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Question or two about Batman

Old 01-06-11, 03:53 PM
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Question or two about Batman

I've read various places that Bruce Wayne is taking Batman "corporate" ie, establishing Batman/men in various cities around the world. True? If so, this seems a mindbogglingly stupid idea and great way to ruin a character whose whole existence is based around his being a myth. Is this just Morrison trying to "Vertigo" up Batman and the entire Batman mythos?
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Old 01-06-11, 04:21 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

I don't think Batman has been a myth in the DC universe for a long time. He's a member of the Justice League so the whole world know about him.

I'm sure once the Batman Inc story is over, they'll retcon it somehow to go back to normal.
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Old 01-06-11, 04:23 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

His whole existence is not based around his being a myth... though that was one of the concepts that was introduced at one time by a writer, much like this concept was introduced. I always thought that was a little ridiculous, considering he had a brightly dressed kid sidekick and fought colorful villains and was part of the Justice League (and the UN sanctioned Justice League International)

I'm not a huge fan of this concept either, but I wouldn't get all worked up about him not being a myth anymore.
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Old 01-26-11, 05:14 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

It was a pretty well established fact in while I was reading comics in the 80s and 90s that Batman was indeed an urban legend - like the boogy man. The concept behind batman has always been that the criminal element is a superstitious and cowardly lot. Can't imagine a "dude" in a cape being as scary as a shadow that may or may not exsist.

Having abandoned floopys a few years ago, I've recently purchased a few TPB to fill that niche. I was pretty surprised at the fact that Richard Grayson had "reinvented" Batman as a smiling caped crusader who made himself even more visible to the world.
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Old 01-26-11, 05:22 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

My point was that the urban legend thing was a new concept introduced in the 80s/90s, just like this Batman Incorporated is a new concept introduced now. People nitpicked the first idea (the primary reason being that he was in the Justice League! and he had a brightly-garbed kid sidekick/decoy who started the Teen Titans.), just as they do this idea, and no man's land, and Azbats, and yellow-bat Batman, etc. but in a year or so some other writer will come along and come up with something else to upset "fans."

Superman just went through a year or two's worth of stories about "New Krypton" that was promptly thrown in the garbage once JMS came on board.

Look at the bright side, at least you're not a Wonder Woman fan.
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Old 01-26-11, 05:22 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

My point was that the urban legend thing was a new concept introduced in the 80s/90s, just like this Batman Incorporated is a new concept introduced now. People nitpicked the first idea (the primary reason being that he was in the Justice League! and he had a brightly-garbed kid sidekick/decoy who started the Teen Titans.), just as they do this idea, and no man's land, and Azbats, and yellow-bat Batman, etc. but in a year or so some other writer will come along and come up with something else to upset "fans."

Superman just went through a year or two's worth of stories about "New Krypton" that was promptly thrown in the garbage once JMS came on board.

Look at the bright side, at least you're not a Wonder Woman fan.
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Old 01-27-11, 10:47 AM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
My point was that the urban legend thing was a new concept introduced in the 80s/90s, just like this Batman Incorporated is a new concept introduced now. People nitpicked the first idea (the primary reason being that he was in the Justice League! and he had a brightly-garbed kid sidekick/decoy who started the Teen Titans.), just as they do this idea, and no man's land, and Azbats, and yellow-bat Batman, etc. but in a year or so some other writer will come along and come up with something else to upset "fans."

Superman just went through a year or two's worth of stories about "New Krypton" that was promptly thrown in the garbage once JMS came on board.

Look at the bright side, at least you're not a Wonder Woman fan.
And you're probably right. As I said, I began reading comics in the 80s so I have very little point of reference before then. The thing I can argue is that this "phase" of his history lasted more than just a few writers. It was this way for at least 10 years and probably more.
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Old 02-01-11, 08:23 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

I started reading Batman in the late 80s and never remembered him being considered as an urban legend until the 90s when ZERO HOUR happened.

I really doesn't make much sense either. The police using the Bat-Signal, the existance of even more colorful and amazing superheroes in every other city, the Justice League of AMERICA having a satellite near the moon, Gotham itself having criminals like Clayface, The Joker, Killer Croc...but a man fighting crime in a costume and cape is too fantastic for Gotham citizens to believe.

BATMAN INC doesn't interest me, but it has to be better than Knightfall.
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Old 02-01-11, 10:39 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

The "Batman-as-an-urban-legend" thing is mostly limited to the movies; as stated above it would be kind of difficult to the Batman of the DCU to try to present himself as an urban legend considering his high profile in that universe.

The only time in recent memory that I can think where they might have played such an angle would have been in the early issues of the "Legends of the Dark Knight" series that launched in 1989 that covered Batman's early days in the "Year One" milieu.
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Old 02-01-11, 11:09 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Not gonna dig through 30 long boxes of comics to settle a nerd pissing contest, but I know for a fact that from about 1988 until maybe the early part of this century, Batman was considered an urban legend in the DC universe. In fact I even recall a very early issue of JLA (from early 2000s) where a newscaster discusses the lineup of the JLA and says something "mysterious vigilante from Gotham" being part of the ranks.

Understand that I collected every single Batman comic book from 1988 to 2008. Every one.
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Old 02-01-11, 11:43 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

I don't know how well he was considered an urban legend before the early 90s. In 1989's YEAR 3 storyline, Batman and Robin are shown on tv fighting criminals. In fact, that's part of the Tim Drake Robin origin, is that he sees Batman and Robin on television and is able to deduce their identities from the footage.

I haven't read all the Batman comics but I was reading from 89 and up here and there, and I never remember the urban legend thing. There's a storyline in the 90s called "Dark Genesis" where the public thinks that Batman is responsible for a series of killings and want him arrested.
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Old 02-02-11, 08:05 AM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by madcougar View Post
Not gonna dig through 30 long boxes of comics to settle a nerd pissing contest, but I know for a fact that from about 1988 until maybe the early part of this century, Batman was considered an urban legend in the DC universe. In fact I even recall a very early issue of JLA (from early 2000s) where a newscaster discusses the lineup of the JLA and says something "mysterious vigilante from Gotham" being part of the ranks.

Understand that I collected every single Batman comic book from 1988 to 2008. Every one.
You know for a fact?

Sorry dude, but you remember incorrectly. The whole "Batman is an urban legend" thing was from Zero Hour in 1994.

The DC wiki confirms it.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Zero_Hour

I own practically every Post-Crisis Batman title as well, and there is no way in heck that Batman was considered an urban legend in the 80s or even early 90s. How many hundreds, possibly thousands, of people saw Bane through Batman's broken body off the rooftop?
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Old 02-02-11, 10:07 AM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
You know for a fact?

Sorry dude, but you remember incorrectly. The whole "Batman is an urban legend" thing was from Zero Hour in 1994.

The DC wiki confirms it.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Zero_Hour

I own practically every Post-Crisis Batman title as well, and there is no way in heck that Batman was considered an urban legend in the 80s or even early 90s. How many hundreds, possibly thousands, of people saw Bane through Batman's broken body off the rooftop?
DC does so many Crisis and Zero Hour-type continuity reboots that it's impossible and pointless to try to make any sense of the DCU. Not to mention that DC has been putting out about fifty Batman comic books a month that cover points all over his crime-fighting career.

How many first meetings has Batman had with the Joker?

It's like Marvel portraying Wolverine as a loner who's constantly showing up in everyone else's books and is on about eight different superhero teams at the same time.
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Old 02-02-11, 11:51 AM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
You know for a fact?

Sorry dude, but you remember incorrectly. The whole "Batman is an urban legend" thing was from Zero Hour in 1994.

Whatever nerdlinger! Like I said, not digging through thousands of books to make my point. I'm not saying that NO ONE has EVER seen Batman, but that he's like Big Foot - people CLAIM to have seen him but who knows.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go make love to a beautiful woman. Something you probably don't know anything about! So there!
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Old 02-02-11, 02:26 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by madcougar View Post
Like I said, not digging through thousands of books to make my point. I'm not saying that NO ONE has EVER seen Batman, but that he's like Big Foot - people CLAIM to have seen him but who knows.
The urban legend thing was an editorial edict started by Denny O'Neil, who was in charge of the bat books at the time, because he wanted to take advantage of the opportunity alotted by DC's big 1994 event, ZERO HOUR to change things.

If he was supposed to be an urban legend, the Batman editors wouldn't have had storylines in the late 80s and early 90s where Batman is shown on television.

Or where the citizens meet him and are not shocked by the fact that he's real. There's all kinds of stories where he pops up and the people say "oh thank goodness batman your here!"
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Old 02-02-11, 02:54 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

It's my understanding that the idea of Bats going global is meant to accomplish two things. Firstly, it puts Batman on a much larger scale than Gotham City. I personally favor the Batman stories in which he's overwhelmed in his home city but let's face it: once you accept him as part of the Justice League and see him operate on other planets, it seems rather small potatoes for a hero of his talents and caliber to remain contained in that one city. The other thing is, it's an indication of the Bat-police shown in Kingdom Come. The idea seems to be showing how the Batman we know became the Batman of that series, and this was the first step. I'd be lying if I said it made me personally want to read, but I can appreciate the intent.

Also, I'd like to comment on the "Urban Legend" side topic. I don't remember anyone articulating it as official storytelling policy at the time, but I had a very strong sense reading early issues of Legends of the Dark Knight that the people of Gotham were largely oblivious to Batman. In point of fact, I distinctly recall a letters column in one issue articulating that very point though I can't say now which issue of which title or when it was published. I am, however, entirely confident it was prior to "Zero Hour" because I quit reading most comic books after that mini-series. (It was intended as a jumping-on point, and I used it to jump off.)
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Old 02-02-11, 03:04 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

I think the urban legend has more to do with him having little public presence. In JLA they often had him in the background and listed as being an "unofficial" member. Many of the thugs are often talking about his supernatural powers like being inhuman, unable to stop with bullets or punches, flight, leaping or living inside of shadows... I recall eye-witnesses getting Manbat confused with Batman because a lot of people think Batman is a giant half-bat creature already.

I don't think it's about "if he exists" but it is more like "what is he?" Most of the core JLA don't have secret identities (Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter) so him being reclusive adds mystery.

Also, each writer will have his own take on Batman. Previous stories may have little or no influence on what the current writer wants to do. Marvel is generally far more strict on continuity then DC is in my opinion.
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Old 02-02-11, 03:13 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

How to be the coolest kid on the internet in three easy steps:

1. Find an internet message board where Batman is being discussed and weigh in on the conversation.
2. When someone corrects your statement, get angry and point to your collection of 20 years of Batman comics as proof that you're right.
3. When people still insist that you're wrong, call them all a bunch of nerds and brag about how, unlike them, you're going to have sex with a real live woman!

If you follow these steps, everyone on the internet will be totally impressed with you, not to mention jealous over the fact that they are all nerds and you get to have real sex with a real woman who is totally not made up.
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Old 02-02-11, 03:27 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by JasonF View Post
How to be the coolest kid on the internet in three easy steps:

1. Find an internet message board where Batman is being discussed and weigh in on the conversation.
2. When someone corrects your statement, get angry and point to your collection of 20 years of Batman comics as proof that you're right.
3. When people still insist that you're wrong, call them all a bunch of nerds and brag about how, unlike them, you're going to have sex with a real live woman!

If you follow these steps, everyone on the internet will be totally impressed with you, not to mention jealous over the fact that they are all nerds and you get to have real sex with a real woman who is totally not made up.
Dude... calm down! I was joking! Anyone with as many comic books as me knows that calling another comic book collector a "nerd" is ridiculous. Hell, "nerdlinger" is a word that Homer Simpson says! I thougth surely adding that last jab about having sex with a woman would be enough to let everyone in on the joke.

You remember things your way, I remember them my way. No big deal. The only reason I rememember that JLA book was because it was so poorly written. I remember thinking "They sure are going out of their way to explain that Batman is an urban legend."

At the end of the day We've both obviously spent thousands of dollars on nonsense, I'm sure we've both had sex with women, and we both get on DVDTalk from work. Cool?

But I'm right...
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Old 02-02-11, 03:30 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by brayzie View Post
Or where the citizens meet him and are not shocked by the fact that he's real. There's all kinds of stories where he pops up and the people say "oh thank goodness batman your here!"
You kind of make my point here. If there was all this video of the guy everywhere, why would people be shocked to see him and find out his real?

Perhaps DC was inconsistent with the concept of him being an urban legend.
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Old 02-02-11, 03:53 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by madcougar View Post
You kind of make my point here. If there was all this video of the guy everywhere, why would people be shocked to see him and find out his real?

Perhaps DC was inconsistent with the concept of him being an urban legend.
I think you read his quote wrong as it clearly states that people are NOT surprised to find out he is real and recognize him by sight and name him correctly.

Though yes... inconsistent is probably right.

There is a really nice article on Daredevil I just read that explores his early character starting point and discuses the effect on how multiple writers can evolves a character. This thread made me think of it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30499
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Old 02-02-11, 04:10 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
I think you read his quote wrong as it clearly states that people are NOT surprised to find out he is real and recognize him by sight and name him correctly.

Though yes... inconsistent is probably right.

There is a really nice article on Daredevil I just read that explores his early character starting point and discuses the effect on how multiple writers can evolves a character. This thread made me think of it.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=30499
I've only read part of the article so far, but thanks for the link! I always thought it was odd just how many times Daredevil's identity is compromised in the worst possible ways, over and over and over again, and how tragic his life was overall.
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Old 02-02-11, 04:25 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
I've only read part of the article so far, but thanks for the link! I always thought it was odd just how many times Daredevil's identity is compromised in the worst possible ways, over and over and over again, and how tragic his life was overall.
Yeah... I'm sure your job interview to get that writing gig is "In two hundred words, describe how you plan on punching this character in the nuts."
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Old 02-02-11, 05:22 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Yeah... I'm sure your job interview to get that writing gig is "In two hundred words, describe how you plan on punching this character in the nuts."
That explains why Affleck got that role...
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Old 02-02-11, 05:38 PM
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Re: Question or two about Batman

Besides the effects of ZERO HOUR, Legends of the Dark Knight was another Batman title, with the angle being that the stories would take place during Batman's first year of crime fighting, so that's probably why he was portrayed as being a myth to the citizens of Gotham.
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