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Old 12-10-07 | 10:53 AM
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I finally got around to reading the latest chapter in the shit-fest "One More Day" storyline.

Can you really call this a spoiler? I would call it taking a poor unsuspecting soul that has yet to shell out $4 for this piece of toilet paper and saving them from a potentially life-altering mistake. Anyhow....

Spoiler:


Wait... so Peter & MJ's marriage is SO strong, SO powerful, SO amazing that it has become a thorn in the side of FUCKING MEPHISTO????????????? Dear Marvel: Spider-Man is not a sorcery / metaphysical / whatever comic. Beings like Mephisto DO NOT BELONG HERE. Magical beings should be used very sparingly. Spider-Man fights on a street level, he is not The Avengers, taking on planetary menaces, nor is he Dr. Strange, taking on magical foes.



Fuck Joe Q. Fuck him with a wooden dick, then break it off and beat him with the rest of it.
Old 12-10-07 | 11:10 AM
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From: Ga
Originally Posted by Giantrobo
So does anyone else have a LCBS that gets shorted on books? My order was light today and they -claim- "the distributor(Diamond?) shorted them". But I know if I go to my backup shop, the books I'm missing will probably be there in large stacks.

I think they just under order to save money and I understand that. But when a regular customer starts gettting tired of missing books at your store, only to have said customer have to hunt them down at other shops, and thinking of ending the relationship....you need to do something better.
I know that Diamond has shorted us a good bit recently. Last week we didn't get a single copy of House of M Avengers #2. And we only got 3 copies of Black Summer(eventhough we ordered at least 10 or so).

I'm not defending the store(because I don't know how often this happens or how they order), but I can say that stores do get shorted by Diamond.
Old 12-10-07 | 01:44 PM
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Was wondering what happened to Moy... I guess his style fits only a certain kind of book, but you'd think after that consistent work on Legion he'd have found work somewhere.

I think Byrne's stuff started "regressing" in my eyes when he started inking himself. At least, his Wonder Woman stuff was terrible.

Bachalo does draw beautiful... covers. But his sequential art became basically unreadable when he did Steampunk, and his current X-men stuff is hard to follow. I thought he did a great job with his initial Death miniseries too, and I loved his Gen X stuff.

What every happened to Dave Johnson? Used to love his Super Patriot minis. And what happened to Ron Lim, another iron-man when it came to monthlies?

Other artists who I think don't get the credit they probably deserve:
Gene Ha: His stuff has evolved so much from his early Green Lantern days (back when nobody was reading Hal Jordan). Top 10 is(was?) awesome.
Chris Sprouse: his style is just so clean, and fun. I'd love to see him draw the Legion again.

Any idea what these guys (and Adams) are doing now that ABC is over?
Old 12-10-07 | 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fujishig
I think Byrne's stuff started "regressing" in my eyes when he started inking himself. At least, his Wonder Woman stuff was terrible.
Actually, Byrne inked himself for most of his run on FF, which I thought looked great and was him at his best. But yeah, he started regressing around his WW run (or just before), as his art started looking more and more rushed.
Old 12-10-07 | 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fujishig
Was wondering what happened to Moy... I guess his style fits only a certain kind of book, but you'd think after that consistent work on Legion he'd have found work somewhere.
Both Jeff and Phil Moy and Cory Carani are working for Raven. They're all friends of a friend so I see them from time to time (basically at Wizard World Chicago every year) -- all three of them miss comics, but are also really happy doing what they're doing.
Old 12-10-07 | 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by slop101
Actually, Byrne inked himself for most of his run on FF, which I thought looked great and was him at his best. But yeah, he started regressing around his WW run (or just before), as his art started looking more and more rushed.
Ah, didn't realize he inked his own FF stuff, I always thought he was paired with Austin much like X-men. Come to think of it, as awesome as I thought that Claremont/Byrne Uncanny X-men run was, I'm saddened that I can no longer enjoy works from either guy.

Glad that the Moys are at least working... Is Raven the studio that makes the X-men Legends games?

Got my monthly shipment of comics, here's what I read:

Supergirl 23: This seems to be somehow related to the Sinestro Corps stuff, but being behind on GL I'm very very confused as to what's going on here. Almost as confused as I was the last couple of issues where it crossed over with Karate Kid and Countdown. Or before that when it crossed over with Amazons Attack. I didn't read any of those.

Supergirl and the Legion of Super Heroes 36: Well, that wrapped up almost too nicely, left me a little unsatisfied. I don't really see what the point was to have Supergirl join the Legion at all, but hopefully it at least picked up some sales. Can someone let me know when the next issue comes out at the stores? I missed ordering it because of the name change...

Teen Titans 53: Future Titans, Starro, and also some tie in to the Sinestro Wars, it all leaves me very, very confused. I'm also confused by

Teen Titans East Special 1: I'll give them this, that wasn't what I was expecting, and are we now going to have two Titans books? Oh, wait, Winick is the one who wrote that awful Graduation Day mini that transformed Young Justice into the new Titans and killed off Donna Troy (for a couple of minutes). If he's writing the new series, forget it. Also, Churchill likes drawing women.

World War III TPB: Reading this so long after I read the original 52 series kinda seems odd, though I now realize how important the Manhunter was in this... he wasn't mentioned at all in the issue of 52 dealing with WWIII. In a way, I guess it's ironic, because I just read the Supergirl and the Legion issue where she goes back to the present to help fight Black Adam... except I don't remember her doing anything at all to help. When did Supergirl go to Candor? I'm so confused.

They seemed to address the issue of why Black Adam was such a threat even though he was one man, but I still don't buy that all those heroes (including the Marvel family) had such difficulty taking him out.

I don't think I got JLA or JSA this month, so those must be delayed?
Old 12-10-07 | 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fujishig
Glad that the Moys are at least working... Is Raven the studio that makes the X-men Legends games?
Yup -- and Marvel: Ultimate Alliance as well.
Old 12-11-07 | 05:43 AM
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From: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Originally Posted by MovieExchange

Fuck Joe Q. Fuck him with a wooden dick, then break it off and beat him with the rest of it.

That's what I'm saying!
Old 12-11-07 | 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fujishig
Supergirl 23: This seems to be somehow related to the Sinestro Corps stuff, but being behind on GL I'm very very confused as to what's going on here. Almost as confused as I was the last couple of issues where it crossed over with Karate Kid and Countdown. Or before that when it crossed over with Amazons Attack. I didn't read any of those.
This is a title I wish I liked. I'm not inherently a fan of Supergirl, but I think her comic should be a lower top tier book at DC. If done right, she would probably be more interesting than Superman is. But alas, this book suffered from a bunch of creative changes and no real direction, at least when I last tried it. Maybe after Wonder Woman gets on her feet, DC can focus their attention on Kara.

I am glad they moved her away from the sex-pot look she was sporting and to that more inline with a (non-slutty) teenage girl. If his past work is any indication, Sean McKeever will probably write a good Supergirl in Teen Titans. Am I ashamed to own the Spidey Loves Mary Jane HC? No, no I am not.
Old 12-11-07 | 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
That's what I'm saying!
I've never liked the guy. Back when he and Jimmy Palmiotti were the hot writer / inker team, they did an appearance at our local comic convention. Over 3 days, they appeared approximately 2 hours each day to sign autographs. They were just "too important" to sit there the entire day like other professionals like John Romita Jr and Bernie Wrightson.
Old 12-11-07 | 11:04 AM
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I fucking love Bernie Wrightson - both as an artist and a person.
Old 12-11-07 | 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by boredsilly
This is a title I wish I liked. I'm not inherently a fan of Supergirl, but I think her comic should be a lower top tier book at DC. If done right, she would probably be more interesting than Superman is. But alas, this book suffered from a bunch of creative changes and no real direction, at least when I last tried it. Maybe after Wonder Woman gets on her feet, DC can focus their attention on Kara.

I am glad they moved her away from the sex-pot look she was sporting and to that more inline with a (non-slutty) teenage girl. If his past work is any indication, Sean McKeever will probably write a good Supergirl in Teen Titans. Am I ashamed to own the Spidey Loves Mary Jane HC? No, no I am not.

Do you want to know what's odd? I dropped WW because of all the crap going on with that title, knowing full well that Gail Simone would turn it around and thus it would eventually be collected. Supergirl has shown more promise recently than the terrible earlier issues, but despite my complaints every week it's still on my pull list, mainly because I want to see them turn the character around and this will probably never be collected. Of course, if Teen Titans ever cleans it's act up, I'll probably just get my Supergirl fix from there. It's just that I didn't expect there to be sooo many crossovers in this title... I didn't even know it was tied into the Sinestro event until I opened it up.
Old 12-11-07 | 01:45 PM
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Teen Titans went from being unnecessary to being one of DC's best team books in years to being utter trash. Seeing the name "Rob Liefeld" on the cover speaks volumes of the kind of editorial direction at DC.

I agree with the comments about Supergirl but that's always been her flaw. For some reason, DC follows a distinct cycle with Supergirl: great concept, poor execution, and the character is either killed off or falls into obscurity. This has been happening since the Silver Age. It seems like the "Women in Refrigerators" syndrome is true; DC just has it in for Supergirl.
Old 12-11-07 | 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Superboy
Teen Titans went from being unnecessary to being one of DC's best team books in years to being utter trash. Seeing the name "Rob Liefeld" on the cover speaks volumes of the kind of editorial direction at DC.
Outside of the Liefeld two parter, I think "utter trash" is a bit strong, but the book did fall from grace. I think it's such a shame because, as you said, it was one of the best books DC was putting out for a good while. This really was a victim of events, as the OYL and Infinite Crisis business really took the heart away from this book. McKeever is as good a writer as any to bring this book back to quality though.

About Supergirl, it does annoy me when characters aren't used to their potential. We can look at either company and point to any number of characters that we each feel should be bigger or more important than they are, but Kara is an obvious choice. The thing is, I think if it became a mandate at DC to make Kara "important" all we would get is her forced down our throats (ala Ms. Marvel - thought this has worked to some extent). What needs to happen is Kara needs to be "given" to a writer who cares about her and let them craft and define just exactly who she is.

Need an example of how this works? Gail Simone's treatment of Black Canary. That didn't happen overnight, but Simone really brought that character back to prominence in a natural way. Of course this won't work on every character, but it's the most obvious way to give a character long lasting appeal. Johns has done a similar job with Mr Terrific and Power Girl.

I would love if someone would bring Nightwing to the next level.
Old 12-11-07 | 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by boredsilly
Outside of the Liefeld two parter, I think "utter trash" is a bit strong, but the book did fall from grace. I think it's such a shame because, as you said, it was one of the best books DC was putting out for a good while. This really was a victim of events, as the OYL and Infinite Crisis business really took the heart away from this book. McKeever is as good a writer as any to bring this book back to quality though.
Exactly, OYL and Infinite Crisis destroyed the book. The art got incredibly sloppy and amateur, and the scripts just seemed obligatory. It reminded me of the glut of the early 90's where nothing happened and no book really mattered.

About Supergirl, it does annoy me when characters aren't used to their potential. We can look at either company and point to any number of characters that we each feel should be bigger or more important than they are, but Kara is an obvious choice. The thing is, I think if it became a mandate at DC to make Kara "important" all we would get is her forced down our throats (ala Ms. Marvel - thought this has worked to some extent). What needs to happen is Kara needs to be "given" to a writer who cares about her and let them craft and define just exactly who she is.
Oh, I definitely agree, but even then, much of what happens is simply due to fan response and editorial direction. The post-crisis Supergirl was a great character for a long time until audiences really began to feel that she was nothing more than an imposter for Kara Zor-El, which was true. But now that Superman's world is slowly being reformatted to the PC incarnation, I don't know why audiences STILL hate Supergirl. I think there's something inherent in the character, as if it cheapens Superman by weakening the masculine ego complex of comic readers to see the mightiest alpha male in comic dom hampered by femininity. I see the same pattern with Batgirl as well.

Need an example of how this works? Gail Simone's treatment of Black Canary. That didn't happen overnight, but Simone really brought that character back to prominence in a natural way. Of course this won't work on every character, but it's the most obvious way to give a character long lasting appeal. Johns has done a similar job with Mr Terrific and Power Girl.

I would love if someone would bring Nightwing to the next level.
Chuck Dixon's original run on Nitewing was fantastic, one of the best DC books in the 90s. In fact, one of the few DC books that was even worth reading AT ALL. Everything else sucked. I'm serious, it was that bad. When Grayson took over the series became somewhat tired with little growth, and most of the unconventional humor and surrealism seen during Dixon's run totally disappeared. Most situations were totally cut and dry, static affairs that were easily resolved.
Old 12-11-07 | 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by slop101
I fucking love Bernie Wrightson - both as an artist and a person.
Bernie's awesome. One year I volunteered at the convention, and they put me at a curtain separating their show from another show at the Expo Center in order to make sure that people didn't cross over from the other show w/out paying. Turns out that curtain was the one behind Bernie Wrightson, so I got to sit and watch him do sketches for an hour or so.
Old 12-11-07 | 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Superboy
I see the same pattern with Batgirl as well.
The problem with Batgirl is that Cassandra Cain is not Barbara Gordon. People love Barbara (even though a lot of us weren't even reading comics with BG was active), but look at Cassandra as an impostor. That is mainly because Cassandra is so radically different in tone and appearance than Barbara was. Look at Tim Drake. He is a lot of people's Robin (including my own). In some ways he's surpassed Dick Grayson in the role. But would any of that have happened if Tim didn't pretty much come off as different than Dick in name only in those early days? So he was easy to except, and has grown into his own character over the years. Cassandra Cain wasn't a replacement for Barbara, she was a totally new character, having very little in common with the originator of the Batgirl role. I have no doubt that if a redhead that was similar enough to Barbara (in feel and costume) took up the mantle in No Man's Land, that she would be 5 times as popular as Cassandra Cain is now.

And while we're talking about the sausage fest that is Gotham, I think it's a shame that Spoiler's Robin was squandered too. It would have been really cool if they let that ride for awhile and when Tim finally came back to take over the Robin role again (because I don't think he's ready to go make his own Nightwing-esque character), she could have been christened the new Batgirl (if they were going to turn Cassandra a villain). But instead they treated Spoiler like an outsider as many a rabid fangirl will tell you.

At least Huntress has carved out a nice niche for herself in the DCU and isn't so reliant on being a part of the bat-family anymore to be sustainable.

Chuck Dixon's original run on Nitewing was fantastic, one of the best DC books in the 90s.
I should probably give Dixon some credit for Black Canary too since he did write Birds of Prey for 70-some issues. Issues that people seem to love. I haven't read them myself, so I can't comment one way or another. I still stand by the fact that Simone was the one to really take Canary to triple A status again though.
Old 12-11-07 | 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by boredsilly
The problem with Batgirl is that Cassandra Cain is not Barbara Gordon. People love Barbara (even though a lot of us weren't even reading comics with BG was active), but look at Cassandra as an impostor. That is mainly because Cassandra is so radically different in tone and appearance than Barbara was. Look at Tim Drake. He is a lot of people's Robin (including my own). In some ways he's surpassed Dick Grayson in the role. But would any of that have happened if Tim didn't pretty much come off as different than Dick in name only in those early days? So he was easy to except, and has grown into his own character over the years. Cassandra Cain wasn't a replacement for Barbara, she was a totally new character, having very little in common with the originator of the Batgirl role. I have no doubt that if a redhead that was similar enough to Barbara (in feel and costume) took up the mantle in No Man's Land, that she would be 5 times as popular as Cassandra Cain is now.

And while we're talking about the sausage fest that is Gotham, I think it's a shame that Spoiler's Robin was squandered too. It would have been really cool if they let that ride for awhile and when Tim finally came back to take over the Robin role again (because I don't think he's ready to go make his own Nightwing-esque character), she could have been christened the new Batgirl (if they were going to turn Cassandra a villain). But instead they treated Spoiler like an outsider as many a rabid fangirl will tell you.

At least Huntress has carved out a nice niche for herself in the DCU and isn't so reliant on being a part of the bat-family anymore to be sustainable.
I'm surprised Huntress is still alive. I mean, DC realllllly has it in for its female superheroes. The original Batgirl was crippled and humiliated to an extent that no other male superhero had been. Catwoman's sister was tortured by Black Mask. The female Robin was also tortured by the Black Mask and got the crap kicked out of her regularly. And isn't it soooo convenient that the current Batgirl can't talk. She's also been brainwashed and now works for Deathstroke. Typical of DC. More women in refrigerators. I think it's only a matter of time before Batwoman gets her ass thoroughly kicked.

What it really boils down to is that DC does not have a huge audience of female readership to enjoy a strong female character. I've written a paper on it in college about how there are an abundance of sexist themes in comics.

I should probably give Dixon some credit for Black Canary too since he did write Birds of Prey for 70-some issues. Issues that people seem to love. I haven't read them myself, so I can't comment one way or another. I still stand by the fact that Simone was the one to really take Canary to triple A status again though.
Dixon was alright on Birds of Prey, but Nightwing was really his strong suit. It's sad that after a healthy, meaty, enjoyable run with a solid artist the whole way - Scott Mcdaniel - the book has quickly degenerated into an unreadable mess.

Simone is great on BoP although I found her first year gimmicky and amateurish. It reminded me too much of early 90s girl comics where all they did was stand in sexy poses and never do anything interesting. She did hit her stride though and it was in my holy trinity of Batman books no one read - BoP along with Gotham Central and Catwoman - that actually had real substance and character. Alas, attrition is a horrific thing in the comic industry. Hopefully BoP maintains afloat.
Old 12-11-07 | 11:43 PM
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sorry boredsilly, I just realized we're having two totally different conversations

I agree that the current Batgirl's appeal is partially due to how different her character is from Barbara. I guess comic properties eventually reach a point where nostalgia is really the driving force behind editorial decisions and creativity.

I also appreciate how Huntress is so different form the rest of the Bat-family. Her headlining in the JLU cartoon was really cool too.
Old 12-12-07 | 01:13 AM
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Heh. I guess we were. Like a geek, when it comes to Gotham I always talk about it as if it were a real entity. Like a big giant geek. What can you do, though? What is this editorial you speak of? Bats, Gordon, and the rest are REAL!

Originally Posted by Superboy
I'm surprised Huntress is still alive. I mean, DC realllllly has it in for its female superheroes.
Huntress as a character was one working for redemption and acceptance since she came on the scene, so there wouldn't be much point putting her in a bad situation since her character arc is one of reform. Similar to Montoya after her fall (or Rucka got a hold of her).

Yeah, its a common practice to use the female characters as motivation for their male counterparts and companions. And in a way I'm ok with the device to a point (it's done in other media all the time), but what I think is really damning is the fall-out, or lack thereof. Spoiler got totally worked over by Black Mask, but after her "death" she was barely referenced. Poor thing didn't even get a tribute capsule in the Batcave. That was kind of cruddy. I know these are characters and aren't real (for real I really do! damnit!) but Spoiler was forgotten quicker than Peter Parker's baby, and I think that was shit. And one problem with the "damsel in distress" story in superhero comics is these women aren't defenseless, which is where a lot of the more extreme cases of misuse of femal characters falls apart.

And I can see what you mean about Simone's early issues in the run (even though I really enjoyed those too. I think why they might have seemed a bit more like bad girls 90's comics than they actually were was Benes' art. There were more ass shots in that book than in a rap video.

Did you find it weird though that the woman behind "women in refrigerators" wrote a story were Black Canary was bound, tied, and tortured by two men and a story where Huntress slept with a loser dweeb because of her low self esteem? Those two things really struck me as odd, and I wonder if it was Gail commenting on the treatment of women in DC or falling into similar traps as her male peers. Or was she simply just writing a comic that starred women, so it makes sense that they would be in peril. This is something I've always wanted to ask her.
Old 12-12-07 | 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by boredsilly

And I can see what you mean about Simone's early issues in the run (even though I really enjoyed those too. I think why they might have seemed a bit more like bad girls 90's comics than they actually were was Benes' art. There were more ass shots in that book than in a rap video.

Did you find it weird though that the woman behind "women in refrigerators" wrote a story were Black Canary was bound, tied, and tortured by two men and a story where Huntress slept with a loser dweeb because of her low self esteem? Those two things really struck me as odd, and I wonder if it was Gail commenting on the treatment of women in DC or falling into similar traps as her male peers. Or was she simply just writing a comic that starred women, so it makes sense that they would be in peril. This is something I've always wanted to ask her.
Don't forget all those shots of Black Canary spread eagle.

Yes, I thought it was extremely ironic that Simone would write that into BoP. I guess it's just a fact of comicdom we're going to have to live with: violence against women is somewhat tolerated, even if it's considered taboo.
Old 12-12-07 | 05:41 PM
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Been reading a lot of comics lately, mostly getting caught up on trades & HCs, not really reading much superhero stuff.

But, I did get caught up & just read about an hour ago Green Lantern #25 & WOW!!! Best work of Johns career? Sooooooo many epic superhero events/crossovers are pretty solid up until the end, & always let you down. This is how you F'n end an epic story after going through a long stretch where I've just been so bored by everything superhero related, this is the type of story I needed. This was a classic.
Old 12-12-07 | 06:33 PM
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Everyone and their mamma is saying how awesome the Sinestro Corps War is, and how great issue 25 was that I might have to give this a go in trade form and get over my indifference to Green Lantern. Glad to see an event deliver, but I think this story was more in line with Planet Hulk* than Civil War, and we see how well PH worked out, so maybe there is a lesson in that? Keep "events" somewhat small or at least contained?

*I know Planet Hulk wasn't technically an even, but it really felt like one to me.

I read Justice today myself, having all the issues done, and it was solid, but nothing spectacular. It sounds ludicrous to say, but the allure of Ross' art is kind of gone for me now. I've always been a fan of his stuff, but this is the first book of his where the posed/static nature of his composition kind of took me out of the book a little. Don't get me wrong, it still looked beautiful, but it isn't surprising or awe-inspiring anymore. It's just good an, albeit stiff, painted comic.

Last edited by boredsilly; 12-12-07 at 06:40 PM.
Old 12-12-07 | 06:42 PM
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Definitely agree on that. Give annihilation a shot too.
Old 12-12-07 | 06:59 PM
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Holiday Shipping Schedule! My Local Friendly Neighborhood Comic Shoppe mentioned that delivery of new books would be delayed until Friday on the weeks of Christmas and New Year's. Your mileage my vary.


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