I'm just not feeling Justice League either. Did we really need two issues of the Big Three around a table picking a team? The way it ended, it might be three.

I just finished reading the issue and I completely agree. How many issues does Brad Meltzer intend to have Diana, Supes, and Bats sitting around a table? This is the JLA and we should be seeing big storylines. I enjoy the characterization, but enough of the talking heads. If this doesn't pick up steam soon, this could be the next book that I drop.

Not to side track the JL discussion, but I finally got around to reading KINGDOM COME. I loved it for the most part. I thought the story and ideas were fantastic, and that art...well, I can't say anything about the art that hasn't be said. It's awesome! But one thing I don't enjoy is these huge battles with 100s of heroes and villains. Aside from the fact that I didn't know who they all were, but you can't really get any emotion out of a scene that has that many people. Sure, the showdown sequences between Supes and Marvel were great, but some of those battle scenes were overkill. I'm not as fluent in the DC Universe as some of you, but it seems that DC does that whole epic battle too often.

All in all, I'm glad I read KC, but I'm also glad I didn't buy it.

^Kingdom Come is one of my favorite trades. For me its right up there with the Death of Superman story and Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Marvel.com's home page is announcing that Robert Downey Jr has been signed to play Iron Man. Thank god it wasn't Nicolas Cage.

See, and I liked that aspect of the book, even if it does read a little bit like fanfiction. The way things are shaping up, I'm not totally sure the JLA we see is the JLA we'll get. I'm still totally underwhelmed by the roster, but maybe that will change when they start to interact.

I do agree that the JLA should be about huge stories and threats though, but maybe DC is taking a step back from that considering the last run? At least to start.

JLA really needs to be about the most powerful heroes, not a collection of second-stringers. Every time the book started to falter in the past, it was because all of a sudden you had a group of benchwarmers on the team. Fire? Dolphin? Blue Beetle? Booster Gold? The writing may have been good, but when people think "Justice League," they're thinking Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and the other heavy hitters of the DCU.

Arguing just to argue because I pretty much agree with you, but isn't it a good idea for DC to elevate some of these second tier characters? Otherwise, the only characters that will matter are the only characters that matter.

I'm really bummed that Captain Atom doesn't seem to be getting the call for this new JLA. He's definately a heavy hitter that would fit with the threats the JLA should be facing, and as far as I know he's homeless.

Yeah, it's good to elevate chracters, but some of them are beyond elevating. Black Lightning? Whomever that woman is that's a second-rate Animal Man? I can see a couple of second-stringers, though, but at least have them be a little more powerful. My point (which was poorly written) was mainly that the book always devolves to all the powerhouses leaving, or just one of them left, and the rest of the team is made up of questionables.

We will never agree on this, because to use the cliche, any character can be great in the hands of the right writer. Look at what Simone did with the Secret Six, Johns did with the Flash rogues, or Grant did with Animal Man for proof. Vixen has plenty of potential, especially when you look at how well she was handled on the JLU cartoon. No reason she should be a top second tier character or even a low first tier one.

Yeah I agree and then they go to the "Lineup you've all been waiting for!" issue, but just to be clear do you really mean powerhouses = the most popular characters? Because I consider Green Arrow to be right there with the magnificent seven, and really he has no reason to ever go into space (same for Bats really). So it's more than just who is the strongest character because I think Vixen (the knockoff Animal Man) can do more damage than Dinah any day of the week. Same goes for Black Lightning...I think. Not really sure about his power level yet.

The real Justice League includes:

Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Flash (Barry Allen)
Martian Manhunter
Aquaman
Green Arrow
Atom
Hawkman
Hawkgirl
Black Canary
Elongated Man
Zatanna
Red Tornado
Firestorm

They look like this:


Don't get me started on who is and is not an Avenger.

You guys have it all wrong. Everybody knows this is the real Justice League:

Yeah Chew, but can that JL slice cheese with corners of their chins like this lot?



I didn't think so!

eta: and here we are talking DC and Robo is missing all the fun.

And Snapper Carr? Though I agree with you, that's the iconic Justice League to me. Though I enjoyed Giffen and Demat's comedic take on the secondary characters.

However, I have always loved the secondary characters. The first season of Justice League was good, but I loved when they started including the seldom-seen characters and even focused on them. It all usually goes to pot when we have third stringers like Vibe, Steel, Vixen and Gypsy making up the core team.

A mixture of both, I guess, although Green Arrow isn't someone I'd include on the "must have" list, and neither is Firestorm despite the character being a legit powerhouse.

I would include Aquaman, though, if for no other reason than he was a mainstay of the cartoon series that so many of today's readers remember.

As for not belonging out in space, that's a limitation, sure, but all the powerhouses have limitations. Superman, for example, has no reason to go near any magical foe.

As for having the right writer, sometimes a character is so damaged by years of misuse that you can't accept that they're a legitimate player. For example, I don't care that they now claim so many of the cheesy villains were just made inept because of brainwashing, they'll always be cheesy. They can write Dr. Light as a badass all they want, but he's always going to be an inept villain that, in my eyes, simply had his backstory conveniently tweaked to fit a desired plot line.

Snapper never did anything for me, but I guess he can tag along.

Like you, I enjoyed the Giffen/DeMatteis League, but it didn't feel like the Justice League to me. And the Detroit League was a whole 'nother ball of wax -- I think Gerry Conway wanted to use characters he "owned," because you can't do a Superman story that "counts" in the Justice League, since everybody "knows" that if anything "important" were to happen to Superman, it would happen in his own book. So at a time when the most popular titles were angsty team books like X-Men, Team Titans, and LSH, Conway was stuck with icons who couldn't be angsty -- unless he jetisoned them in favor of Vibe and Vixen.

But in general, I don't really mind when writers want to mix in one or two of their pet characters, but the League should be primarily -- somewhere in the nieghborhood of 80% or more -- the classic heroes I listed above. A line-up of Superman, Batman, WW, GL, Hawkman, Flash, Atom, and Geomancer might be OK, but a line-up of Geomancer, Starman (the Will Payton version), Goldstar, Changeling, Batman, Hourman, and Uncle Sam -- while it might make for a great book -- just wouldn't feel like the Justice League to me.

And there are some characters I give more leeway to than others. Iconic characters who would have been in the classic Justice League had DC owned them at the time -- Plastic Man, Captain Marvel, Captain Atom, and Blue Beetle -- get more leeway than others. Subs -- like John Stewart for Hal Jordan -- get a little more leeway. And characters with a JL history (JL Detroit or Giffen/DeMatteis, for example), get a little more leeway. So I'd rather see someone mix in Booster Gold -- who's got a 20-year JL history at this point -- than Negative Man, for example.

Just my two cents.

It's like a cocktease so i'm not getting my hopes up.

Actually, I'm reading along but i get tired of disagreeing with you guys and I'm sure you guys get tired of read-...skipping over... my posts. Or maybe you don't.

Same comics for me this month:
Jonah Hex
Fell

and picked up in the trade department:
Jinx, an alex toth book and punisher max hardcover

every once in a while Ill pick up something by ennis or ellis. Picked up the first issue of the boys and thought it was okay. Will wait for the trade though, same with eternals.

And I miss SOLO.

Wizard has gone full spank mag now. They're not even trying anymore.

I would totally include Aquaman. He can be cool as shit though I don't read his solo title. The orange shirt and green pants classic look with the blue fist is such an awesome design. Too bad it's gone.

I'm glad I don't read Wizard anymore. I noticed that they eliminated the tag "The Comics Magazine" from the cover, so now it looks like they are going the way of FHM or Stuff. I get most of my comics news from the internet and sites like Newsarama anyways.

in JLA 1 didn't Batman refer to "Arthur"( I assume he meant Aquaman) as a "heavy gun"?

Did he really say "Author" or "Arthur"?

DOH!

That's the problem with any sort of monthly news periodical, you can find up to the minute news online, so why bother paying for it a month or more later?

True, but up until even a year or so ago Wizard was able to get exclusive scoops before the online news media. Now that even seems to have gone by the wayside as any big news item seems to hit message boards first because most comic insiders seem to post on comics-related boards.