04/12/06 - South Park - Cartoon Wars Part II
04-13-06, 05:46 PM
#101
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I think the whole take-home message was in the last few minutes. We can democratically show, on national tv, images of Jesus dropping turds on President Bush, yet because in some other countries people get offended by the freedom to have such rights, we thusly have to oblige by their "standards" when it comes to their "societal" norms. We don't have to worry about terrorism over the very crudely portrayed (when I say crude, I'm referring to the tameness of it. it was not at all explicit.) image of Jesus defecating, but because the way the world is turning these days, there aren't too many Christina extremists who would KILL people due to this image of JC going number 2. In other parts of the world there are religious extremists who will kill someone for EVER even damning their religious savior, even though in the end, most religions are more related than one thinks. The point is not only censorship, but also hypocrisy. Why do we have to censor a PLAIN OLD image of Mohammad due to some extremists who don't themselves understand free speech. Being offended is part of being human, it gives us feelings and opinions. You can't go around killing people for mocking your religion, gender, social status, sexuality, etc, and that to me is the bigger problem than the censorship issue.
04-13-06, 05:48 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by Chew
Is it even geeker to point out the sequence was originally used in the TOS episode: "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"? 
Yes.
Yes.
F-in brilliant. I caught that too - and thought of the old-school version.
04-13-06, 05:49 PM
#103
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I think the message is even a bit broader than that. It's not just about the people who riot over the Mohammad cartoon -- it's also about the people in this country who get all pissed off and want to see things like the burning of the President in effigy or the burning of the US flag stopped over there. Sure, it would be nice if they liked us. At the same time, we have to respect their right to express themselves in a nonviolent manner, even if it rises to things we find distasteful.
04-13-06, 06:37 PM
#104
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Originally Posted by grunter
Once again, Trey and Matt get off smelling their own flatulence.
You can't get much more dilettantish and "white tower" high-and-mighty than parroting back the easiest fucking "free speech" argument in the world. "*Wah* We can't say what we want, so we're going to throw a tantrum. And on the way, look how clever we are by commenting on our own preachiness."
Sorry, but all of this hubbub over showing or not showing the image of Muhammed rings hollow for a show that routinely submits both to censorship of its own language and to a television ratings system designed to screen harmful content from the masses (or more specifically, their "little ones"). (Yes, it's true they did an episode where the word "shit" was uttered something like 127 times in 22 minutes. But that came off as much more of a ratings stunt than a hard-core stance on the ludicrousness of arbitrary broadcasting standards.)
Stan said it himself in the episode: either all topics are okay to write about or none are. I find that message compromised when its delivered in deliberately expurgated language.
Once again, except for the epic slap-fight, the episode completely failed to be funny. Contrary to Cartman's evil plan, the surest way to kill a "comedy" series isn't just to pull a single episode, it's to stop being funny.
You can't get much more dilettantish and "white tower" high-and-mighty than parroting back the easiest fucking "free speech" argument in the world. "*Wah* We can't say what we want, so we're going to throw a tantrum. And on the way, look how clever we are by commenting on our own preachiness."
Sorry, but all of this hubbub over showing or not showing the image of Muhammed rings hollow for a show that routinely submits both to censorship of its own language and to a television ratings system designed to screen harmful content from the masses (or more specifically, their "little ones"). (Yes, it's true they did an episode where the word "shit" was uttered something like 127 times in 22 minutes. But that came off as much more of a ratings stunt than a hard-core stance on the ludicrousness of arbitrary broadcasting standards.)
Stan said it himself in the episode: either all topics are okay to write about or none are. I find that message compromised when its delivered in deliberately expurgated language.
Once again, except for the epic slap-fight, the episode completely failed to be funny. Contrary to Cartman's evil plan, the surest way to kill a "comedy" series isn't just to pull a single episode, it's to stop being funny.
apparently you missed the fact that they made fun of themselves as much as anything - i forget the exact line, but it was something to the effect of "filling a show with trite moralizing messages yadda yadda..." makes it a good show! I can't understand how you can miss the blatantly obvious here.....
04-13-06, 07:18 PM
#105
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I'm confused (and I'm sorry, I haven't seen the episode yet). But some of you are criticizing them for allowing their work to be censored? Is that right?
What were their options?
a) make show as best as possible given the mandates of Comedy Central and the FCC, attempting to show how they are being censored
b) make show exactly as they would want it, and have it be censored to the point that perhaps the message is more blurred, or the show less funny
c) make a completely different show with different subject matter, therefore avoiding the censorship issue entirely, or
d) sit with their thumbs up their asses, breaking their existing contract and providing us, the viewer, with nothing
Do I have that right? Can someone please explain how choosing "a" is wrong?
What were their options?
a) make show as best as possible given the mandates of Comedy Central and the FCC, attempting to show how they are being censored
b) make show exactly as they would want it, and have it be censored to the point that perhaps the message is more blurred, or the show less funny
c) make a completely different show with different subject matter, therefore avoiding the censorship issue entirely, or
d) sit with their thumbs up their asses, breaking their existing contract and providing us, the viewer, with nothing
Do I have that right? Can someone please explain how choosing "a" is wrong?
04-13-06, 07:23 PM
#106
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Grunter, according to your logic, me deciding to not run down the street yelling, "Motherfucker!" at the top of my lungs whenver I feel the desire would be an act of censorship. (self-censorship as you call it.) I disagree with your opportunity-cost version of free speech. I'm not supporting censorship by saying/writing "effer" instead of "fucker", I'm being polite. If some guy in a black suit jumped out of the bushes and tazed me every time I did try to say, "Motherfucker!", that would be censorship, whether he worked for the Feds or for Time Warner.
04-13-06, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by grunter
FCC fines are somehow more fearsome to free and unfettered communication than are the risk to life and limb from some religious zealot? Why obey the FCC? If free expression is the goal, why submit to the FCC? Because it might cost Matt & Trey money? How friggin' noble.
It's not fear of FCC fines, though, that causes it as there's no FCC fines coming no matter what's said on Comedy Central.
04-13-06, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LurkerDan
I'm confused (and I'm sorry, I haven't seen the episode yet). But some of you are criticizing them for allowing their work to be censored? Is that right?
What were their options?
a) make show as best as possible given the mandates of Comedy Central and the FCC, attempting to show how they are being censored
b) make show exactly as they would want it, and have it be censored to the point that perhaps the message is more blurred, or the show less funny
c) make a completely different show with different subject matter, therefore avoiding the censorship issue entirely, or
d) sit with their thumbs up their asses, breaking their existing contract and providing us, the viewer, with nothing
Do I have that right? Can someone please explain how choosing "a" is wrong?
What were their options?
a) make show as best as possible given the mandates of Comedy Central and the FCC, attempting to show how they are being censored
b) make show exactly as they would want it, and have it be censored to the point that perhaps the message is more blurred, or the show less funny
c) make a completely different show with different subject matter, therefore avoiding the censorship issue entirely, or
d) sit with their thumbs up their asses, breaking their existing contract and providing us, the viewer, with nothing
Do I have that right? Can someone please explain how choosing "a" is wrong?
The point of the show was not a rallying cry for the "right" to say FUCK FUCK FUCK MOTHERFUCKING ****Y [edit: holy crap, this site just censored me! I used the "C word"] ASSHOLE on television. The show was a rallying cry to say Look! We have ACTUALLY allowed our media -most U.S. newspapers, t.v. networks (including South Park's own network), and bookstores (Borders/Waldenbooks has just announced it will not carry an issue of Skeptic because it contains the mohammed cartoons)- to have its contents dictated by fanatical islamic clerics in the middle east. We have actually essentially apologized for our traditions of free expression in the vain hope that those all powerful jihadists won't blow up OUR building or riot outside our door. And while this remarkable thing has happened- the U.S. and many western countries have actually accepted the demands that we not speak freely about one particular religion out of fear of violence- most of us have our heads in the fucking sand. Most of us aren't noticing that our entire civilization is essentially bowing down to the worst barbarians in the world. This can only lead to the end of our civilization.
Last night's South Park wasn't a laugh-a-minute like the airheaded and (in my opinion) unwatchable Family Guy, it was a serious show.
Yes, Comedy Central told them not to air an image of mohammed. Probably weeks ago. That was likely the inspiration for this episode. So yes, they knew they wouldn't show mohammed, and yes, they really were forbidden by Comedy Central from doing it.
The chill they must have felt when their original take on the riots/cartoon mess had to be scrapped led to this lucid plea that we don't sacrifice our rights and entire way of life to the worst most violent animals in the world. Like with any other animal, it doesn't back down when it senses weakness... it pounces.
Last edited by lamphorn; 04-13-06 at 08:34 PM.
04-13-06, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by theprophe
Well i just seen the uncut version floating on the net,looks real to me. He's just a normal muslim looking guy carrying a salmon helmut
04-13-06, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by theprophe
Well i just seen the uncut version floating on the net,looks real to me. He's just a normal muslim looking guy carrying a salmon helmut
04-13-06, 09:54 PM
#112
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Originally Posted by dick_grayson
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060413/..._park_muhammad
`South Park' Creators Skewer Own Network
By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer 51 minutes ago
Banned by Comedy Central from showing an image of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, the creators of "South Park" skewered their own network for hypocrisy in the cartoon's most recent episode.
The comedy — in an episode aired during Holy Week for Christians — instead featured an image of Jesus Christ defecating on President Bush and the American flag.
In an elaborately constructed two-part episode of their Peabody Award-winning cartoon, "South Park" creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker intended to comment on the controversy created by a Danish newspaper's publishing of caricatures of Muhammad. Muslims consider any physical representation of their prophet to be blasphemous.
When the cartoons were reprinted in newspapers worldwide in January and February, it sparked a wave of protests primarily in Islamic countries.
Parker and Stone were angered when told by Comedy Central several weeks ago that they could not run an image of Muhammad, according to a person close to the show who didn't want to be identified because of the issue's sensitivity.
The network's decision was made over concerns for public safety, the person said.
Comedy Central said in a statement issued Thursday: "In light of recent world events, we feel we made the right decision." Its executives would not comment further.
As is often the case with Parker and Stone, they built "South Park" around the incident. In Wednesday's episode, the character Kyle is shown trying to persuade a Fox network executive to air an uncensored "Family Guy" even though it had an image of Muhammad.
"Either it's all OK, or none of it is," Kyle said. "Do the right thing."
The executive decides to strike a blow for free speech and agrees to show it. But at the point where Muhammad is to be seen, the screen is filled with the message: "Comedy Central has refused to broadcast an image of Muhammad on their network."
It is followed shortly by the images of Christ, Bush and the flag.
A frequent "South Park" critic, William Donohue of the anti-defamation group Catholic League, called on Parker and Stone to resign out of principle for being censored.
"The ultimate hypocrite is not Comedy Central — that's their decision not to show the image of Muhammad or not — it's Parker and Stone," he said. "Like little whores, they'll sit there and grab the bucks. They'll sit there and they'll whine and they'll take their shot at Jesus. That's their stock in trade."
Parker and Stone did not immediately respond to a request through a spokesman for comment.
It's the second run-in over religion in a few months for the satirists. Comedy Central pulled a March rerun of a "South Park" episode that mocked Scientologists. Isaac Hayes, a Scientologist who voiced the Chef character on the show, resigned in protest over the episode.
"South Park" again got the last word last month with an episode where Chef was seemingly killed and mourned as a jolly guy whose brains were scrambled by the "Super Adventure Club," which turns its members into pedophiles.
Only last week, "South Park" won broadcasting's prestigious Peabody. Awards director Horace Newcomb said at the time that by its offensiveness, the show "reminds us of the need for being tolerant."
`South Park' Creators Skewer Own Network
By DAVID BAUDER, AP Television Writer 51 minutes ago
Banned by Comedy Central from showing an image of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, the creators of "South Park" skewered their own network for hypocrisy in the cartoon's most recent episode.
The comedy — in an episode aired during Holy Week for Christians — instead featured an image of Jesus Christ defecating on President Bush and the American flag.
In an elaborately constructed two-part episode of their Peabody Award-winning cartoon, "South Park" creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker intended to comment on the controversy created by a Danish newspaper's publishing of caricatures of Muhammad. Muslims consider any physical representation of their prophet to be blasphemous.
When the cartoons were reprinted in newspapers worldwide in January and February, it sparked a wave of protests primarily in Islamic countries.
Parker and Stone were angered when told by Comedy Central several weeks ago that they could not run an image of Muhammad, according to a person close to the show who didn't want to be identified because of the issue's sensitivity.
The network's decision was made over concerns for public safety, the person said.
Comedy Central said in a statement issued Thursday: "In light of recent world events, we feel we made the right decision." Its executives would not comment further.
As is often the case with Parker and Stone, they built "South Park" around the incident. In Wednesday's episode, the character Kyle is shown trying to persuade a Fox network executive to air an uncensored "Family Guy" even though it had an image of Muhammad.
"Either it's all OK, or none of it is," Kyle said. "Do the right thing."
The executive decides to strike a blow for free speech and agrees to show it. But at the point where Muhammad is to be seen, the screen is filled with the message: "Comedy Central has refused to broadcast an image of Muhammad on their network."
It is followed shortly by the images of Christ, Bush and the flag.
A frequent "South Park" critic, William Donohue of the anti-defamation group Catholic League, called on Parker and Stone to resign out of principle for being censored.
"The ultimate hypocrite is not Comedy Central — that's their decision not to show the image of Muhammad or not — it's Parker and Stone," he said. "Like little whores, they'll sit there and grab the bucks. They'll sit there and they'll whine and they'll take their shot at Jesus. That's their stock in trade."
Parker and Stone did not immediately respond to a request through a spokesman for comment.
It's the second run-in over religion in a few months for the satirists. Comedy Central pulled a March rerun of a "South Park" episode that mocked Scientologists. Isaac Hayes, a Scientologist who voiced the Chef character on the show, resigned in protest over the episode.
"South Park" again got the last word last month with an episode where Chef was seemingly killed and mourned as a jolly guy whose brains were scrambled by the "Super Adventure Club," which turns its members into pedophiles.
Only last week, "South Park" won broadcasting's prestigious Peabody. Awards director Horace Newcomb said at the time that by its offensiveness, the show "reminds us of the need for being tolerant."
Originally Posted by JacksModernLife
I think the whole take-home message was in the last few minutes. We can democratically show, on national tv, images of Jesus dropping turds on President Bush, yet because in some other countries people get offended by the freedom to have such rights, we thusly have to oblige by their "standards" when it comes to their "societal" norms. We don't have to worry about terrorism over the very crudely portrayed (when I say crude, I'm referring to the tameness of it. it was not at all explicit.) image of Jesus defecating, but because the way the world is turning these days, there aren't too many Christina extremists who would KILL people due to this image of JC going number 2. In other parts of the world there are religious extremists who will kill someone for EVER even damning their religious savior, even though in the end, most religions are more related than one thinks. The point is not only censorship, but also hypocrisy. Why do we have to censor a PLAIN OLD image of Mohammad due to some extremists who don't themselves understand free speech. Being offended is part of being human, it gives us feelings and opinions. You can't go around killing people for mocking your religion, gender, social status, sexuality, etc, and that to me is the bigger problem than the censorship issue.
Last edited by Giles; 04-13-06 at 09:58 PM.
04-13-06, 11:03 PM
#114
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So...if shows like South Park and the late, lamented Arrested Development 
, which air with bleeped dialogue (to hilarious effect), are still bleeped when released on DVD...does that mean they're still "censored"?
, which air with bleeped dialogue (to hilarious effect), are still bleeped when released on DVD...does that mean they're still "censored"?
04-13-06, 11:07 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by Lateralus
Good... Bad... Whatever, lots of people are talking about this and that brings in ratings.
Yeah, South Park could definitely use the publicity. Wouldn't want the show to get cancelled or anything..
And this was right after a promo for Saved By the Bell...coming soon to Adult Swim!
04-13-06, 11:14 PM
#116
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Shit! I just saw a McDonald's Chicken Extra Value Meal commercial that was bleeped!
Censorship!
Censorship!
04-13-06, 11:20 PM
#117
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Originally Posted by Giles
apparently this has blossomed into a major controversey both on Scarborough Country and Tucker Carlson are talking about it tonight on MSNBC. The Scarborough talk actually had the Reverend at on point, urging all Christians to call and get Comedy Central to cancel the show.... (I laughed hysterically at this). Wow - deja vu! Apparently he was also appalled at the sight of feces on President GW 'A Good man' he stated.
04-13-06, 11:25 PM
#118
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FCC does not apply to Comedy Central.
FCC makes sure that taxpayer money--used to pay for the publicly-owned TV waves in the sky--is not usedfor objectionable material.
Cable does not apply. You paid to have that wire in your home; nothing public about it.
Cable stations self-edit their own content in order to not scare advertisers away.
FCC makes sure that taxpayer money--used to pay for the publicly-owned TV waves in the sky--is not usedfor objectionable material.
Cable does not apply. You paid to have that wire in your home; nothing public about it.
Cable stations self-edit their own content in order to not scare advertisers away.
04-13-06, 11:45 PM
#119
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Originally Posted by GuessWho
FCC does not apply to Comedy Central.
FCC makes sure that taxpayer money--used to pay for the publicly-owned TV waves in the sky--is not usedfor objectionable material.
Cable does not apply. You paid to have that wire in your home; nothing public about it.
Cable stations self-edit their own content in order to not scare advertisers away.
FCC makes sure that taxpayer money--used to pay for the publicly-owned TV waves in the sky--is not usedfor objectionable material.
Cable does not apply. You paid to have that wire in your home; nothing public about it.
Cable stations self-edit their own content in order to not scare advertisers away.
04-14-06, 12:30 AM
#121
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I find parts of South Park like a bad accident, you know you shouldnt be watching, but dammit, you cant look away!!!!
04-14-06, 02:42 AM
#122
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little did comedy central know that muhammad has been in every episode this season. matt and trey stuck him in the intro montage where there's a group of characters by the south park sign. he is in the background to the right.
04-14-06, 06:31 AM
#123
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Originally Posted by Rubix
little did comedy central know that muhammad has been in every episode this season. matt and trey stuck him in the intro montage where there's a group of characters by the south park sign. he is in the background to the right.
04-14-06, 07:15 AM
#124
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Originally Posted by Rubix
little did comedy central know that muhammad has been in every episode this season. matt and trey stuck him in the intro montage where there's a group of characters by the south park sign. he is in the background to the right.
Please please please please please please let this be true.
04-14-06, 07:46 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by Rubix
little did comedy central know that muhammad has been in every episode this season. matt and trey stuck him in the intro montage where there's a group of characters by the south park sign. he is in the background to the right.
If so he is a tough one to spot.
I can't remember what he looks like. It's kind of hard to find pictures of him.