Yrth

OK. I'm seriously thinking of starting to re-read the entire trilogy, beginning, of course, with "Game of Thrones." This time, I will try and pay better attention to some of the fine points.

p1forest

It would be interesting to see if you (or others) have any new insights. Too bad the original you started was lost. I guess we can re-itereate the questions/observations we had some time. I know there are others that have read the books that didn't contribute to our original discussion.

Feneant

Actually, im now reading the first 3 in David Farland's, Runelord saga, I ordered the 3rd one and am reading the first 2 to catch up and this is a great serie, you guys should really read it. I'm also working my way back to A Storm of Swords, but like I said, I'm reading The Runelords again first and so should you

Yrth

Well, is Runelords "gritty" in the tradition of Game of Thrones or is it "light" more in the tradition of Lord of the Rings (where the bad guys always make stupid mistakes and just about no good guys die)?

p1forest

Actually, I've read the 1st 2 of the series; I liked them too; You just reminded me to pick up the 3rd one, after I read Shadow of the Hegemon by Orson Scott Card and Soldiers Live by Glen Cook.

Yrth, it's not as 'gritty' as Martin's stuff; but what is? It's been a while since I read them (maybe over a year, and I've probably read 30 books since then), but I seem to recall it was more on the 'gritty' than 'light' side. The bad guys are intelligent, and I seem to remember more than one of the good guys dying. I also found the system of 'magic' interesting.

Sn0

I don't think there are any Fantasy books that come even close to these in terms of total disregard for Hero's and Villians'. I don't ever recall rooting for a villian in any other novel or throwing down a book in disgust because one of my favorite characters was killed off, but saying this makes me love these books even more because you really can't tell what will happen next. And the way the chapters are set up makes you want to get to the next character but enough gushing

p1forest

I totally agree; in other books, when a 'good guy' is put in danger, you always know they'll survive, so there's not much suspense. You NEVER know in Martin's books. Plus I love how the 'bad guys' are intelligent, compassionate, and show their good sides.

Yrth

Yep. This is something I like as well. To be honest, I was very surprised at how Martin pulled off Jaime in the third book. I despised him in the first couple of books and still didn't like him in the beginning of the third but he has become a very sympathetic character IMO. I actually kind of like him now.

But I'm still stunned at how "good" characters are just knocked off. I remember not believing the execution that took place in Book 1 because up until then I'd never really fantasy where a major character just got killed off like that.

Feneant

Kind of leads to wonder how many books will be in the serie if he keeps on killing so many. I'm starting to read book 3 again tonight or tommorow as my Runelord #3 book hasn't arrived yet.

p1forest

True; I thought it was supposed to be a trilogy (I have no idea where I got that idea, though). However, in the 2nd & 3rd books, he introduced a lot of new characters.

Now that you're re-reading the third book, don't forget to try to remember who that character was, the one that seemed to be able to kill anyone and make it seem like an accident. I still think it was a Faceless one.

Feneant

I've re-read it, but couldn't find the things I had seen last time... guess we won't know, maybe I had imagined the whole thing the last time. Although now that I have read the 3rd book again, I think we will see at least 2 more books in the series, one to kill a few remaining characters like the 3rd and a 5th book where we will see the battle between fire and darkness which leads me to a few questions. Will that Targayen chick come back to Westeros or stay on the other continent since she's decided to rule, and if she does come back, what side will she be on, fire or darkness? I'm also wondering if the outlaws and the guy who dies constanly (Beric Dondarrion I think), will they join Stannis at the wall and fight as his hero as he seems to be chosen (or so the priest says). Two things I noticed with the way the chapters are divided is I skipped some, but always for the same characters as they seemed boring, anyone else do this? The other thing I noticed is with the way it's written, Martin could easily choose quite a few ways to go with his next book and leave some stuff for later, he didn't take the time to end his plots like some authors do, he just stops writting about them once they reach the climax and leaves the door open for the next book.

p1forest

Argh...too bad re-reading didn't remind you of what you saw before. Oh well, maybe it'll come to you later.

I agree, there seem to be (at least) 2 more books in this series

I would think she'd finally come back to Westeros; It would seem (to me) disappointing if she didn't. Plus, it would be a little strange to spend so much time on a character with no eventual interaction with the other characters except that they know she's a threat running around on the other side of the world. I'm guessing that she will come back, with her armies, and join the "good guys" (if there truly are any in a Martin book ) against the Others ('fire' vs. 'ice')

Interesting question. Your question brings up another. What would happen if the 2 different priests of the fire god get together? Would they hate eachother? They worship the same god, but seem to have very different philosophies and methods. Thinking about the possibilities for chaos if this occurs makes me think it's going to happen.

I didn't skip any chapters (but have only re-read the 1st book). I believe his method of not concluding certain story arcs is deliberate, another method of creating suspense and keeping the reader guessing. While I find this a little frustrating, since there are SO many things left open and hanging, it is an effective method. I'm dying to get my hands on the next book, moreso than any other book I'm waiting to read.

KirstenS

There will be 3 more for a total of 6. Check out these sites for more information:

http://pub26.ezboard.com/basoiaf
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/

Yrth

If only he didn't take years between each novel.

But then again, I suppose we should be grateful that he is not a hack, just spitting them out at more than one per year like some others we know about. Quality does take time.

p1forest

KirstinS - thanks for the links; Someone before mentioned the forums, but I've never bothered looking before. That forum looks very interesting, and may answer questions Yrth, Feneant (and a few others) had discussed previously. BTW, it's your fault if I get fired!

Yrth, I agree. Catch-22; You're dying for the next book, but you don't want his quality to suffer. I perused that forum mentioned above a bit, and apparently GRRM tries to answer all e-mails sent to him. Which is terrific and I applaud him for it, but another catch-22; while he's writing e-mails he not writing Dance with Dragons...

p1forest

Feneant, regarding your question about Daenerys returning:

I perused the boards a little bit that were posted above, and came across this comment by GRRM:


"Yes, three more volumes remain. The series could almost be considered as two linked trilogies, although I tend to think of it more as one long story. The next book, A Dance With Dragons, will focus on the return of Daenerys Targaryen to Westeros, and the conflicts that creates. After that comes The Winds of Winter. I have been calling the final volume A Time For Wolves, but I am not happy with that title and will probably change it if I can come up with one that I like better."

There also seems to be a general consensus that the character we discussed before is a Faceless One (however, they obviously debated it long before; I'll try to find that old thread and linkify it).

They also have argued about Syrio's death, and about Syrio possibly being the above character. I can't remember whether it was you for Yrth that originally brought this up.

Edited to add a link to a Faceless One discussion

http://pub26.ezboard.com/fasoiaffrm2...icID=836.topic

[Edited by p1forest on 05-07-01 at 03:59 PM]

KirstenS

That is the precise reason I am SO glad I don't have internet access at work. I've literally spent hours at a time reading that board and this one! I especially like the discussions about Sansa and about visions/foreshadowing.

p1forest

Well, I spent about 2 hour reading that forum today...and I'll be reading more tonight I already spend too much in the Other Forum, cranky's Other...*ack*

Yes, I saw the discussions you mention, and found them very interesting. I've only been able to read a little of the visions/foreshadowing thread, and it made me realize how little I've noticed on the first pass of the first three books (party due to the fact that my main reading time is usually in bed before I go to sleep ). I MUST re-read this series to catch more of the foreshadowing that seems much more obvious now.

Yrth

I can't remember what thread someone mentioned Runelords by Farland.

Well, on that suggestion, I read it. While not as good IMO as the Martin series, I liked it well enough. I would have liked it more if some of the magic hadn't seemed too arbitrary for me. I mean, the rune/endowment magic system was interesting and OK but other magic seemed more haphazard. For example, . I just think the rationale/logic behind some of that stuff could have been done better.

Feneant

Hmmm, He put him to sleep only because he was able to pull power from the Earth at the 7 stones I think, and putting someone to sleep and killing them is quite different. I don't mind the Runelords, but I do hate how he uses his voice to destroy cities... what a wussy weapon, fight like a real man.

I'm bored lately so I've started reading the Shannara books again by Terry Brooks and since I've read tons of books after I read those and I re-read them now, I pretty much hate them... they are sooooooooooo boring, I'll have to go back to re-reading Feist's. On another note, I'm getting book 3 this week from the Runelords serie and will have it read very soon.

Yrth

Well, but why would he create the wylde first if not to fight? Then, when that didn't pan out because the wylde left he put them to sleep. I agree about the voice though. No need to fight battles at all now, just scream yourself to victory. I kind of do like the catch 22 with endowments of metabolism and the "warrior of unfortunate proportions" stuff.

p1forest

The mention of Farland was in this thread, near the top.

It's been awhile since I read the 2 1st Farland books, so I can't quite recall the sequence of events you're talking about; but after reading Martin, I've found myself being much more critical of other writers that I read.

I agree with you guys. Using the power of his Voice to win over enemies and convince others to do as he commands might be a little 'wussy' and not as interesting as far as the story is concerned. But, within the magic system that Farland has created, it seems to be logically what the guy ("Raj Ahtan?") would use. He keeps his armies intact, the cities he's invading intact, and in the shortest amount of time possible, he's captured another city.

Yes, the catch 22's with the endowments are good, instead of having unchecked power with no down-sides. And they make sense, instead of just some arbitrary negatives.

You know, someone should change the thread title to "Yrth, Feneant, and P1forest discussing Fantasy Fiction."

Feneant

Good point for the sleep thing, might have been a desperate gamble. I think the wylde was more of a being pushed over the edge move to show Raj'Asthen that he wouldn't go down so easily. It might also be that he needed a reason to bring the wylde in the book for later on when she falls out of the sky and he had no other way of writting her in. I do wonder though, why does she fall out of the sky, last I read, she didn't have wings yet plummets out of the sky, what's up with that?

starman9000

Old thread but,

I am just about finished with the Game of Thrones and do like it. I was just wondering if there is a book or interenet resource out there with good maps of what goes on in the books. The little maps in the book are ok, but I'd like to see some with more detail, especially of the battles.

Ozzy's Bat Head

Starman, I give you the nod of the day for reviving a 6 year old thread, and yet the question you ask is still relevant. I am one of those that always looks to the front of the books to try and find out the scale and scope of the world and where the characters are at (GRRM, Jordan, Erickson, you all have much to improve upon).

Hopefully, the maps you suggest will be out for Dance.