this. It’s been in the works for more than a year.

What does this mean for the Marvel Universe?

It means on the most fundamental level that the most trusted hero in the Marvel universe is now secretly a deep-cover Hydra operative, a fact that’s really only known to the readers and to him. That makes every interaction he has with anyone take on a second layer, a second meaning.

In the comic the Red Skull of Hydra talks about “criminal trespassers” who “make a mockery” of America’s borders and calls the refugees in Germany an “invading army” bringing “fanatical beliefs and crime” to Europe. Obviously, this hate speech is nothing new for the organization, but it sounds like rhetoric we’ve been hearing this election. Is that purposeful?

We try to write comics in 2016 that are about the world and the zeitgeist of 2016, particularly in Captain America. Nick Spencer, the writer, is very politically active. He’s a Capitol Hill head and following this election very closely. So we can talk about political issues in a metaphoric way. That’s what gives our stories weight and meat to them. Any parallels you have seen to situations real or imagined, living or dead, is probably intentional but metaphorically not literally.

What are we supposed to think about the fact that someone literally named Captain America now supports these beliefs?

Again, I don’t want to say anything too definitively because we’re laying out the story. But we want to push that button. There should be a feeling of horror or unsettledness at the idea that somebody like this can secretly be part of this organization. There are perfectly normal people in the world who you would interact with on a professional level or personal level, and they seem like the salt of the earth but then it turns out they have some horrible secret — whether it’s that they don’t like a certain group of people or have bodies buried in their basement.

You should feel uneasy about the fact that everything you know and love about Steve Rogers can be upended.

To ask the blunt question, is this a gimmick?

Every single month whether it’s a run of the mill month for Captain America or an extraordinary month, our job is to put him in situations that place that character under some degree of pressure and see how he reacts to that. And hopefully our readers are surprised, shocked, elated, see something of themselves, learn something about themselves. To say it’s a gimmick implies that it’s done heedlessly just to shock. The proof is always going to be in the execution. So you’ll have to read the rest of the story to see.

But I certainly believe it’s not a gimmick. It’s a story that we spent a long time on, that’s compelling and captures the zeitgeist of the world. It will make readers wonder how the heck we’ll get out of this.
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Old 05-25-16, 01:39 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Blah... stupid gimmicks are stupid.

This seems like a rehash of 'Secret Invasion' on a smaller scale. It's a 'cute' elsewheres style idea but I don't see it sticking.

This and Marvel announcing an upcoming 'shocking new status quo' (a second one after this recent 'all new all different' era) to follow Civil War II with Marvel Now really seems to blunt their credibility. It's a shame that comics seem geared to just race to the next big status shaking continuity wiping event.

Last edited by Undeadcow; 05-25-16 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 05-25-16, 01:42 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Mjolnir must also be an Agent of Hydra. It's the only possible explanation for how Steve was able to lift it.
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Old 05-25-16, 02:00 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

We know it won't be a permanent thing so it could be an okay storyline. I do get sort of tired of Marvel's endless gimmicks though over recent years such as changing race/gender of certain characters and completely changing Spider-Man from Peter Parker to Doc Ock (although truthfully The Superior Spider-Man was better than I expected).
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Old 05-25-16, 02:09 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Hmm, I'm open to it working as a story, but I'm not going to be rushing out to buy it.
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Old 05-25-16, 02:15 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

He is going to be revealed as a clone and the real CA is in suspended animation.
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Old 05-25-16, 02:29 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Another Marvel gimmick, another day. Just when I have started liking some of their recent output.
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Old 05-25-16, 03:58 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

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Old 05-25-16, 06:16 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
We know it won't be a permanent thing so it could be an okay storyline. I do get sort of tired of Marvel's endless gimmicks though over recent years such as changing race/gender of certain characters and completely changing Spider-Man from Peter Parker to Doc Ock (although truthfully The Superior Spider-Man was better than I expected).
Has it occured more often in recent years, or is it just part of the post-Shooter Marvel tradition?

I got into Marvel Comics when Spider-man wore a black costume, Thor was a horse faced alien, Iron Man was Jim Rhodes, and the Fantastic Four consisted of She-Hulk, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, and the Human Torch.


Originally Posted by Undeadcow View Post
Blah... stupid gimmicks are stupid.

This seems like a rehash of 'Secret Invasion' on a smaller scale. It's a 'cute' elsewheres style idea but I don't see it sticking.
It would make a great What If? but there's no way Steve Rogers was a Hydra agent all this time, unless he was a double agent, secretly trying to destroy Hydra from within.
Even IF they actually end the story with, "no, Cap really was a Hydra agent" the next writer will eventually undo it, explaining that it was an alternate reality that was created after Mephisto lost a bet to Dr. Manhattan.
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Old 05-25-16, 06:41 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
It would make a great What If? but there's no way Steve Rogers was a Hydra agent all this time, unless he was a double agent, secretly trying to destroy Hydra from within.
Even IF they actually end the story with, "no, Cap really was a Hydra agent" the next writer will eventually undo it, explaining that it was an alternate reality that was created after Mephisto lost a bet to Dr. Manhattan.
Yeah, i'm sure there's some retcon or triple agent junk that will be done to change this back sooner rather then later.
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Old 05-25-16, 06:56 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Yeah, that's a whole lot of shit to retcon to make this "twist" plausible.
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Old 05-25-16, 07:05 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by mrhan View Post
He is going to be revealed as a clone and the real CA is in suspended animation.
That concept could be used to bring the real Rogers back in the youthful, healthy form we know; it was the clone that aged due to the super soldier serum not cloning as perfectly in the clone's blood.

And besides, we all know how much everyone loves a long, drawn out clone saga!
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Old 05-25-16, 07:05 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Wasn't Iron Man revealed to be the traitor in the Avengers, and secretly working for Kang the Conqueror the entire time? Then the Avengers had to travel into an alternate timeline's past, and retrieve a teenage Tony Stark to help them defeat Kang and evil Tony. Teenage Tony became the new Iron Man,
But then that got undid with Onslaught and Heroes Reborn.

It was also revealed around that time that the Spider-man many of us had grown up reading was actually a clone, and Marvel wasn't playing this time either. Until later they said, "no, he was never a clone, he was the real deal."
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Old 05-25-16, 07:10 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by Undeadcow View Post
This seems like a rehash of 'Secret Invasion' on a smaller scale. It's a 'cute' elsewheres style idea but I don't see it sticking.
Oh yeah, when Secret Invasion was first announced, I thought it was a good way to explain how all these characters cheated death.

The non-Frank Miller Elektra turning out to be a Skrull for example, and finding out she truly was dead this entire time. That didn't happen though.
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Old 05-25-16, 08:27 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

That didn't take long. I wonder if Marvel ever takes a moment to think about what they are doing.


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Old 05-25-16, 09:13 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

This is why I don't buy Marvel comics anymore. They've decided getting cheap, free publicity for one day is worth repeatedly destroying the legacy of their own characters.

We all know it will be a hoax, a clone, or something along those lines.
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Old 05-25-16, 09:19 PM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Is Hydra even really still relevent? If Captain America is a secret agent for Hydra over decades he must be the most comedically inept spy ever. I havent been following a lot of recent events, and especially not the 'SHIELD' stuff but Hydra often strikes me as ' aka faceless disposable generic punch fodder.'
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Old 05-26-16, 12:47 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Marvel and DC are trying really hard to make sure I never read any of their comics again.
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Old 05-26-16, 01:05 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Oh good, it's been I the works since the end of 2014. I haven't read any Cap since then, and it leaves my beloved Brubaker run alone, so I guess I can safely ignore this "revelation" until the next writer undoes it. Nice art though.
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Old 05-26-16, 01:12 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Man, Brubaker's run was awesome.
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Old 05-26-16, 02:00 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Sounds stupid, even for Marvel.
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Old 05-26-16, 09:14 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
Marvel and DC are trying really hard to make sure I never read any of their comics again.
On Cap, I'm thinking there's a chance that they end up making the story make sense. Stranger scenarios have ending up working in comics. I'll wait to buy any of it until I hear that happens of course (and dollar prices).

But on DC, Rebirth knocks it out of the park dude.
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Old 05-26-16, 10:14 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

I don't read comics, but can definitely see why people are upset. Right now, it seems ridiculous. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out.
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Old 05-26-16, 10:22 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Typical Marvel. Cap movie makes over a Billion dollars. Comics turn him bad.

Good thing people dont go into comic stores after seeing the movies, or why would be all WTF.
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Old 05-26-16, 10:51 AM
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Re: Steve Rogers, Agent of... (SPOILERS)

Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
On Cap, I'm thinking there's a chance that they end up making the story make sense. Stranger scenarios have ending up working in comics. I'll wait to buy any of it until I hear that happens of course (and dollar prices).

But on DC, Rebirth knocks it out of the park dude.
Right, and in 18 months all the events of Rebirth will be retconned to establish whatever new status quo DC thinks will boost sales forever, only to discover once again that it worked for 1-2 months.

Last edited by Supermallet; 05-26-16 at 12:22 PM.
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