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The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

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The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Old 02-19-15, 11:11 AM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

^ More concise posts like this, taffer. Good info.
Old 02-19-15, 11:49 AM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I know the triangle numbers mattered when it came to big events like "Death of Superman," but did they reflect the actual continuity of the four Superman titles? Were they treated like a weekly series? Or were they four separate concurrent storylines like the Spider-Man books were back in the 80's and 90's? I never read Superman, but I always assumed the latter was true which I would think would make it more confusing if you're trying to read all of the issues in story order (rather than published order).
Old 02-19-15, 12:05 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

During the Triangle Era, it was kinda both. Big storylines like Doomsday or Reign of the Supermen were told as an ongoing, weekly storyline. In-between storylines, each title had it's own distinct style and characters but still existed within the weekly format.

I remember a background story that was being told in Superman: Man of Steel that had nothing to do with the ongoing story taking place in the rest of the titles. I believe it was a vampire story. Each month, MoS would devote a few pages developing that story but most of the issue dealt with whatever was going on with the rest of the books.
Old 02-19-15, 12:14 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Yeah, the triangles actually kept an order of reading, where each comic could focus on their own stories but the backstories would build. This didn't always work, mainly because there were different creators on each title, but it did take a lot of precise editorial coordination/juggling.

But again on the numbering issue, I don't think the companies care about backissues, and the comic book stores usually don't (except for the pain of cataloging all this stuff). Heck, they stopped doing the "you can read what happened to Spidey in Spider-man 52, on sale now, true believer!" blurbs a long time ago. They want you to collect the trades. And even those sometimes aren't numbered or it's hard to keep track of order, so maybe they don't care at all, just keep taking the monthly dose of drugs and don't worry about the past.
Old 02-19-15, 12:54 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I really, really despise all the renumbering done by Marvel and DC. I think both companies realized the high numbers were free advertising for older back issues, which they don't get a cut in sales. One of the first reasons why I started buying back issues many years ago was to see earlier issues of the monthlies I was currently reading.
Publishers already got a cut of the back issues when the issues were sold to the stores the first time, at least from the 1970s-80s and beyond. That's kind of how the whole direct market system works. Stores buy comics from the distributor and the publisher gets their cut. Comics are non-returnable. Unsold comics go into the back issue bins. Stores would rather sell the back issues for $1 to offset the loss they potentially took on that unsold book. If stores buy more back issues from customers, then it's just the same as any secondary market.
Old 02-19-15, 02:04 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I realize that but those cheaper back issues were competing with new product sold by Marvel and DC. I understand that the back issue market has drastically changed since eBay came around, I don't think it's the gateway drug to comics that it once was. I know many retail comic book stores have greatly pared down their back issue supply in recent years.
Old 05-10-15, 08:40 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

So is anyone actually reading Convergence?
Old 05-10-15, 10:08 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Im up to date in the main story and most of the tie ins. I enjoyed 0-3 last two issues have really dragged to me like its all filler to make it last longer....ill stick with it. tie ins are very hit or miss
Old 05-10-15, 10:15 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I'm picking up the main series and a few of the tie-ins. Bit disappointed that the main Convergence series is mainly a continuation of the Earth-2 titles. I agree the tie-ins are hit and miss.

DC: Remember all the characters you wanted us to bring back? Well, here they are and now... they're fighting to the death! Enjoy.
Old 05-11-15, 11:53 AM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Originally Posted by terrycloth View Post
Im up to date in the main story and most of the tie ins. I enjoyed 0-3 last two issues have really dragged to me like its all filler to make it last longer....ill stick with it. tie ins are very hit or miss
Considering it's an "event" to cover their move from coast to coast, putting all regular titles on hiatus, some of it probably was written as filler.
Old 05-11-15, 04:24 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Just wiki'd Convergence. Sounds like some typical Crisis story/continuity indulgence.

I feel like DC was trying to hype The New 52 as something new and exciting but it didn't come across that way. Morrison's approach to Batman & Robin seemed so much more new and exciting than anything the reboot tried to do. You had Bruce Wayne dead, a brand new Batman and Robin, with new costumes, a new base of operation, and new villains and arch enemies. Once Morrison brought back Bruce Wayne it was getting back to business as usual, but the point is, when you put quality writer and artists together, big changes are usually accepted better.

Current DCU sounds the same as the old one. Multiple Earths, same ol' superheroes.
Old 05-11-15, 04:56 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

The New 52 was new mainly because it was a new starting on point, where everything rebooted at once and new readers could jump on (and old readers could jump off) easily. Except for Green Lantern and Batman, because hey, people were actually reading those and the creators had a lot of pull. And Legion of Superheroes. And hey, now that we've made the age of superheroes start in the very recent past, let's put the JSA in another Earth, where they become newbies after the death of the silver age heroes. That makes sense, right? I mean it's not like people actually enjoyed the JSA being the older, wiser generation of superheroes, let's just turn that on its head.

But make sure that Jim Lee gives everyone v collars, that's important.
Old 05-11-15, 09:15 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
The New 52 was new mainly because it was a new starting on point, where everything rebooted at once and new readers could jump on (and old readers could jump off) easily.

But make sure that Jim Lee gives everyone v collars, that's important.
They should have got Frank Quitely to redesign some of those costumes. I didn't like the new Wonder Woman but I can see why some people did like it. It was unique in it's style and intent.
The rest though...I don't know.
Visually the comics didn't look very "new".

Compare:
from 2006


to this in 2011

Last edited by brayzie; 05-11-15 at 09:23 PM.
Old 09-21-21, 03:41 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Polygon just posted an oral history of the New 52. Although only a handful of people contributed, there's some really intriguing stuff in there, such as how Paul Cornell's original concept for what would become Demon Knights involved a medieval Justice League, Editorial being so chaotic that the Court of Owls finale was ordered to be rewritten when it was already at the printer, and:

he literally rearranged the page order after the art had been finished, not to tell the same story in a different way, but to complete a completely different story, which I then had to write dialogue for and follow up with something that made even slight sense in an already-prepared second issue!
I didn't really see tone mentioned throughout, which was one of the things that so quickly turned me off about the New 52.
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Old 09-21-21, 03:52 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I remember the Flash solicits for after Flashpoint came out before the new 52 and it was obvious that the plan had been radically changed. Also Morrison's "flashback" run on Action seemed really out of place.

I love Scott Snyder's reaction while he was shopping at Target to that Court of Owls nonsense.

I wonder if that unnamed creator is Liefeld or someone else who was upset. I remember Liefeld being really upset when he left about editorial interference.
Old 09-21-21, 04:25 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
Polygon just posted an oral history of the New 52. Although only a handful of people contributed, there's some really intriguing stuff in there, such as how Paul Cornell's original concept for what would become Demon Knights involved a medieval Justice League, Editorial being so chaotic that the Court of Owls finale was ordered to be rewritten when it was already at the printer, and:



I didn't really see tone mentioned throughout, which was one of the things that so quickly turned me off about the New 52.
Once they introduced those ugly new costumes to the readers, the project was doomed.
Old 09-22-21, 12:11 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

That was a great read. Dido still trying to act like it was a good idea.

By the last month of the New 52, DC’s share of the comic book direct market had fallen to 26.34 percent — down from its 34.76 percent share the month before the New 52 had launched in 2011 — while the rest of the direct market had grown significantly in the interim.


Old 09-22-21, 12:20 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Even though I hated the New 52, I do think they had to do something because the properties that should have been big guns (Superman, Justice League, basically anything not Batman and Green Lantern, which they didn't touch) were floundering badly. But doing it without a master plan in place, shoehorning it into Flashpoint, and then just completely getting rid of continuity was probably a mistake. I said it before but that weaned me off collecting monthly comics pretty much completely (I collected both Legion titles and Action for a few months and then dropped them).

And as great as the more off beat stuff like Demon Knights and Animal Man were, they had that before the reboot with things like the Bryan Q. Miller Steph/Batgirl and Jeff Lemire's Superboy.
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Old 09-22-21, 01:07 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

There was a brief window where the New 52 inspired me to buy more DC comics on a monthly basis than I probably ever had, but I kept dropping books week after week, and I'm not sure I kept reading any after #6. It was the first time in ages I can remember not buying any DC comics at all. I liked plenty of the not-superhero books (especially Demon Knights and Animal Man, as fujishig said) and a couple of the more conventional comics (Wonder Woman), but too little else made a positive impression. That first arc in Justice League had some of the most cringeworthy dialogue I'd ever suffered through.
Old 09-22-21, 03:01 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
Even though I hated the New 52, I do think they had to do something because the properties that should have been big guns (Superman, Justice League, basically anything not Batman and Green Lantern, which they didn't touch) were floundering badly.
They could of just simply announced Lois and Clark were expecting twins and comic book sales for Action and Superman would have increased.
Old 09-22-21, 03:19 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I remember this touching a nerve in the industry

I mean, everybody was so worried about [offering digital releases on the same sale date as physical for the first time] and it didn’t make any dent into the physical sales at all. It hit a certain plateau and never really changed in the five years of the New 52. I thought that was always intriguing, that everybody was saying “Come on, digital comics is going to be where it’s at.” It might be a reading spot for people. I’m not sure if it’s a buying spot for people.
One of the bad things about the New 52 relaunch is that old school LCS retailers, which were the majority at the time, publicly opposed to the reboot. Didio and DC did a horrible job selling it to them and in return, retailers shit all over the New 52 launch before the first book hadn't come out. This became gatekeeping at its finest as retailers were so adamant against the change, they drove away customers by not ordering as many copies as they should or bad mouthing the product before they got to see it. Newer and big time retailers did the opposite, and pushed the product as they saw the opportunity for new customers to start fresh.

The other huge problem was that the flagship launch title, Justice League, was really bad. The storyline was basic, the costume designs didn't make sense (how does all these superheroes, who never met before, had the same costume design?) and just like the Snyder movie, they faced the big bad from the get go, instead of a lesser threat.

Still, the N52 really cemented Scott Snyder, Jeff Lemire, Charles Soule among others as top writers in the business.
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Old 09-22-21, 04:26 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I think day and date digital was a big thing, but (at least my thinking was) comic prices are inflated by printing/shipping costs, so it makes no sense to buy digital for the same (inflated) price. Now digital sales (like the frequent 99c sales) are another thing, and having that option around in case you missed a back issue but still wanted to read it is (to me) important. That's how I bought most of my New 52 stuff long after I stopped getting the physical issues.

I will never understand comic book stores working against their best interests in this case...
Old 09-22-21, 05:28 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

I just recently gave up on Marvel and DC, but I really think they should do away with the reboots and continuity and just let creators tell fun stories. They need to stop the crossovers. Those kill slow build story lines. Take any Bat book for instance. You have a great concept and maybe it is going to run a solid 12 issues, but you unfortunately have to stop at issue 4 because it is time for the latest Bat universe crossover. The you put out a few more issues and then have to shoe horn in something to make it fit with the latest Crisis Event. I would rather have the companies just let the creators make good stories and not worry about anything else but that story.
Old 09-22-21, 05:51 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

They do that now. In fact they do both.

They have a built in audience for the large continuity stuff, that wants all this interconnectivity and are willing to pay for it. It makes no sense for them to just abandon that model completely.

But they've done stuff like All Star and Earth 2 and the young adult stuff that are pretty much completely divorced from continuity and just lets creators do what they want with the characters. Even back in the day they did Elseworlds and things like Watchmen and Vertigo. So you can have a book like Superman Smashes the Klan without having to weave it into a specific era, or something like All Star Superman which references familiar things in continuity but does it's own thing. The thing is, unless the creative team is already popular or well known, these are usually really hard sells because of the nature of the comic book industry.
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Old 09-22-21, 08:52 PM
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Re: The New 52 ends (Kinda...)

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
They do that now. In fact they do both.

They have a built in audience for the large continuity stuff, that wants all this interconnectivity and are willing to pay for it. It makes no sense for them to just abandon that model completely.

But they've done stuff like All Star and Earth 2 and the young adult stuff that are pretty much completely divorced from continuity and just lets creators do what they want with the characters. Even back in the day they did Elseworlds and things like Watchmen and Vertigo. So you can have a book like Superman Smashes the Klan without having to weave it into a specific era, or something like All Star Superman which references familiar things in continuity but does it's own thing. The thing is, unless the creative team is already popular or well known, these are usually really hard sells because of the nature of the comic book industry.
Exactly. Marvel had their "Crisis" with the 2015-2016 Secret Wars event that put everything into 1 universe, but as we have seen over the past couple of years, they worked and teased about the multiverse being out there, which should be as Reed Richards restored it at the end of Secret Wars.

DC is the one that works with the idea of the multiverse even more and is focusing on self contained stories at the same time they do events in other books. Tom King has already done a Mister Miracle and Rorschach maxi-series with a new Human Target coming soon. All of these series are self contained and from my understanding, they aren't part of the main Earth stories.

People love to complain, but I've said for years that we are at a good point creatively in terms of comic books. Could the big 2 improve some? Yes, specially DC which is too Bat-centric, but in general, there are comic books for everyone. Tons of great indy books out there, great superhero stories from the big 2, and even some great capes and tights stories from the independents.

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