DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
#1826
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
#1827
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Divx Comics.
I read Forever Evil and it's not bad. I'm definitely interested in seeing where the story goes.
From what I understand, only a few of the villain books tie into Forever Evil (like Grodd & Two-Face). Most were origin or one-shot stories.
I stuck with the 2D versions and only picked up titles I was interested in reading. It's not the 90s anymore. I should thank taffer for reminding me of that.
I read Forever Evil and it's not bad. I'm definitely interested in seeing where the story goes.
From what I understand, only a few of the villain books tie into Forever Evil (like Grodd & Two-Face). Most were origin or one-shot stories.
I stuck with the 2D versions and only picked up titles I was interested in reading. It's not the 90s anymore. I should thank taffer for reminding me of that.
#1828
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
You're welcome I guess.
Although if these 3D covers are prone to melting, maybe they will actually be rare and worth something in the future.
I heard the Joker issue gave Joker an definitive origin. I haven't read it, so I can't confirm it, but that's what I heard.
Fuck the New 52 giving definitive origins to characters that worked best being ambiguous. First Phantom Stranger and now Joker...
Yeah, I know The Killing Joke gave an origin story too, but Joker was narrating it, and he was an unreliable narrator because he says he can't remember what actually happened and was basically making it up as he went along.
Although if these 3D covers are prone to melting, maybe they will actually be rare and worth something in the future.
I heard the Joker issue gave Joker an definitive origin. I haven't read it, so I can't confirm it, but that's what I heard.
Fuck the New 52 giving definitive origins to characters that worked best being ambiguous. First Phantom Stranger and now Joker...
Yeah, I know The Killing Joke gave an origin story too, but Joker was narrating it, and he was an unreliable narrator because he says he can't remember what actually happened and was basically making it up as he went along.
#1829
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
DC manages to once again piss off their employees. The Batwoman creative team is leaving after issue #26 due to editorial influence.
Dear Batwoman readers -
From the moment DC asked us to write Batwoman — a dream project for both of us — we were committed to the unofficial tagline “No Status Quo.” We felt that the series and characters should always be moving forward, to keep changing and evolving. In order to live up to our mantra and ensure that each arc took Batwoman in new directions, we carefully planned plotlines and story beats for at least the first five arcs well before we ever wrote a single issue. We’ve been executing on that plan ever since, making changes whenever we’ve come up with a better idea, but in general remaining consistent to our core vision.
Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.
We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.
We’re both heartbroken over leaving, but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression.
We are extremely thankful for the opportunity to work on Batwoman. It’s been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of our careers. We’ll always be grateful to everyone who helped us realize 26 issues: Mike Siglain, who brought us onto the project originally; Greg Rucka for inspirationally setting the stage; our amazing artists Amy Reeder, Trevor McCarthy, Pere Perez, Rob Hunter, Walden Wong, Sandu Florea, Richard Friend, Francesco Francavilla, Guy Major, Dave Stewart, and Todd Klein; Larry Ganem, for listening in tough times; and editors Mike Marts, Harvey Richards, Rickey Purdin, and Darren Shan.
And most of all, a huge thank you to everyone who read the book. Hearing your voices, your reactions, your enthusiasm every month was such a joy, so humbling, so rewarding. You guys rock! Because so many of you embraced the series, we were able to complete four arcs, and your passion for Batwoman encouraged us to push ourselves to do our best work with each and every issue.
Thank you for loving Batwoman as much as we do.
Goodbye for now,
Haden & J H
Dear Batwoman readers -
From the moment DC asked us to write Batwoman — a dream project for both of us — we were committed to the unofficial tagline “No Status Quo.” We felt that the series and characters should always be moving forward, to keep changing and evolving. In order to live up to our mantra and ensure that each arc took Batwoman in new directions, we carefully planned plotlines and story beats for at least the first five arcs well before we ever wrote a single issue. We’ve been executing on that plan ever since, making changes whenever we’ve come up with a better idea, but in general remaining consistent to our core vision.
Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.
We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.
We’re both heartbroken over leaving, but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression.
We are extremely thankful for the opportunity to work on Batwoman. It’s been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of our careers. We’ll always be grateful to everyone who helped us realize 26 issues: Mike Siglain, who brought us onto the project originally; Greg Rucka for inspirationally setting the stage; our amazing artists Amy Reeder, Trevor McCarthy, Pere Perez, Rob Hunter, Walden Wong, Sandu Florea, Richard Friend, Francesco Francavilla, Guy Major, Dave Stewart, and Todd Klein; Larry Ganem, for listening in tough times; and editors Mike Marts, Harvey Richards, Rickey Purdin, and Darren Shan.
And most of all, a huge thank you to everyone who read the book. Hearing your voices, your reactions, your enthusiasm every month was such a joy, so humbling, so rewarding. You guys rock! Because so many of you embraced the series, we were able to complete four arcs, and your passion for Batwoman encouraged us to push ourselves to do our best work with each and every issue.
Thank you for loving Batwoman as much as we do.
Goodbye for now,
Haden & J H
#1830
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I saw that about Batwoman on Twitter earlier. It seems DC wants to be gay for attention (Alan Scott) but not gay for reals (Kate & Maggie). And given the debacle of Forever Evil, I can't for the life of me fathom what the hell difference it would have made if they'd just let these guys give Killer Croc whatever origin they had in mind for him.
I think what's actually surprising about this is that so far, Batwoman was the one Bat-book that seemed to have some kind of autonomy. They've been allowed to adhere to their serialized graphic novel concept without being roped into "Night of the Owls" or "Death of the Family", and it's one of the books that was skipped during this month's "Forever Evil" mess. In fact, to date its only participation in any of the events was last year's #0 issue - which was confusing enough since there had already been a Batwoman #0 that was considered part of this series, published prior to The New 52 launch.
Other than the shady way they treated Amy Reeder, the word of mouth on this book had been pretty positive. They won some acclaim for it, including an award from GLAAD as I recall. DC made sure to tout that recognition at the time. I'm sure their official line would be something about how they didn't feel that Kate should marry right now, and that it wasn't about Maggie or their being two women, etc. But there's something about the way DC has behaved about everything else so far that makes me think they originally bought a Kate/Maggie relationship because someone thought it would be hot and then when they found it was, you know, like an actual relationship with "emotions" and "maturity" and whatnot, they were like, "Booooooring!"
I think what's actually surprising about this is that so far, Batwoman was the one Bat-book that seemed to have some kind of autonomy. They've been allowed to adhere to their serialized graphic novel concept without being roped into "Night of the Owls" or "Death of the Family", and it's one of the books that was skipped during this month's "Forever Evil" mess. In fact, to date its only participation in any of the events was last year's #0 issue - which was confusing enough since there had already been a Batwoman #0 that was considered part of this series, published prior to The New 52 launch.
Other than the shady way they treated Amy Reeder, the word of mouth on this book had been pretty positive. They won some acclaim for it, including an award from GLAAD as I recall. DC made sure to tout that recognition at the time. I'm sure their official line would be something about how they didn't feel that Kate should marry right now, and that it wasn't about Maggie or their being two women, etc. But there's something about the way DC has behaved about everything else so far that makes me think they originally bought a Kate/Maggie relationship because someone thought it would be hot and then when they found it was, you know, like an actual relationship with "emotions" and "maturity" and whatnot, they were like, "Booooooring!"
#1832
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
http://hasdcdonesomethingstupidtoday.com/
It has been 0 days since DC Comics did something stupid.
Previously, DC went less than 1 day without doing something stupid.
Previously, DC went less than 1 day without doing something stupid.
#1833
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
http://comicsalliance.com/batwoman-j...rial-marriage/
That said, it's a shame about that editorial edict. It seems like Kate and Maggie had a real, organic relationship, and it seems like marriage would have been a natural step.
#1834
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Actually, it was about just marriage specifically, not gay marriage, as admitted by Haden, and confirmed by DC:
http://comicsalliance.com/batwoman-j...rial-marriage/
That said, it's a shame about that editorial edict. It seems like Kate and Maggie had a real, organic relationship, and it seems like marriage would have been a natural step.
http://comicsalliance.com/batwoman-j...rial-marriage/
That said, it's a shame about that editorial edict. It seems like Kate and Maggie had a real, organic relationship, and it seems like marriage would have been a natural step.
At a time when the LGTBQ community is celebrating major victories for marriage equality, it seems pointless for DC to deny Batwoman readers that vicarious victory without any stronger editorial reason than a reluctance toward marriage for their characters. It'd be one thing if the relationship and marriage proposal had been a stunt of some kind, but it's been, as you said, a real, organic relationship. The characters deserve a wedding and so do the readers.
#1835
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
This is consistent with the clumsy and obsolete views held by DC. In the past, the thinking against having a superhero get married is that the readers find domesticity boring and that, on some level, readers like the idea of heroes being unattached and able to score. Even if those views are still common, they don't apply to Kate and Maggie. Readers really responded to their relationship. It was the best thing about the book through the two arcs I've read. Hell, their relationship is easily one of the best things about The New 52.
At a time when the LGTBQ community is celebrating major victories for marriage equality, it seems pointless for DC to deny Batwoman readers that vicarious victory without any stronger editorial reason than a reluctance toward marriage for their characters. It'd be one thing if the relationship and marriage proposal had been a stunt of some kind, but it's been, as you said, a real, organic relationship. The characters deserve a wedding and so do the readers.
At a time when the LGTBQ community is celebrating major victories for marriage equality, it seems pointless for DC to deny Batwoman readers that vicarious victory without any stronger editorial reason than a reluctance toward marriage for their characters. It'd be one thing if the relationship and marriage proposal had been a stunt of some kind, but it's been, as you said, a real, organic relationship. The characters deserve a wedding and so do the readers.
#1836
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
But, of course, no one asked me.
#1837
Senior Member
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Dan DiDio made a comment on Twitter today about Batwoman needing to be more integrated into the larger shared universe. Apparently whatever crossing-over into the rest of the New 52 Universe she had done thus far wasn't enough, and perhaps those themselves were just editorial mandates of the time. I wouldn't be surprised if the new creative team was forced to bring her into the fold with the rest of the Bat-events and stop having her (largely) hang out in her own corner of the New 52 universe. Moreso than not wanting anyone, gay or straight, to be married, it seems like editorial wanted Batwoman to be more integrated to probably build up awareness of her for movies/TVs/toys/video games/etc. GLAAD awards or Eisner nominations are nice but for Warners/DC, they're not extra money and they're not as marketable as Batwoman being tied into the next Bat-event and/or joining some other team book. JHW3 wasn't going to be able to tell the stories he wanted to tell (including a marriage), so he walked. Even if there was no marriage in play I'm sure they would have pushed his buttons in a way to make him quit like they have with multiple other writers and artists. The DC editors either need to write the books themselves or just find writers who are slaves to the vision of the DC editors.
#1838
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Moreso than not wanting anyone, gay or straight, to be married, it seems like editorial wanted Batwoman to be more integrated to probably build up awareness of her for movies/TVs/toys/video games/etc.
Aside from DiDio's fixation on teamups and crossovers, I think the other chief problem is that Williams and Blackman have essentially crafted Batwoman as a serialization of graphic novels. Their arcs are conceived five, six months ahead of time, and clearly DC is more interested in being able to micromanage on the fly. Which, you know, seems like a brilliant way to promote quality storytelling.
The DC editors either need to write the books themselves or just find writers who are slaves to the vision of the DC editors.
#1839
Banned by request
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Seems like so long ago that they were giving Alan Moore and Frank Miller almost whatever they wanted to craft engaging, original stories. Granted, many of those were not in continuity, but there's no way you could find something as good as Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing in a mainstream DC comic today.
Also, DC really fucked up with this one: http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...-outraged.html
Basically, DC had a half good idea; let readers submit panels for a Harley Quinn comic, and give them a chance to connect with people in the industry. They then required that one of the panels be Harley naked in a bathtub as she prepares to commit suicide. This did not go over well. It did not go over well at all. The writers then explain that these panels were actually being done as a spoof, that Harley is breaking the fourth wall and complaining about how she's being treated by DC. But none of that was communicated beforehand.
Also, DC really fucked up with this one: http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...-outraged.html
Basically, DC had a half good idea; let readers submit panels for a Harley Quinn comic, and give them a chance to connect with people in the industry. They then required that one of the panels be Harley naked in a bathtub as she prepares to commit suicide. This did not go over well. It did not go over well at all. The writers then explain that these panels were actually being done as a spoof, that Harley is breaking the fourth wall and complaining about how she's being treated by DC. But none of that was communicated beforehand.
#1840
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Also, DC really fucked up with this one: http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...-outraged.html
Oh, and I actually made the mistake of reading the comments, too.
#1841
Suspended
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Seems like so long ago that they were giving Alan Moore and Frank Miller almost whatever they wanted to craft engaging, original stories. Granted, many of those were not in continuity, but there's no way you could find something as good as Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing in a mainstream DC comic today.
Also, DC really fucked up with this one: http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...-outraged.html
Basically, DC had a half good idea; let readers submit panels for a Harley Quinn comic, and give them a chance to connect with people in the industry. They then required that one of the panels be Harley naked in a bathtub as she prepares to commit suicide. This did not go over well. It did not go over well at all. The writers then explain that these panels were actually being done as a spoof, that Harley is breaking the fourth wall and complaining about how she's being treated by DC. But none of that was communicated beforehand.
Also, DC really fucked up with this one: http://www.theouthousers.com/index.p...-outraged.html
Basically, DC had a half good idea; let readers submit panels for a Harley Quinn comic, and give them a chance to connect with people in the industry. They then required that one of the panels be Harley naked in a bathtub as she prepares to commit suicide. This did not go over well. It did not go over well at all. The writers then explain that these panels were actually being done as a spoof, that Harley is breaking the fourth wall and complaining about how she's being treated by DC. But none of that was communicated beforehand.
It's four disconnected panels. If you're looking to do a contest where people can show off how well they can pencil a page of sequential art, give them a page of sequential art. How is any editor supposed to judge how weel the artist can handle panel-to-panel continuity, storytelling, transitions, or any of the other artistic elements of comic book art?
DC is stupid.
#1842
Banned by request
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Yep. All they had to do was list any other four panels and it would have been fine. The issue would have appeared, the offending panels would have been in their proper context, and someone would have gotten their art featured in it. It's just unbelievable that DC could be this utterly retarded.
#1843
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
This is consistent with the clumsy and obsolete views held by DC. In the past, the thinking against having a superhero get married is that the readers find domesticity boring and that, on some level, readers like the idea of heroes being unattached and able to score. Even if those views are still common, they don't apply to Kate and Maggie. Readers really responded to their relationship. It was the best thing about the book through the two arcs I've read. Hell, their relationship is easily one of the best things about The New 52.
At a time when the LGTBQ community is celebrating major victories for marriage equality, it seems pointless for DC to deny Batwoman readers that vicarious victory without any stronger editorial reason than a reluctance toward marriage for their characters. It'd be one thing if the relationship and marriage proposal had been a stunt of some kind, but it's been, as you said, a real, organic relationship. The characters deserve a wedding and so do the readers.
At a time when the LGTBQ community is celebrating major victories for marriage equality, it seems pointless for DC to deny Batwoman readers that vicarious victory without any stronger editorial reason than a reluctance toward marriage for their characters. It'd be one thing if the relationship and marriage proposal had been a stunt of some kind, but it's been, as you said, a real, organic relationship. The characters deserve a wedding and so do the readers.
Marrying them off now would basically confine that character to being married for time immemorial. It would greatly limit the type of stories you could do for Batwoman.
#1844
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I've grown to absolutely despise these gimmicks but they seem to work on comic book readers.
I think I understand where DC is coming from on the lesbian marriage issue. It would be a public relations nightmare in the future for DC if they ever went in another direction with the character and divorced them or discarded the marriage.
Marrying them off now would basically confine that character to being married for time immemorial. It would greatly limit the type of stories you could do for Batwoman.
I think I understand where DC is coming from on the lesbian marriage issue. It would be a public relations nightmare in the future for DC if they ever went in another direction with the character and divorced them or discarded the marriage.
Marrying them off now would basically confine that character to being married for time immemorial. It would greatly limit the type of stories you could do for Batwoman.
#1845
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Why are they rebooting these franchise's!? I want them to just keep the same stuff they have and start a justice league movie. By now we will never get one.
#1846
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I think I understand where DC is coming from on the lesbian marriage issue. It would be a public relations nightmare in the future for DC if they ever went in another direction with the character and divorced them or discarded the marriage.
Marrying them off now would basically confine that character to being married for time immemorial. It would greatly limit the type of stories you could do for Batwoman.
Marrying them off now would basically confine that character to being married for time immemorial. It would greatly limit the type of stories you could do for Batwoman.
#1848
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
DC has made it clear they're anti-married superheroes in general. Heck, they just said that Mera is no longer married to Aquaman, despite the fact that she was introduced in the New 52 as his queen.
#1849
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
They commented on that. She may be Aquaman's queen but at no time in the New52 has she ever been referred to as his "wife." Just "Queen."
Yes. DC has no idea WTF they're doing or saying.
We then clarified that, against expectations, Aquaman and Mera were no longer married in New 52 continuity. And that Geoff Johns had very carefully written them in Aquaman and Justice League as if they were still married but had avoided any mention of that fact, or anyone actually referring to them as “husband” or “wife” of the other.
Yes. DC has no idea WTF they're doing or saying.
Last edited by The Valeyard; 09-08-13 at 12:51 PM.
#1850
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Well, those two examples met with a firestorm of criticism and many fans abandoned the books over those two "divorces." Some completely stopped reading Marvel Comics after Spidey's divorce. But the issue would get magnified in the mainstream press with gay and lesbian characters.