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-   -   Steam Machine - coming 2026 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/599532-steam-machine-coming-2026-a.html)

chuckd21 01-08-13 02:15 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Granted there'll still be something called The Steam Box, but still.

fumanstan 01-08-13 06:25 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Interview with Gabe:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/8/385...ture-of-gaming


So you're working on your own Steam Box hardware. Why work with so many partners when you have your own ideal design in mind?

What we see is you've got this sort of struggle going on between closed proprietary systems and open systems. We think that there are pluses and minuses to open systems that could make things a little messier, it’s much more like herding cats, so we try to take the pieces where we’re going to add the best value and then encourage other people to do it. So it tends to mean that a lot of people get involved. We’re not imposing a lot of restrictions on people on how they’re getting involved.

We've heard lots of rumors about the Steam Box, including that Valve's own hardware would be "tightly controlled." Can you tell us more about Valve's own hardware effort?

The way we sort of think of it is sort of "Good, Better," or "Best." So, Good are like these very low-cost streaming solutions that you’re going to see that are using Miracast or Grid. I think we’re talking about in-home solutions where you’ve got low latency. "Better" is to have a dedicated CPU and GPU and that’s the one that’s going to be controlled. Not because our goal is to control it; it’s been surprisingly difficult when we say to people "don’t put an optical media drive in there" and they put an optical media drive in there and you’re like "that makes it hotter, that makes it more expensive, and it makes the box bigger." Go ahead. You can always sell the Best box, and those are just whatever those guys want to manufacture. [Valve's position is]: let's build a thing that’s quiet and focuses on high performance and quiet and appropriate form factors.
I like his thoughts on motion gaming, which I agree with and largely dislike.


Speaking of controllers, what kind of creative inputs are you working on? Valve has already confessed its dissatisfaction with existing controllers and the kinds of inputs available. Kinect? Motion?

We’ve struggled for a long time to try to think of ways to use motion input and we really haven’t. Wii Sports is still kind of the pinnacle of that. We look at that, and for us at least, as a games developer, we can’t see how it makes games fundamentally better. On the controller side, the stuff we’re thinking of is kind of super boring stuff all around latency and precision. There’s no magic there, everybody understands when you say "I want something that’s more precise and is less laggy." We think that, unlike motion input where we kind of struggled to come up with ideas, [there's potential in] biometrics. We have lots of ideas.

I think you’ll see controllers coming from us that use a lot of biometric data. Maybe the motion stuff is just failure of imagination on our part, but we’re a lot more excited about biometrics as an input method. Motion just seems to be a way of [thinking] of your body as a set of communication channels. Your hands, and your wrist muscles, and your fingers are actually your highest bandwidth -- so to try and talk to a game with your arms is essentially saying "oh we’re gonna stop using ethernet and go back to 300 baud dial-up." Maybe there are other ways to think of that. There’s more engagement when you’re using larger skeletal muscles, but whenever we go down [that path] we sort of come away unconvinced. Biometrics on the other hand is essentially adding more communication bandwidth between the game and the person playing it, especially in ways the player isn’t necessarily conscious of. Biometrics gives us more visibility. Also, gaze tracking. we think gaze tracking is gonna turn out to be super important.

Matthew Chmiel 01-08-13 07:59 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Xi3's X7A, which is physically the same size as the "Piston," is actually a rocking machine at $999:


Originally Posted by Xi3's Press Release from October 2012
carrying a quad-core 64-bit, x86-based 32nm processor running at up to 3.2GHz underneath the hood accompanied by up to 8GB RAM, a 64GB SSD or 1TB HD, a trio of display ports, four eSATAp 3.0 ports, four USB 3.0 ports, four USB 2.0 ports, an 1Gb Ethernet port, and three audio ports.

As it stands right now, that blows practically every current-generation gaming console (360, PS3, and Wii U) right out of the water. The better question will be how far can Valve subsidize the hardware in making it affordable in the living room?

fumanstan 01-09-13 12:09 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Curious what CPU they're using; if the graphics are integrated, I'd assume an AMD chip like the A10 since anything from Intel currently wouldn't cut it. At $999 the specs aren't anything special (if not double what you could probably custom build in a small ITX case), but obviously you're paying for the ridiculously small size more then anything else.

fumanstan 09-16-13 03:50 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Maybe finally some more Steam Box news?

http://kotaku.com/gabe-newell-teases...eek-1327218081

chuckd21 09-16-13 03:53 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
http://unshavedmouse.files.wordpress...t-got-real.jpg

Dan 09-16-13 04:22 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
a linux-based Steam Box is only as good as the linux catalog of steam games, right?
In other words... :down:

RichC2 09-16-13 07:01 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
...I would laugh my ass off if there were a sudden hard shift to OpenGL.

Supermallet 09-16-13 07:48 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
If it can't play all the games that a gaming PC can, then what's the point?

edstein 09-16-13 08:13 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
What's wrong with a dedicated PC running Steam Big Picture mode and an Xbox 360 controller connected to TV? Why do I need a Steambox?

chuckd21 09-16-13 08:15 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by edstein (Post 11837452)
What's wrong with a dedicated PC running Steam Big Picture mode and an Xbox 360 controller connected to TV? Why do I need a Steambox?

People, like me, hate PCs.

RichC2 09-16-13 08:19 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Steam Box = Laptop or HTPC with an Xbox 360 controller plugged into your TV. Done.

Matthew Chmiel 09-17-13 12:07 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by RichC2 (Post 11837345)
...I would laugh my ass off if there were a sudden hard shift to OpenGL.

It would be fucking hilarious. Microsoft and Sony made such a large push for x86 architecture and DirectX to make games easier to port across platforms only for a major competitor to come along and use OpenGL instead. :lol:

I get why Valve is so inclined OpenGL. It allows a developer to do a lot more than DirectX as it has more direct access to the hardware. All of the Valve games run far better in OpenGL on Linux than with DirectX with Windows. I also get there are advantages and disadvantages to OpenGL. One of the advantages why Steam might be more inclined to use (Linux and) OpenGL is that you can get a lot of power while using very minimal (i.e. cheaper) hardware. Just look at OpenGL ES 3.0. You can get close to current-generation graphics on a smartphone or tablet. You would also have practically every independent developer on board. The disadvantage is that a lot of the big developers and publishers might not see an investment in having to now recode their games for OpenGL on a system that may or may not work.

As Sony has proven, most people are not willing to pay more than $399 for a gaming console. Based upon prototypes Valve were playing with, the Steambox could cost a grand. The majority will not spend a thousand bucks on a box to connect to their television. However, if Valve can build together a box that has similar hardware at half the price, then it might get people interested and bought it.

It could be this generation's Xbox. Or it could be this generation's Dreamcast.

flashburn 09-17-13 05:00 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 11837714)
It would be fucking hilarious. Microsoft and Sony made such a large push for x86 architecture and DirectX to make games easier to port across platforms only for a major competitor to come along and use OpenGL instead. :lol:

:lol: More uninformed nonsense. Neither Sony or MS use DirectX on the consoles.

Also, as far as I'm aware, this project is cancelled/on hold.

edit: The project I was referring to is the actual "Steam box". I believe they are going to go a different route and just rely on OEM's to release licensed "Steam Boxes" which I guess in the end is sort of the same thing.

chuckd21 09-17-13 09:34 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by RichC2 (Post 11837463)
Steam Box = Laptop or HTPC with an Xbox 360 controller plugged into your TV. Done.

Yeah, no. Not in my house anyway.

flashburn 09-17-13 09:41 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by chuckd21 (Post 11837990)
Yeah, no. Not in my house anyway.

Just curious, why not an HTPC? Just because it's still not a "console"?

chuckd21 09-17-13 09:42 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by flashburn (Post 11838004)
Just curious, why not an HTPC? Just because it's still not a "console"?

Because I'm not dealing with drivers and graphics cards and all the stuff that comes with building your own rig. If I'm going to ever be a "PC gamer" it'll be on a box someone else makes that was made to do what I want it to do.

RichC2 09-17-13 09:47 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
That's why I said laptop first, they're just pricey with decent video cards.

Drivers and Graphics Cards are non-issues these days, the bigger problem is just having the occasional pop-up window for configuration purposes before a game loads.

fumanstan 09-17-13 09:56 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
I would have guessed any Linux/OpenGL stuff started by not having to deal with Windows and licensing for something like this, and the performance benefit came after working on it. I still don't have much confidence in Linux gaming any time soon.

fumanstan 09-20-13 11:32 AM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
Teaser site is up that counts to Monday.

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

Matthew Chmiel 09-21-13 01:34 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by fumanstan (Post 11838029)
I would have guessed any Linux/OpenGL stuff started by not having to deal with Windows and licensing for something like this, and the performance benefit came after working on it. I still don't have much confidence in Linux gaming any time soon.

Here's the biggest difference why they'll be able to succeed on Linux whereas they failed on the Mac.

When Steam games started getting launched on the Mac, they were built specifically for 10.6 and OpenGL 3.0. The problem being video cards at that time were built with OpenGL 3.2 and higher and the Mac OS simply didn't support it. 10.9 will be the first Mac OS to fully support OpenGL 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2. As Lion and Mountain Lion came out, Steam never updated any of their drivers or games to support the (limited) functionality that 10.7 and 10.8 had supported for 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, and 4.0. As it stands, most of the Steam games on the Mac OS are broken and aren't getting fixed in the future.

With Linux, you don't run into this issue. It's open source. With Valve, they can build a custom OS with all of the specific OpenGL support they need with the graphics cards they utilize.

Newell has gone on the record in the past that there should be a PC industry "standard" for video games. If they build and optimize hardware and software for both consumers and developers, publishers might be already willing to jump on board. Most of the AAA publishers build versions of their game for multiple platforms. If it takes a month for Planetside 2 to convert from PC architecture to the PS4, I see a similar time frame to take your Windows/DirectX code to Linux/OpenGL.

fumanstan 09-21-13 03:43 PM

Yes, Macs are a waste of gaming space.

dugan 09-21-13 03:54 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel (Post 11843017)
With Linux, you don't run into this issue. It's open source.

NVidia's Linux drivers are not open source. It would be interesting to see if Valve decides to use NVidia hardware.

Matthew Chmiel 09-21-13 04:36 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 

Originally Posted by dugan (Post 11843121)
NVidia's Linux drivers are not open source. It would be interesting to see if Valve decides to use NVidia hardware.

AMD has an announcement at the end of this month, which was one of the rumors surrounding the Xbox One.

Again, stranger things have happened.

chuckd21 09-21-13 05:40 PM

re: Steam Machine - coming 2026
 
There's an AMD announcement involving the Xbox One?


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