DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
#476
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Ah that makes sense then, I didnt know Perez was doing breakdowns also.
#477
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Zero Hour really wasn't much of a reboot, though that's how it was presented. Other than some important stuff with Hal Jordan, I don't really recall a lot of major, permanent effects from that series to the DCU at large (though I may have overlooked or forgotten some things). I remember the prelude to Zero Hour involving a lot of time-warp stories (like Barbara Gordon as Batgirl in an issue of either Batman or Detective Comics), but those were basically just one-off little indulgences that were erased by the end of the whole thing. Then every series had its #0 issue after the mini-series that basically told an "at the beginning" story and then it was pretty much back to business as usual for most series.
#478
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
By the way, a friend of mine lent me Superman/Gen13 and I read it last night. The premise is pretty simple: the Gen13 kids take a field trip to Metropolis, which they're convinced is mind-numbing dull and then they run into Superman, whom they're convinced is superlame. As Clark Kent, he hears their criticisms and takes it to heart. Lois counsels him by reminding him that he once told her (speaking as/of Superman), "I was never fashionable, so I can never be unfashionable." She goes on to tell him:
"...Superman isn't a---a fad, something you outgrow and get nostalgic about twenty years later--! Superman's...Superman's the one thing you can always count on, Clark."
It's a shame DC doesn't have any confidence in Lois Lane, who probably knows a thing or two about Superman. Incidentally, Adam Hughes wrote that mini-series.
#479
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Spoiler:
Hawkman post-Zero Hour
Hawkman gained a new series, but it went poorly, clearing up very little confusion with the previous issues. A new feature was the Hawk Avatar was introduced, who was a mythical creature, a champion of the creatures in human form. In a mini-series called Zero Hour, they used this opportunity to correct the continuity, by combining of versions of Hawkman while retaining the appearance of Katar Hol. However, most readers thought that it confused rather than helped. In the end, various Hawk Avatars were banished into the realm of Hawk God.
With Zero Hour, the launch of five new series likewise went poorly, as only one was successful, and that one, Starman, was successful only because it incorporated Golden Age characters. During this time, JLA was successful and JSA was also relaunched as all three new series were tied in to each other.
Hawkman gained a new series, but it went poorly, clearing up very little confusion with the previous issues. A new feature was the Hawk Avatar was introduced, who was a mythical creature, a champion of the creatures in human form. In a mini-series called Zero Hour, they used this opportunity to correct the continuity, by combining of versions of Hawkman while retaining the appearance of Katar Hol. However, most readers thought that it confused rather than helped. In the end, various Hawk Avatars were banished into the realm of Hawk God.
With Zero Hour, the launch of five new series likewise went poorly, as only one was successful, and that one, Starman, was successful only because it incorporated Golden Age characters. During this time, JLA was successful and JSA was also relaunched as all three new series were tied in to each other.
#480
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Ironically, while one of the new series, Fate, totally destroyed a cherished Golden Age character, another new series, Starman, can probably be credited with renewing interest in the Golden Age JSA. In Zero Hour, some of them were re-aged/killed by Extant, but that laid the groundwork for Goyer, Robinson, and Johns's JSA, with a mix of old and new.
And now that the last couple of years of post-Johns JSA has driven that franchise into the ground, there apparently is no JSA again (or at least no title). And the Legion is intact. And Hawkman is totally different yet again.
#481
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Good catch. Here's the Bronze Era bio of Hawkman from Comicvine. I've spoiler'd the pre-Zero Hour stuff for length, but anyone who wants to see what Zero Hour tried to resolve, here it is:
Spoiler:
#482
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
The post-Crisis Hawkman/hawkworld mess is actually a decent argument against this "reboot." They completely changed the character, even moreso than the depowered Man of Steel or the Perez Wonder Woman, giving him over to a decent writer/artist to boot and letting him run free with the basic tenets of the character (Thanagar, etc.) but "modernizing" it.
Of course, DC's constant tinkering with continuity caused them to completely mess up the character when they decided to bring back the JSA and the golden age and silver age Hawkman. Over time nostalgia and perhaps a desire to cater to old-time fans made them slowly but surely revert or retcon things to the pre-Crisis era. Long before Johns started tinkering to get pre-Crisis Hal, Barry, and the Legion back we had:
1. The Legion of Superheroes getting rebooted twice, after Crisis eliminated Superboy from continuity
2. Donna Troy's origin becoming even more convoluted due to Wonder Woman's origin changing
3. Byrne's retcon of Hippolyta becoming the Golden Age Wonder Woman (Black Canary taking WW's place in the founding of the JL)
4. Power Girl's origin being massacred due to Byrne's edict that there be only one Kryptonian
5. Byrne's ultra-scientific, heartless Krypton being replaced by something closer to the Silver Age Krypton
6. Byrne's Kryptonian edict being thrown out the window to bring back Krypto, a not-quite-SA-Supergirl, and heck, New Krypton
The final nail in the coffin for Crisis was probably Infinite Crisis, which turned the final survivors of the alternate universes, Kal-L, Superboy Prime, and Alexander Luthor, who had been given paradise, into villains, and reintroduced the multiverse, the very thing that Crisis had been set to eliminate.
Unlike Marvel, the DC characters seem to be too iconic to fundamentally change over the long haul. I'll be interested to see how many new readers this brings in, and if those are really new readers or comic fans that just haven't been picking up DC. I guess we'll find around month 4 or so how things all fall out.
Of course, DC's constant tinkering with continuity caused them to completely mess up the character when they decided to bring back the JSA and the golden age and silver age Hawkman. Over time nostalgia and perhaps a desire to cater to old-time fans made them slowly but surely revert or retcon things to the pre-Crisis era. Long before Johns started tinkering to get pre-Crisis Hal, Barry, and the Legion back we had:
1. The Legion of Superheroes getting rebooted twice, after Crisis eliminated Superboy from continuity
2. Donna Troy's origin becoming even more convoluted due to Wonder Woman's origin changing
3. Byrne's retcon of Hippolyta becoming the Golden Age Wonder Woman (Black Canary taking WW's place in the founding of the JL)
4. Power Girl's origin being massacred due to Byrne's edict that there be only one Kryptonian
5. Byrne's ultra-scientific, heartless Krypton being replaced by something closer to the Silver Age Krypton
6. Byrne's Kryptonian edict being thrown out the window to bring back Krypto, a not-quite-SA-Supergirl, and heck, New Krypton
The final nail in the coffin for Crisis was probably Infinite Crisis, which turned the final survivors of the alternate universes, Kal-L, Superboy Prime, and Alexander Luthor, who had been given paradise, into villains, and reintroduced the multiverse, the very thing that Crisis had been set to eliminate.
Unlike Marvel, the DC characters seem to be too iconic to fundamentally change over the long haul. I'll be interested to see how many new readers this brings in, and if those are really new readers or comic fans that just haven't been picking up DC. I guess we'll find around month 4 or so how things all fall out.
#483
DVD Talk Hero
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Just thinking about Hawkman's convoluted history gives me a headache. The problem is that characters with established brands but few sales, like Hawkman, are given opportunity after opportunity to carry a series. That usually means giving some writer free rein to do whatever they want to perk up sales on the character, before the whole thing crashes and burns. The cycle then starts again using a new creative direction, but with more baggage added to the character from the prior revision. Some characters just don't work that well, but editorial keeps trying. What is the core of Hawkman's character? No one really knows because it doesn't exist...
#484
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide

I say this as someone who is probably not as much of a paying customer as DC would like, but seeing comics on a digital device would be preferable.
Comic books (not TPBs) are too 1994 for me.
#485
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
The final nail in the coffin for Crisis was probably Infinite Crisis, which turned the final survivors of the alternate universes, Kal-L, Superboy Prime, and Alexander Luthor, who had been given paradise, into villains, and reintroduced the multiverse, the very thing that Crisis had been set to eliminate.
#486
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Talked to the owner of my local shop, and for the most part he was excited about the relaunch. He was skeptical about the reimbursement though. He said DC makes you buy 69 copies of a title, then they have to sit on the shelf for at least 30 days, then you have to pay shipping to return them and a 20 cent each restocking fee.
He also mentioned that DC had to do something, since for example Heroes for Hire is selling more than Superman
He also mentioned that DC had to do something, since for example Heroes for Hire is selling more than Superman
#487
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
OK, so lots of info came out at Comic Con... We've had more than a month to decide... Thought about starting another thread for this, but I'll keep the discussion in this one...
Are you in or are you out? How many DC books were you buying before the announcement and how many are you going to at least try in month 1?
Buying Now: 0
Gonna Try: 23
Are you in or are you out? How many DC books were you buying before the announcement and how many are you going to at least try in month 1?
Buying Now: 0
Gonna Try: 23
#488
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Buying before the announcement:
Adventure Comics
Batgirl
Batman and Robin
Birds of Prey
Flash (which was canceled, but I was buying Flashpoint)
Justice League of America
Justice League Generation Lost (which had ended, but I put it here because I liked the title enough to stick with it biweekly but will not pick up the new JLI)
Justice Society of America
Legion of Superheroes
Superboy
Supergirl
Teen Titans
would regularly pick up in trades:
Big event titles (was collecting Brightest Day)
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
REBELS (was canceled right before anyway)
Superman titles (was working my way through New Krypton)
I just put in my order for the month where all the #1s come out. I ordered:
Action Comics #1 (only because I got tempted by the 75% off, 99c promo mailordercomics had on this, wouldn't buy it otherwise)
Legion Lost #1
Legion of Superheroes #1
There are some, like Batgirl, that I'm interested in, but like I said before, this created a perfect jumping off point for me. I was kind of roped into buying some of the DC titles through thick and thin, even though a bunch of them, like JLA and JSA, had declined in quality for a while. I love trades, but didn't quite know when to stop a monthly and jump on trades. Now for the stuff I'm even remotely interested in, I can wait to see what fan reaction is like and what direction they take these characters, and if it's positive I'll either jump on the trades when they come out or wait until the inevitable 99 cent digital sale. It makes no sense that I was regularly buying Robinson's JLA, which I hated, and not Johns and Lee's JLA, which has all the big guns, but that's how it is. I'll support the Legion because, hey, I love the Legion, and that's the one corner of the universe that seems to have remained in the old DCU.
edited to add:
Buying Now:10 (only including ongoing series collected monthly)
Gonna Try: 3 (but will probably only stick with 2)
My order, consisting of the three titles above, an issue of Alpha Flight, and a trade of Loeb/Cho's Ultimates came out to under 20 bucks. I briefly contemplated not ordering anything, since the discount barely made up for shipping, until I went back through and ordered the first two volumes of Alpha Flight Classics. Seems like I'm almost out, if Legion tanks I'll just be an Amazon trade guy.
Adventure Comics
Batgirl
Batman and Robin
Birds of Prey
Flash (which was canceled, but I was buying Flashpoint)
Justice League of America
Justice League Generation Lost (which had ended, but I put it here because I liked the title enough to stick with it biweekly but will not pick up the new JLI)
Justice Society of America
Legion of Superheroes
Superboy
Supergirl
Teen Titans
would regularly pick up in trades:
Big event titles (was collecting Brightest Day)
Green Lantern
Green Lantern Corps
REBELS (was canceled right before anyway)
Superman titles (was working my way through New Krypton)
I just put in my order for the month where all the #1s come out. I ordered:
Action Comics #1 (only because I got tempted by the 75% off, 99c promo mailordercomics had on this, wouldn't buy it otherwise)
Legion Lost #1
Legion of Superheroes #1
There are some, like Batgirl, that I'm interested in, but like I said before, this created a perfect jumping off point for me. I was kind of roped into buying some of the DC titles through thick and thin, even though a bunch of them, like JLA and JSA, had declined in quality for a while. I love trades, but didn't quite know when to stop a monthly and jump on trades. Now for the stuff I'm even remotely interested in, I can wait to see what fan reaction is like and what direction they take these characters, and if it's positive I'll either jump on the trades when they come out or wait until the inevitable 99 cent digital sale. It makes no sense that I was regularly buying Robinson's JLA, which I hated, and not Johns and Lee's JLA, which has all the big guns, but that's how it is. I'll support the Legion because, hey, I love the Legion, and that's the one corner of the universe that seems to have remained in the old DCU.
edited to add:
Buying Now:10 (only including ongoing series collected monthly)
Gonna Try: 3 (but will probably only stick with 2)
My order, consisting of the three titles above, an issue of Alpha Flight, and a trade of Loeb/Cho's Ultimates came out to under 20 bucks. I briefly contemplated not ordering anything, since the discount barely made up for shipping, until I went back through and ordered the first two volumes of Alpha Flight Classics. Seems like I'm almost out, if Legion tanks I'll just be an Amazon trade guy.
Last edited by fujishig; 07-28-11 at 10:26 AM.
#489
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I'm "in" in the sense that I hope these succeed and I at least plan on following them vicariously like I used to do when I was an active reader and couldn't afford to keep up with everything that caught my attention. I don't have any firm commitments for purchasing anything as of now, but here's what interests me most and that I am likely to buy:
Action Comics - Hate the costume, like the premise
All-Star Western - Set in the past, outside the rest of the books, making it less likely to become convoluted with crossovers
Batgirl - Just love Batgirl in general; written by Gail Simone is encouraging
DC Universe Presents - I dig anthologies
Justice League International - Written by Dan Jurgens
Superman - Stories and art breakdowns by George Perez
Maybes
Catwoman - As long as it isn't a frequent participant in multi-part Bat-stories, I might enjoy a Catwoman solo book again
Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - Not sure about the premise, but I dig Frankenstein stories
Green Lantern: New Guardians - Kyle's my GL, but the premise sounds recycled
Suicide Squad - Harley Quinn is a member
DC had my interest with Justice League until I saw six whole pages of nothing. I'm not about to plunk down $3.99 an issue for ten months for seven minutes of actual reading. I'd be interested in the Green Lantern books (less so Red Lanterns) except the three that catch my eye amount to $12 a month just between them. I'd rather try to explore All-Star Western, Frankenstein and Suicide Squad--titles outside my wheelhouse.
And, of course, there's Batman. He's my go-to superhero so I'm naturally tempted to explore the various Bat-books but there are just so many of them that it seems like a choice: Batman or everyone else. Batgirl and Catwoman seem sufficient up front, and I have no intention of being sucked into trying to keep up with all 11 Batman-related series (not counting the various team books where a Bat-character is a member).
Action Comics - Hate the costume, like the premise
All-Star Western - Set in the past, outside the rest of the books, making it less likely to become convoluted with crossovers
Batgirl - Just love Batgirl in general; written by Gail Simone is encouraging
DC Universe Presents - I dig anthologies
Justice League International - Written by Dan Jurgens
Superman - Stories and art breakdowns by George Perez
Maybes
Catwoman - As long as it isn't a frequent participant in multi-part Bat-stories, I might enjoy a Catwoman solo book again
Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E. - Not sure about the premise, but I dig Frankenstein stories
Green Lantern: New Guardians - Kyle's my GL, but the premise sounds recycled
Suicide Squad - Harley Quinn is a member
DC had my interest with Justice League until I saw six whole pages of nothing. I'm not about to plunk down $3.99 an issue for ten months for seven minutes of actual reading. I'd be interested in the Green Lantern books (less so Red Lanterns) except the three that catch my eye amount to $12 a month just between them. I'd rather try to explore All-Star Western, Frankenstein and Suicide Squad--titles outside my wheelhouse.
And, of course, there's Batman. He's my go-to superhero so I'm naturally tempted to explore the various Bat-books but there are just so many of them that it seems like a choice: Batman or everyone else. Batgirl and Catwoman seem sufficient up front, and I have no intention of being sucked into trying to keep up with all 11 Batman-related series (not counting the various team books where a Bat-character is a member).
#490
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Buying Now: 4 (Secret Six, Birds of Prey, and Legion as floppies, tradewaiting on the Legion stories in Adventure).
Gonna Try: 2 (Legion, Mr. Terrific)
Love Simone's work, but I can't support the changes to Oracle. I can't be one of those fans who bitch about a direction a character is going (or how much they hate the creative team) and yet still keep buying the book.
Gonna Try: 2 (Legion, Mr. Terrific)
Love Simone's work, but I can't support the changes to Oracle. I can't be one of those fans who bitch about a direction a character is going (or how much they hate the creative team) and yet still keep buying the book.
#491
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I can respect that. I resisted the changes to Superman at first, but the more I've learned, the more I've become amenable to the changes. I think there's a lot of potential to Perez's Superman to feature some social commentary. But then, I haven't been a regular reader for more than a decade so it's not like I feel terribly entitled to indignation.
#492
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I can respect that. I resisted the changes to Superman at first, but the more I've learned, the more I've become amenable to the changes. I think there's a lot of potential to Perez's Superman to feature some social commentary. But then, I haven't been a regular reader for more than a decade so it's not like I feel terribly entitled to indignation.
#493
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
I can't imagine that this role won't be filled by someone at some point. My best guess? Watchtower manned by Chloe Sullivan.
#494
DVD Talk Legend
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Im buying the same titles I was before. Not really trying anything new
Once I looked at the title again, i decided not to go all in on the DCBS deal. If I hear a title is good, I will check it out later
Once I looked at the title again, i decided not to go all in on the DCBS deal. If I hear a title is good, I will check it out later
#495
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Good for you. Seriously, I applaud people who stick to their guns. As for Oracle... I see the point of DC when they say that it became to "easy" to write stories with Oracle as the primary, all-knowing information source.
I can't imagine that this role won't be filled by someone at some point. My best guess? Watchtower manned by Chloe Sullivan.
I can't imagine that this role won't be filled by someone at some point. My best guess? Watchtower manned by Chloe Sullivan.
#496
DVD Talk Godfather
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Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Buying now: 0
Gonna try: 0
I'll probably try some trades, though.
Gonna try: 0
I'll probably try some trades, though.
#497
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
As I continued making my way through all the solicitations I saw that Dan Jurgens and George Perez are doing the art for Green Arrow. I'm unfamiliar with the writer (J.T. Krul), but Jurgens/Perez is sufficient to pique my interest. It's going on my "Take a look at it" list.
#498
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide
Oracle had already stopped filling that role. In some convoluted story (sorry Gail Simone!), she faked her own death in order to focus on being Oracle only for Batman, Inc. (or something, I wasn't really clear). There was a scene where something like 4 heroes were asking for her help and she just ignored them, in order to cut the cord, even though they were all in danger. But then the next issue she continued to be Oracle for the Birds of Prey, Batgirl, etc.
#500
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: DC UNIVERSE Reboots in September, Same Day Digital Linewide



