Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

So I think Microsoft was right about one thing. Digital is the future and the current console retail system probably isn’t sustainable as PC gaming gets more and more accessible. They simply went about it the wrong way about it by trying to force the issue with a closed platform that enforces digital rights rather than creating an open platform that supports multiple business models and letting customers decide when the transition will happen through normal market forces, which is the route Sony took. It also appears that Microsoft has corrected course, and their platform will be more open going forward.

Right now, the console exclusives I’m most excited about are all Free To Play (F2P) games that were released on PC last year and that are coming to PS4. If these are successful, I anticipate future F2P releases will be same-day releases on either console or both along with PC. I don't know if F2P is the future, but if nothing else, I think it's a business model that's worth having a discussion about.

I know some folks aren’t crazy about the F2P business model, but I like the idea of an online game that I can play for nothing and then really invest if I like it. I also like that it gives developers incentive to keep adding to and improving the game and also that it cuts out retail. It creates a mutually beneficial ongoing symbiosis between the people who make the game and the people who play it, and provided my total investment never exceeds the price of a retail game, I don’t see the problem. Sony, in particular, really seems to have embraced the FTP model with these three exclusive games that don’t seem to be on most gamers’ radars but, in my opinion, should be.

Warframe is a 3rd person co-op shooter with some interesting hack and slash elements that I hadn’t really picked up on until today. The gameplay looks a little bit like Gears of War with less annoying dude-bro cover shooting and more space ninja, and I’ll definitely be downloading it. At the beginning of this generation with L4D and Gears, it really seemed like co-op was going to be a big trend, but it seems to me like it was really underdone other than a few token horde modes, so I’m really looking forward to this. Also, levels are apparently procedurally generated, so it should have some lasting appeal.

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Blacklight: Retribution is simply a solid FPS with a solid mechanics, great graphics and tons of customization. It’s certainly something I’ll check out for free, and it’s probably the surest bet of the three I’m listing. Why would I pay $40-60 for the next shooter when I can buy $15 worth of guns (or spend no money at all) and be just as happy?

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Planetside 2 is a persistent “Battlefield” in space with three factions and endless epic chaos. This is easily the game I’m most excited to play. If I had to pick one thing that makes a game truly feel “next gen” right now, it wouldn't be shinier graphics but rather “persistence”. I actually thought the most interesting game I saw from E3 was The Division, which was interesting mostly because of its persistent drop in/drop out nature. Anyway, witness Planetside 2:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/6rwGPQHBbb0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Basically, I've never been an advocate of microtransactions in full retail games, but I have no problem at all with microtransactions in a free game. I'm not sure if that's a double standard, but I do think this is the kind of innovative business model that will push the industry in a more digital direction.

And I think we're gonna need bigger hard drives.

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

My main concern is the potential for abuse if this model really takes off. I hear about things like Final Fantasy: All the Bravest and cringe at where nefarious publishers could go with this.

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Oh, I agree. Some publishers will do this wrong and will use it simply to milk consumers. My hope is simply that some will get it right.

The balance between the currency you get in the game and the items you need to stay reasonably competitive is critical...especially given that the difference between the two is measured in real dollars.

Does anybody here do any F2P on PC? I'm curious about real world experience and how it compares to my speculation about supporting a few "cool looking" games.

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I prefer regular games with no microtransactions at all. Even for free, I'm reluctant to start a game with no idea if I can actually play it in any meaningful way without sinking a lot of money into it first.
I'm so wary to even pick up the free iPad apps because I never know which are just waiting to get me to spend $20-$50 once I start. I hate getting tricked and getting my gaming time wasted (as I never actually will buy any in-app purchases).
Then again, I already get my ass handed to me in any and all online competitive games, maybe FTP isn't such a bad idea.
I should check out Dust 514, just never got around to it yet.

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

I'm exactly the same way on iOS. My first question on any free iOS game is whether it's playable without in-app purchases. Then again, I fairly or unfairly look at iOS games differently than I do a full retail console/PC release. I'd say that I'm substantially more price sensitive on iOS, particularly when there are free games virtually every day. I also have never purchased an in-app purchase.

Conversely, I can think of several times that I've purchased or almost purchased items on PSN just to support games that I felt needed support. I bought the Warhawk animated theme at some point even though I don't care about my theme, and I almost bought some silly Battlefield Bad Company 2 skins just to send a message that there were people who prefered it to Battlefield 3. I get that both of those end up as small numbers on a big meaningless spreadsheet, but it made me feel better. [edit: just remembered that I purchased Bastion on iOS for $1 even though I don't have a device that will play it :lol: ]

So yeah, if a game gives me the kind of enjoyment that those two games have, I will spend money just on principle...but not very much.

I didn't even know Dust existed until today...another reason F2P is on my mind. Dust looks a little bit shaky compared to the others listed above, but there's no risk at all in checking it out, and maybe it turns out to hit a nerve with you and spending $20 on gear becomes less of a big deal.

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Free to play is fine until it becomes pay to win.

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:lol: A really succinct way of saying what I think. :up:

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These look like they're are all mostly multi-player games - I don't care for multi-player games.

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Gears of War without duck and cover? That's like Super Mario without platforming or Resident Evil without survival horror.

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

Granted, but a lot of people do. Do you like co-op, because Warframe looks like a good time?

I'm not really sure how you do F2P in the single-player space unless you do something episodic and give away the first episode, but that's not really the full game anyway and is more of a demo. Otherwise, you're looking at the kind of "buy coins or gems" shit you see on iOS.

As a sidenote for folks who want to continue to play multiplayer for free, publishers also have the option whether or not to require PS Plus for FTP games, and none of the above games require it:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/13/442...s-not-required

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

Fair enough.

I just meant that it's a third person shooter with co-op and space uglies.

Also, Resident Evil without survival horror was awesome. ;)

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The FTP is not unlike everything else out there....you get a "basic" and if you want good, better or best you'll have to pay more. No different than going into a restaurant...free to walk in but if you want a salad it'll cost you and if you want a T-Bone Steak it'll cost you even more.

It kills me though when some complain at it that you'll have to pay down the road but have no problem dishing out $60.00 for a game and another $25.00 for a season pass and later on more $$$ for some new maps or skins. But God forbid they might have to dish out $10, $20 or $30 later on a "Free Game". There is a thing called...choice

In the case of some of these FTP games maybe the solution is a low "Entry Fee" like $10-$20. Yea..it won't be called Free-To-Play but would you rather have the choice of $10-$20 or $60 plus a Season Pass? In the case of say Planetside 2 even at $20 to sign up would be a steal. Or just keep them free and have a tier system in place like Silver, Gold and Platinum. Again it's all choice for those playing. Besides...it takes some work to put this stuff and I for one have no problem throwing some money in to help keep a "Free Game" going.


By the way...thanks for posting the video of Warframe...heard of this but this is the first real video I've seen. I'll add this along with Planetside 2 (which I'm really high on) as must haves when the PS4 arrives.

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I don't think that works. The only games I've ever bought cheap and then got a bunch of DLC were Burnout Paradise and Warhawk, and that's only because they were out for more than a year when I got them. If you have a low price of entry and then nickel and dime people, they resent it. Just look at iOS for proof of that.

For the games above, the price of entry is absolutely free. You don't even need PS Plus to play them. If you love the basic game, you'll probably buy some stuff for it, which creates incentive for the devs to keep it fun to play, which means they can't overpower paying players too much. Reports from Planetside are that most of the weapons are lateral moves and most are obtainable with in-game currency.

I also disagree with the restaurant analogy unless you know of a restaurant that will give you a free meal and then charge for options. If you know of one, please let me know soonest. :)

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This reminds me of the best F2P game ever... netWAR from the late 90's lol

I also played gunbound in college. It looks like it's still around. Basically an online version of Worms where each player has their own guy.

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As far as I know ALL of the weapons are obtainable with in-game currency (certification points in PS2), I haven't seen anything in the game that you can't get without paying, it will just take you longer to get it since you would have to use your cert points that you built up for the gun instead of using them to upgrade other stuff. So basically if you want a different gun you can either pay for it or grind for it. Although I hate to even use the term grind because it's not like an MMORPG where you are doing boring shit over and over for your xp, there is nothing boring about non-stop pvp war. It's definitely not a pay to win game that's for sure.

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The problem with the restaurant analogy is that in most FTP games, there's competition involved. In some, the higher you rank on events, the better your rewards, which helps you the next time out, and the only way to get to the top is to spend money. The good games let you scrape by, but you'll never really be competitive with the spenders. And I think these are the games that rake in the money, because if it's truly FTP and you can get everything in-game, just over time, people will play for free.

The other type of game that rakes in money is something like Candy Crush, which is mainly luck-based, but will let you buy power ups (which sound great at first, but slowly but surely get marginalized as you progress). And there's the whole social aspect to hook your friends into it.

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

maybe I should've used a "Shopping Mall" instead...free to come in, look around all you want without spending a dime. But if you want spend money it's up to you.


And I agree with the part it's a lot to do with competition. No different from paid games like BF and COD where the more you play the better stuff you get. If that's the case it's not going to matter for some if it's a paid or free game when it comes to being at a slight disadvantage...like those who play BF or COD. The real question is will FTP games have a better level playing field for the majority than paid games like the COD's and BF series?

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As far as competition goes, I rarely play multiplayer, so I guess that's why I ended up taking different approaches to two iOS games.

The Simpsons: Tapped Out: Plenty to do for free, but to get better stuff you need to buy donuts. I've mostly resisted but have made a few purchases. I can visit other players and help them out, but them or me having better stuff doesn't matter for how we interact with each other's towns. Envy and "keeping up with the Joneses" is really the only reason I would see someone else's town and want to upgrade mine.

Kingdoms of Camelot: Plenty to do for free, but a limit to how big you can grow, and I've hit my limit. The problem is that anyone can randomly invade my kingdom and take my stuff, and I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who are invading are paying for bigger armies, better equipment, etc. I refuse to do that. Maybe I would if I were invading people, but as it is I just build up my free defending armies as much as I can in order to keep from being an easy ATM. If people want to invade me, they can, but I want to be sure that they expend resources and suffer damage in the process.

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Yeah, I misspoke. What I meant is that it takes a really long time to build up certification points, and you really have to be picky about what you buy if you don't want to spend cash.

Really, the grinding vs not grinding ratio will be the deal maker for me. If I'm having fun regardless and just get rewarded every now and then, then I'm in. If I feel like I'm just playing for a usable gun, that will be a problem.

Have you been playing Planetside 2 on PC? I also will be interested in how it looks and plays when it's optimised for the PS4.

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Yeah, I am playing it on PC.
I honestly don't think you will have any issue with the grinding vs not grinding ratio.
And the game does have a VR room you can use to try any of the guns before you buy them which comes in handy because I didn't realize until after I bought my first new gun that it was basically the same as the starter gun I got just with a different sight that I didn't like as much.

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iOS is kind of a different animal. Granted, there are some competitive games that look more or less like console games, but for the most part, the competitive games are high score chases and such. The money grab there is usually in you buying in game money to buy advantages, which is why I don't ever compare scores (or in your case, towns) online.

The other money grabs on iOS are for more cars/skins/levels/whatever or to remove ads. I wouldn't necessarily mind any of that, but iOS is a different market, where every game has a doppelganger that's completely free or ad supported. iOS is definitely part of the F2P discussion, but it's being done in different more subversive ways there.

I mean, it's absurd. They actually have people buying virtual donuts. ;)

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

Thanks. :up:

It's good to hear a perspective from somebody who's actually playing one of these.

It's also good to hear that you can test drive the guns before you buy them.

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:lol:

I'm imagining a Words with Friends universe in which people pay for a bigger selection of letters and kick their friend's asses. :)

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

I still don't think you're looking at this right because those are two very different experiences. I honestly can't think of a single analogy that quite works.

Maybe something like free over the air TV vs. satellite. You might have 500 channels that you pay for, and I might have 10, but as long as I enjoy those 10 channels, I'm watching TV and am just as entertained as you are. That's the best I've got, but I really don't think there's an analogy that quite works.

In my experience with BF and my limited experience with CoD, the starter guns are very usable, and I don't mind being at a slight disadvantage as long as I'm not overwhelmed.

I don't expect guns in a F2P to unlock anywhere near as quickly as they do in retail games either, but that goes back to your original point. Even if I spend $100 on guns in a F2P game that I really enjoy, how is that any worse than paying $40-60 on a retail game that in most cases I never really got to try out and for which I'll have to buy 3-5 map packs at $15 each to keep up with the community?

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

I didn't think to mention World of Tanks for the Xbox One folks.

It's exclusive to the X1 and they thought enough of it to put it on stage at E3, which was probably smart. I actually think Sony dropped the ball not showcasing Blacklight, Warframe and especially Planetside 2 and getting them in their exclusive games column.

Mod note: spoilered auto-play video:


After poking around a bit, a couple of others I'd like to see ported over to PS4 or both consoles:

Hawken (still in beta, but damn...pretty)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/YOW89sskyQM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tribes: Ascend

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There are also all varieties of MMO if you're into that kind of thing. Of those, Star Wars: The Old Republic looks the most interesting to me.

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

Sorry for multiple posts, but two more F2P PS4 exclusives:

War Thunder

Think World of Tanks but with WWII airplanes. I'm pretty excited about this one. Gameplay at about the 5 minute mark:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/T6qh1InDF_8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DC Universe Online

Nothing new here, really, but it should mirror the PC version. This one looks like it could get pricey as it's more of subscription model rather than a purchase upgrades or earn them in game model.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AOr3H6fRiZE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Re: Thoughts on "Free to Play"
 

The only F2P games that are legitimately not out to screw the end user and are great games happen to be Valve's Dota 2 and Team Fortress 2 and Riot Games' League of Legends. The user doesn't have to buy items to "win" the game, all of the paid items are mostly for decoration. While Team Fotress 2 does allow the user to buy weapons and other accesories that might give them an advantage; the longer someone plays, the more likely they'll receive the items in a drop.

The statistics don't lie. LoL averages over 500K users a day, Dota 2 averages over 300K users a day, and TF2 averages over 70K users a day (which is huge considering the game is five years old). Out of all the multiplayer games I've played, these games also have some of the best communities out there outside of Battle.net.

Blacklight: Retribution currently sees over 1K users a day on the PC, which is pretty fucking pathetic for multiplayer. Maybe that's because to get the full experience, one has to pay $75 in DLC alone. Fuck that shit. You could purchase a Battlefield or Call of Duty title when on sale, purchase all of the DLC online afterwards, and still end up at a cheaper cost. Hell, you could purchase any of the Counter-strike games which still have more users on per day (30-40K users per title) and one can pick up any of the games for under $15... or the upcoming summer Steam sale where they'll most likely be $2.49 - $4.99 again. Yet all of the DLC out for Warframe can cost upwards of $179 and the game has more than 15K users a day. :lol:

Surprisingly, PlanetSide 2 has no DLC making it truely F2P and gets over 10K users a day. :shrug: Maybe I'll have to check that one out.

While it's great to see the PS4 and XO aim for F2P titles, the majority won't give a shit unless the games are truly something or go the route where paying gives one the advantage.

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I'm not sure how well LOL translates to console controllers...looks very much like a PC game. Similarly, I get why Valve didn't bring DOTA to consoles already, but I don't understand why they didn't port a proper regularly updated TF2 over as DLC. Hell, I'd even pay $10 for it if they needed to recoup some costs.

I don't understand what you mean by "the full experience". Do you mean buying ALL of the guns and gear, or are there some map packs or something? I would think most people would only pick a few weapons that they really want and earn a few others in game.

I'm also not sure that the current players online is all that meaningful of a number when it comes to predicting how they'll do on console. I'd never heard of Warframe or Blacklight until I went looking in earnest, and console gamers are a different crowd than PC gamers. Blacklight looks like a console friendly game, and it's very polished, but it also looks like a pretty typical shooter in a VERY crowded market, so I'll take your point on that one. But Warframe is co-op, so that's a different dynamic entirely, and I'll bet it gets some play.

I expect Planetside 2 to have a really dedicated community on PS4, and there's a great chance I'll be in it, especially if the next Battlefield plays like BF3 did.

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More Hawken with a nice gameplay demo from Angry Joe:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/hXfD92PQ5ug" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This one needs to come to the consoles. Looks like a blast.

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Happy Wars is a f2p 360 game. I think it sucks though.

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This is a must read in any F2P thread: (The Top F2P Monetization Tricks ) http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Ramin...130626/194933/


There are exceptions, as mentioned above, but there are not truly free F2P games. It's a business there should be a way to get some kind of reimbursement. Even LoL and TF2 should have a way to get some money back.

And of course if the product is free, what they are selling is YOU.

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Appreciate the article, but most everything there references the kind of stuff you see on mobile or facebook games that are aimed at a less savvy market.

The stuff we're talking about here is simply a different business model for AAA (or near AAA) games where the developer has an ongoing incentive to keep the game fun both for paying and non-paying players. If there is a trick, it's in the slow trickle of in-game currency to unlock stuff compared to the instant gratification of getting that gun/perk that you want. The other possible trick is convincing the player who pays that he's getting a big advantage when he really isn't while simultaneously convincing the non-paying player that he's not outgunned when he just slightly is.

I don't think anybody here is looking at these games as "completely free", though I suppose you could. I simply look at it sort of like a loss leader. They take a financial hit to get you in the door in the hopes that their game is good enough to keep you playing (and hopefully paying at some level) or alternatively that you stick around as a slightly outgunned "bot".

My mindset is that if I really like one or more of them, and I don't find them too shady, I will find a level of financial support that corresponds with my level of enjoyment.

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To be fair, with work, LoL and Dota 2 could be ported to the next-gen consoles. Just look at Diablo III. Hell, there were rumors LoL was going to be an Xbox One F2P console exclusive.

One of the reasons Valve didn't support TF2 in its 360 variation was due to Microsoft's monetization (and this was back in 2008-2009). Valve wanted to release all of the additional guns, accessories, and maps for free like on the PC. Microsoft said no. The same thing ended up happening for Valve's two Left 4 Dead games. PC gamers got all the DLC for free, Xbox gamers had to pay for it. I wonder if Microsoft's tune on that has changed due to its focus on cloud computing. TF2 gets a patch nearly every other day and Microsoft could theoretically support that based upon comments from Insomniac and Respawn. However, I feel TF2 just works better on the PC. Not just the keyboard and mouse layout, but specifically, the community. There's a lot of community created maps that run circles around the maps Valve has officially put out that wouldn't be able to work on a console unless significant work was done.

It's also interesting to note that Valve made way more money off TF2 when it became F2P than when they sold it through retail outlets or Steam. Before Valve made it F2P, the game averaged around 20K users per day. As you can tell in my last post, that has tripled now that it's free. And yes, Valve still updates the game with different modes and map packs and they're still free for everyone. On the other hand, if you want fancy hats, you'll pay up the ass.

In regards to the full experience on games like Blacklight and Warframe, yes. To get the "full experience," the DLC that's available for these F2P games include accessories, guns, and map packs. I could see why you'd want to monetize the accessories and guns, but map packs? Why not just alienate the audience a bit more.

I've heard of Blacklight: Retribution and Warframe before. I've heard nothing but positives with the former, but the community simply isn't there to gain longevity. I don't care about third-person shooters outside of like Gears of War and Metal Gear Solid, so Warframe holds of no interest to me.

Planetside 2, if kept the same in regards to no monetization, could be one to keep an eye on. Will it be the next Battlefield? Absolutely not. In the next eight months, fans of first person shooters will be hit over the head with Battlefield 4, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Titanfall, and possibly, Destiny. There's only so much to go around. Sony and the developers will have to make the game something truly special to succeed.

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I'm curious, how do you know they made more money? Because of the number of users? Or did they release some other info. Seems to me like there's little incentive to pay for anything, though I'm not familiar enough with the community to know how many people really value the trinkets that cost money.

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http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/11/va...re-of-modding/

For third-party content, Valve takes 75% of the sale. Some of the third-party content makers make somewhere in the six-figure range on their content. However, as a private company, Valve really doesn't disclose much.

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Anyway, I would absolutely download a F2P Team Fortress 2 on console, and I'd probably buy a thing or two just on principle. It's the one I'd most like to see ported, and I can't imagine it would be a difficult port. The only reason I can think that Valve wouldn't do it is that they might want to keep the updated version exclusive to Steam.

Otherwise, I'd say that Planetside 2 is pretty much a sure thing and Warframe looks like something I'd definitely enjoy. Blacklight: Retribution, World of Tanks and War Thunder all look promising, and TF2 and Hawken are on my wishlist.

For now, I see these as legitimate games with a legitimate business model, and this is a customer base that will not tolerate being jerked around, so I'm confident we won't see a lot of iOS or facebook tactics.

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Free to Play is going to be around for a long, long time and is most definitely a legitimate business model. The big F2P games out there on PC like League of Legends is making Riot Games a ton of cash, and I know a large number of people that went to go work there because of the salaries they were throwing at people. I'm curious how the console crowd will react to it, since some couldn't get over the account based DRM type of system. I am a bit surprised that there hasn't been a push for the MOBA style games like Dota and LoL, as I think they would work pretty easily on a console.

I've played a handful to various degrees, like TF2, LoL, and just gave Hawken a try the other day. I still haven't made an in-game purchase in any of them, but its easy to see how a couple dollars here and there for a new weapon or character are so appealing.

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Everquest Next

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It's shit like this why I hate EA and most "free to play" games with every inch of my body. From Reddit...

The next one is spoiler-ized due to size:


RIP Popcap.

Oh, and speaking of Warframe: http://www.vg247.com/2013/07/15/warf...-three-months/

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Thanks for confirming that PvZ will be one of those games I played the hell out of but whose sequel I will never touch.