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OK. I'm seriously thinking of starting to re-read the entire trilogy, beginning, of course, with "Game of Thrones." This time, I will try and pay better attention to some of the fine points.
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It would be interesting to see if you (or others) have any new insights. Too bad the original you started was lost. I guess we can re-itereate the questions/observations we had some time. I know there are others that have read the books that didn't contribute to our original discussion.
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Actually, im now reading the first 3 in David Farland's, Runelord saga, I ordered the 3rd one and am reading the first 2 to catch up and this is a great serie, you guys should really read it. I'm also working my way back to A Storm of Swords, but like I said, I'm reading The Runelords again first and so should you :)
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Originally posted by Feneant Actually, im now reading the first 3 in David Farland's, Runelord saga, I ordered the 3rd one and am reading the first 2 to catch up and this is a great serie, you guys should really read it. I'm also working my way back to A Storm of Swords, but like I said, I'm reading The Runelords again first and so should you :) |
Originally posted by Feneant Actually, im now reading the first 3 in David Farland's, Runelord saga, I ordered the 3rd one and am reading the first 2 to catch up and this is a great serie, you guys should really read it. I'm also working my way back to A Storm of Swords, but like I said, I'm reading The Runelords again first and so should you :) Yrth, it's not as 'gritty' as Martin's stuff; but what is? ;) It's been a while since I read them (maybe over a year, and I've probably read 30 books since then), but I seem to recall it was more on the 'gritty' than 'light' side. The bad guys are intelligent, and I seem to remember more than one of the good guys dying. I also found the system of 'magic' interesting. |
I don't think there are any Fantasy books that come even close to these in terms of total disregard for Hero's and Villians'. I don't ever recall rooting for a villian in any other novel or throwing down a book in disgust because one of my favorite characters was killed off, but saying this makes me love these books even more because you really can't tell what will happen next. And the way the chapters are set up makes you want to get to the next character but enough gushing
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Originally posted by Sn0 I don't think there are any Fantasy books that come even close to these in terms of total disregard for Hero's and Villians'. I don't ever recall rooting for a villian in any other novel or throwing down a book in disgust because one of my favorite characters was killed off, but saying this makes me love these books even more because you really can't tell what will happen next. And the way the chapters are set up makes you want to get to the next character but enough gushing |
Originally posted by p1forest Originally posted by Sn0 I don't think there are any Fantasy books that come even close to these in terms of total disregard for Hero's and Villians'. I don't ever recall rooting for a villian in any other novel or throwing down a book in disgust because one of my favorite characters was killed off, but saying this makes me love these books even more because you really can't tell what will happen next. And the way the chapters are set up makes you want to get to the next character but enough gushing But I'm still stunned at how "good" characters are just knocked off. I remember not believing the execution that took place in Book 1 Spoiler:
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Kind of leads to wonder how many books will be in the serie if he keeps on killing so many. I'm starting to read book 3 again tonight or tommorow as my Runelord #3 book hasn't arrived yet.
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Originally posted by Feneant Kind of leads to wonder how many books will be in the serie if he keeps on killing so many. I'm starting to read book 3 again tonight or tommorow as my Runelord #3 book hasn't arrived yet. Now that you're re-reading the third book, don't forget to try to remember who that character was, the one that seemed to be able to kill anyone and make it seem like an accident. I still think it was a Faceless one. |
I've re-read it, but couldn't find the things I had seen last time... guess we won't know, maybe I had imagined the whole thing the last time. Although now that I have read the 3rd book again, I think we will see at least 2 more books in the series, one to kill a few remaining characters like the 3rd and a 5th book where we will see the battle between fire and darkness which leads me to a few questions. Will that Targayen chick come back to Westeros or stay on the other continent since she's decided to rule, and if she does come back, what side will she be on, fire or darkness? I'm also wondering if the outlaws and the guy who dies constanly (Beric Dondarrion I think), will they join Stannis at the wall and fight as his hero as he seems to be chosen (or so the priest says). Two things I noticed with the way the chapters are divided is I skipped some, but always for the same characters as they seemed boring, anyone else do this? The other thing I noticed is with the way it's written, Martin could easily choose quite a few ways to go with his next book and leave some stuff for later, he didn't take the time to end his plots like some authors do, he just stops writting about them once they reach the climax and leaves the door open for the next book.
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Originally posted by Feneant I've re-read it, but couldn't find the things I had seen last time... guess we won't know, maybe I had imagined the whole thing the last time. Although now that I have read the 3rd book again, I think we will see at least 2 more books in the series, one to kill a few remaining characters like the 3rd and a 5th book where we will see the battle between fire and darkness which leads me to a few questions. I agree, there seem to be (at least) 2 more books in this series Originally posted by Feneant Will that Targayen chick come back to Westeros or stay on the other continent since she's decided to rule, and if she does come back, what side will she be on, fire or darkness? Originally posted by Feneant I'm also wondering if the outlaws and the guy who dies constanly (Beric Dondarrion I think), will they join Stannis at the wall and fight as his hero as he seems to be chosen (or so the priest says). Originally posted by Feneant Two things I noticed with the way the chapters are divided is I skipped some, but always for the same characters as they seemed boring, anyone else do this? The other thing I noticed is with the way it's written, Martin could easily choose quite a few ways to go with his next book and leave some stuff for later, he didn't take the time to end his plots like some authors do, he just stops writting about them once they reach the climax and leaves the door open for the next book. |
Originally posted by p1forest I agree, there seem to be (at least) 2 more books in this series[/B] http://pub26.ezboard.com/basoiaf http://www.georgerrmartin.com/ |
Originally posted by KirstenS Originally posted by p1forest I agree, there seem to be (at least) 2 more books in this series http://pub26.ezboard.com/basoiaf http://www.georgerrmartin.com/ [/B] But then again, I suppose we should be grateful that he is not a hack, just spitting them out at more than one per year like some others we know about. Quality does take time. :) |
Originally posted by Yrth Originally posted by KirstenS Originally posted by p1forest I agree, there seem to be (at least) 2 more books in this series http://pub26.ezboard.com/basoiaf http://www.georgerrmartin.com/ But then again, I suppose we should be grateful that he is not a hack, just spitting them out at more than one per year like some others we know about. Quality does take time. :) [/B] Yrth, I agree. Catch-22; You're dying for the next book, but you don't want his quality to suffer. I perused that forum mentioned above a bit, and apparently GRRM tries to answer all e-mails sent to him. Which is terrific and I applaud him for it, but another catch-22; while he's writing e-mails he not writing Dance with Dragons...:( |
Feneant, regarding your question about Daenerys returning:
I perused the boards a little bit that were posted above, and came across this comment by GRRM: "Yes, three more volumes remain. The series could almost be considered as two linked trilogies, although I tend to think of it more as one long story. The next book, A Dance With Dragons, will focus on the return of Daenerys Targaryen to Westeros, and the conflicts that creates. After that comes The Winds of Winter. I have been calling the final volume A Time For Wolves, but I am not happy with that title and will probably change it if I can come up with one that I like better." There also seems to be a general consensus that the character we discussed before is a Faceless One (however, they obviously debated it long before; I'll try to find that old thread and linkify it). They also have argued about Syrio's death, and about Syrio possibly being the above character. I can't remember whether it was you for Yrth that originally brought this up. Edited to add a link to a Faceless One discussion http://pub26.ezboard.com/fasoiaffrm2...icID=836.topic [Edited by p1forest on 05-07-01 at 03:59 PM] |
Originally posted by p1forest BTW, it's your fault if I get fired! :D[/B] |
Originally posted by KirstenS Originally posted by p1forest BTW, it's your fault if I get fired! :D Yes, I saw the discussions you mention, and found them very interesting. I've only been able to read a little of the visions/foreshadowing thread, and it made me realize how little I've noticed on the first pass of the first three books (party due to the fact that my main reading time is usually in bed before I go to sleep :)). I MUST re-read this series to catch more of the foreshadowing that seems much more obvious now. |
I can't remember what thread someone mentioned Runelords by Farland.
Well, on that suggestion, I read it. While not as good IMO as the Martin series, I liked it well enough. I would have liked it more if some of the magic hadn't seemed too arbitrary for me. I mean, the rune/endowment magic system was interesting and OK but other magic seemed more haphazard. For example, Spoiler:
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Originally posted by Yrth I can't remember what thread someone mentioned Runelords by Farland. Well, on that suggestion, I read it. While not as good IMO as the Martin series, I liked it well enough. I would have liked it more if some of the magic hadn't seemed too arbitrary for me. I mean, the rune/endowment magic system was interesting and OK but other magic seemed more haphazard. For example, Spoiler:
I'm bored lately so I've started reading the Shannara books again by Terry Brooks and since I've read tons of books after I read those and I re-read them now, I pretty much hate them... they are sooooooooooo boring, I'll have to go back to re-reading Feist's. On another note, I'm getting book 3 this week from the Runelords serie and will have it read very soon. |
Originally posted by Feneant Originally posted by Yrth I can't remember what thread someone mentioned Runelords by Farland. Well, on that suggestion, I read it. While not as good IMO as the Martin series, I liked it well enough. I would have liked it more if some of the magic hadn't seemed too arbitrary for me. I mean, the rune/endowment magic system was interesting and OK but other magic seemed more haphazard. For example, Spoiler:
I'm bored lately so I've started reading the Shannara books again by Terry Brooks and since I've read tons of books after I read those and I re-read them now, I pretty much hate them... they are sooooooooooo boring, I'll have to go back to re-reading Feist's. On another note, I'm getting book 3 this week from the Runelords serie and will have it read very soon. |
Originally posted by Yrth Originally posted by Feneant Originally posted by Yrth I can't remember what thread someone mentioned Runelords by Farland. Well, on that suggestion, I read it. While not as good IMO as the Martin series, I liked it well enough. I would have liked it more if some of the magic hadn't seemed too arbitrary for me. I mean, the rune/endowment magic system was interesting and OK but other magic seemed more haphazard. For example, Spoiler:
I'm bored lately so I've started reading the Shannara books again by Terry Brooks and since I've read tons of books after I read those and I re-read them now, I pretty much hate them... they are sooooooooooo boring, I'll have to go back to re-reading Feist's. On another note, I'm getting book 3 this week from the Runelords serie and will have it read very soon. It's been awhile since I read the 2 1st Farland books, so I can't quite recall the sequence of events you're talking about; but after reading Martin, I've found myself being much more critical of other writers that I read. :) I agree with you guys. Using the power of his Voice to win over enemies and convince others to do as he commands might be a little 'wussy' and not as interesting as far as the story is concerned. But, within the magic system that Farland has created, it seems to be logically what the guy ("Raj Ahtan?") would use. He keeps his armies intact, the cities he's invading intact, and in the shortest amount of time possible, he's captured another city. Yes, the catch 22's with the endowments are good, instead of having unchecked power with no down-sides. And they make sense, instead of just some arbitrary negatives. You know, someone should change the thread title to "Yrth, Feneant, and P1forest discussing Fantasy Fiction." |
Good point for the sleep thing, might have been a desperate gamble. I think the wylde was more of a being pushed over the edge move to show Raj'Asthen that he wouldn't go down so easily. It might also be that he needed a reason to bring the wylde in the book for later on when she falls out of the sky and he had no other way of writting her in. I do wonder though, why does she fall out of the sky, last I read, she didn't have wings yet plummets out of the sky, what's up with that?
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Old thread but,
I am just about finished with the Game of Thrones and do like it. I was just wondering if there is a book or interenet resource out there with good maps of what goes on in the books. The little maps in the book are ok, but I'd like to see some with more detail, especially of the battles. |
Starman, I give you the nod of the day for reviving a 6 year old thread, and yet the question you ask is still relevant. I am one of those that always looks to the front of the books to try and find out the scale and scope of the world and where the characters are at (GRRM, Jordan, Erickson, you all have much to improve upon).
Hopefully, the maps you suggest will be out for Dance. |
Originally Posted by Ozzy's Bat Head
Starman, I give you the nod of the day for reviving a 6 year old thread, and yet the question you ask is still relevant.
But yeah, I'm surprised with the popularity of this series, that I am unable to track down a sort of 'historical atlas'. |
Everything you need to know about Westeros and what not is here: http://www.towerofthehand.com/books/
It has chapter summaries, maps (using Google maps), place descriptions, character descriptions and every reference to those characters in the books. Every person great or small has a mention. The books are far too big and complex to try and hold everything in your head so I consider these resources invaluable. The great thing about it is you can set the scope (i.e. the last book you read) so that nothing gets spoiled if you want to look up Jon Snow but have only read Game of Thrones. I linked to the main resource page chiefly because there are things that could be considered spoilers on the front page (at one time there was a poll question about if/when a character would die which made it obvious they were still alive at the end of the book I had just started). The maps aren't really too much different than what's in the books (I'm not even sure if they have extra locations marked), but you can zoom in pan around and do all the things you can do in regular google maps which is nice. You can also search for places which should provide a description of where something is. |
By book 4 the maps in the front are really detailed
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Re: Game of Thrones
Reading this book now, and really enjoying it. The link that Mordred posted above is a great resource, given the large number of characters.
The series is being developed for HBO, with this book being the basis for the first season. There is a discussion thread started on TV Talk. |
Re: Game of Thrones
I thought that Book Talkers might be interested in the BBC article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26824993
Martin has recently cited a French series of novels as inspirational: Martin says one of his main inspirations was not fantasy, but a series of novels set in medieval France, little known or read in the English language. Les Rois Maudits (The Accursed Kings) was written by Maurice Druon between the mid-1950s and the 1970s. It's a seven-volume saga chronicling the dynastic fight for the French throne in the early part of the 14th Century, culminating in the Hundred Years War. "The Accursed Kings has it all," writes Martin, in an introduction to a recently reissued translation. "Believe me, the Starks and the Lannisters have nothing on the Capets and Plantagenets. It is the original game of thrones. [...] Denjean says that Les Rois Maudits passed from cult to mainstream success with a screen adaptation in the early 70s - a sort of French equivalent to I, Claudius. "It was a primetime TV show - these were the days when you had one or two channels and everyone would watch together." Druon was also among the approved list of French novelists approved in the USSR at that time. Later, Vladimir Putin was an admirer of Druon, meeting him several times. Druon's books have waned in popularity even in France in recent years, according to Lichfield. "I wonder how many French Game of Thrones fans have even heard of him," he says. But history may be coming full circle. The Accursed Kings sequence is being reissued in English translation, complete with Martin's introduction. It may be that Druon will find a whole new audience on the recommendation of the writer his books influenced." |
Re: Game of Thrones
I did not know that.. .If they translate the books I would be interested in reading them.
Thanks for posting the article link. |
Re: Game of Thrones
Didn't he previously say that the historical inspiration was The War of the Roses?
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Re: Game of Thrones
Originally Posted by Canis Firebrand
(Post 12067687)
I did not know that.. .If they translate the books I would be interested in reading them.
Thanks for posting the article link. let us know how they are |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/31077136
I know that there has been discussion somewhere in Book Talk regarding GRRM's egregious delay in progressing with the series in which hundreds of thousands of fans have invested much time (and some money).
As this was one of the first threads to look at the books and has been updated periodically I thought I'd post the latest word here: Next Game of Thrones book The Winds of Winter won't be out until 2016 George RR Martin's publisher says a follow-up to 2011's A Dance with Dragons won't be released this year. It had been hoped that The Winds of Winter, from the A Song of Ice and Fire series, would be out in 2015. But those hopes have been dashed by book publishing company, HarperCollins. "I have no information on likely delivery," Jane Johnson from the company told the Guardian. "These are increasingly complex books and require immense amounts of concentration to write. "Fans really ought to appreciate that the length of these monsters is equivalent to two or three novels by other writers." George RR Martin had to write a blog post in December saying that The Winds of Winter was not being released after rumours started online.
Originally Posted by GRRM
"Somehow, from somewhere, the rumour arose that the '12 Days' were actually a countdown ... not to Xmas, but to the publication of The Winds of Winter, or the announcement of its completion and/or pub date," he wrote.
"Sorry. Not true. Look, I've said before, and I will say again, I don't play games with news about the books. "I know how many people are waiting, how long they have been waiting, how anxious they are. I am still working on Winds. When it's done, I will announce it here. "There won't be any clues to decipher, any codes or hidden meanings, the announcement will be straightforward and to the point. "I won't time it to coincide with Xmas or Valentine's Day or Lincoln's Birthday, the book will not rise from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. "When it is done, I will say that's it is done, on whatever day I happen to finish. I don't know how I can make it any clearer." |
Re: Game of Thrones
"Fans really ought to appreciate that the length of these monsters is equivalent to two or three novels by other writers." |
Re: Game of Thrones
I'm finishing up with A Dance with Dragons, reading the series straight through. It's started to become a bit much, as Polizei mentioned, because there is a fair amount of stuff that isn't really relevant. I suppose it immerses some into the world more, but for me, it's more than is necessary.
Anyway, the plan is for two more and then that's it, right? Maybe we'll be able to finish it up in 2020. |
Re: Game of Thrones
It won't be done in 2020. I'm betting he won't even get Winds out until early 2017 and die before the last book. Old and enormously fat is not a good combo.
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Re: Game of Thrones
I still predict:
1. He will add at least one more book. 2. TWoW won't be released until after the tv series ends. |
Re: Game of Thrones
"These are increasingly complex books and require immense amounts of concentration to write. "Fans really ought to appreciate that the length of these monsters is equivalent to two or three novels by other writers." |
Re: Game of Thrones
Not saying the book will be out this year, because it likely won't, but the quoted article (and many others) seem to be sensationalist reporting. The publisher didn't say that it wouldn't come out this year, just that there are no plans for it to come out. IIRC, when Martin finally finished ADWD, it was published like 3-4 months after he announced he'd finished it and there'd been no 'it's coming' prior to that.
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