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How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

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View Poll Results: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?
DVD again (multiple discs FTW!)
3
6.25%
Download and/or Streaming (The future now!)
3
6.25%
Blu-ray (We are Sony's friends)
24
50.00%
MS proprietary format (HD-DVD is coming back!)
14
29.17%
Other
4
8.33%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Old 12-01-11, 08:33 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Knowing Microsoft though, Blu-ray playback will only be available via Gold Membership.
Old 12-01-11, 09:03 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
Fuck it - let's go back to cartridges. I miss blowing on games. Sometimes I blow on my discs when I'm feeling nostalgic.
I still absentmindedly do that with discs. I justify it by thinking I'm removing any stray dust that may have landed on the data side.
Old 12-01-11, 09:17 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

blu ray

its a huge consortium which Microsoft is a part of, it's not Sony. i think the issue back in 2005 was that you needed a really fast CPU (at the time) to play the content and the drives were expensive. 2012 smartphones are more than fast enough to play the content and the drives are dirt cheap

sony screwed up by playing on specs and a lot of people like me bought a PS3 just for the blu ray player and streaming functionality and it's a loss for sony.
Old 12-01-11, 09:59 AM
  #29  
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Everyone just keep in mind that "Sony" isn't all one big company. There are lots of smaller companies and divisions within, and the Blu-ray component isn't the same as the gaming one.

Sony makes computers that run Windows. Microsoft makes software that supports Blu-ray drives. So it's not like Microsoft paying for the Blu-ray tech means that money will fund the PS4.
Old 12-01-11, 10:13 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

the better question...what if the 360 had used HD dvd right from the start? What if there was near 60 million HD players in the market...would the Blu-ray/HD fight still be on?
Old 12-01-11, 10:45 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

With the HD-DVD failure a couple years back, I don’t see Microsoft trying out another format anytime soon. I think it’s pretty much a guarantee that they are going to go the Blu route with the next system. It already has solid foundation with developers and consumers and offers plenty of capacity. And like others have said, I don’t see any of the companies going the digital download only route anytime soon either. Especially now with many of the providers putting monthly caps and charging for data overages.
Old 12-01-11, 11:12 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

They'll go Blu-ray, hopefully it's faster than that slow POS in the PS3.
Old 12-01-11, 11:29 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by mattysemo247 View Post
With the HD-DVD failure a couple years back, I donít see Microsoft trying out another format anytime soon. I think itís pretty much a guarantee that they are going to go the Blu route with the next system. It already has solid foundation with developers and consumers and offers plenty of capacity. And like others have said, I donít see any of the companies going the digital download only route anytime soon either. Especially now with many of the providers putting monthly caps and charging for data overages.
if MS goes download only don't expect gamestop to carry it. and i bet best buy would have some reservations about selling it as well
Old 12-01-11, 11:30 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
They'll go Blu-ray, hopefully it's faster than that slow POS in the PS3.
Are there any fast blu-ray players right now? I honestly don't know.
Old 12-01-11, 11:38 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by foxdvd View Post
the better question...what if the 360 had used HD dvd right from the start? What if there was near 60 million HD players in the market...would the Blu-ray/HD fight still be on?
Good question. I bet Microsoft is kicking themselves about it.
Old 12-01-11, 11:45 AM
  #36  
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by foxdvd View Post
the better question...what if the 360 had used HD dvd right from the start? What if there was near 60 million HD players in the market...would the Blu-ray/HD fight still be on?
Well, HD DVD didn't come out until April/May 2006, which was after the 360 was released (Nov 2005). BUT, if Microsoft had waited, installed HD DVD in the 360 from the get-go... yeah... I imagine that fight would still be raging on, as the user-base for each format would have been more equal. It might have been enough to make Blu-ray dead in the water... but we'll never know. The BEST thing about HD DVD was that it was 100% region free.

Anyway, MS will have Blu-ray on the next console for all the reasons stated by others (it's not just Sony's product, it's cheap/easy to implement now, 10+ gb downloads only work for a small fraction of the entire market, etc. etc.).
Old 12-01-11, 01:47 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Blu-ray is the logical option.

However, in tech companies, sometimes, the logical, smart, option is not the one chosen. Microsoft, and several other entertainment companies think that Blu-ray movies are a niche product. With the success of Netflix and in a lower scale iTunes (movies), they think digital download/streaming is going to be, or is, the most popular option. So Blu-ray loses that one benefit.

So, although I also hope for blu-ray, I don't think Microsoft is going that way for the next Xbox.
Old 12-01-11, 03:04 PM
  #38  
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Absolutely no way they go streaming or digital download. There are some (shocker) that don't have broadband or bandwidth to d/l massive games. Microsoft would be excluding a good portion of the market that use DSL or have no internet at all.
Old 12-01-11, 03:11 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I think download-only is a ways off still, since not everyone who owns a console has a powerful enough broadband connection to download a 50GB game, and the bullshit data caps that many ISPs have implemented will hinder some gamers' ability to download to their heart's content. I also don't see them going with flash drives, as that seems like it could open up piracy to whole new levels (and flash drives are considerably more expensive than discs).

Blu-ray makes the most sense on paper, but Microsoft won't want to give a chunk of every sale to their competition. I also don't see them resurrecting HD-DVD as-is, since those discs topped out at 30GB if memory serves and I've read that 100GB+ Blu-rays are on the horizon.

I think they'll end up going with some new, proprietary, high-capacity disc, possibly an extension of the HD-DVD disc spec in order to have something that can compete more directly with the capacity of Blu-ray without having to pay Sony a dime.
Old 12-01-11, 03:59 PM
  #40  
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by FatTony View Post
Blu-ray makes the most sense on paper, but Microsoft won't want to give a chunk of every sale to their competition. I also don't see them resurrecting HD-DVD as-is, since those discs topped out at 30GB if memory serves and I've read that 100GB+ Blu-rays are on the horizon.
Shortly before Warner opted for Blu-ray (they previously released on both formats), The HD DVD group had announced that they had developed 3-layer discs that could hold up to 51GB that supposedly would have worked with all existing HD DVD players. Chances are, the yield was extremely low, though, as they had a hard enough time with flipper discs and dual-layer HD DVDs (to be fair, Blu-ray had low yields for BD-50s at the time, too). Had they survived, the reliability would only have gotten better.

Man... I wish someone involved would write a good book about that format war. I'd love to hear about the conversations going on at Warner in the week leading up to their announcement to ditch HD DVD. The rumor at the time was that they were planning to drop Blu-ray (like Paramount did only a couple months earlier), but flip-flopped in the last 24 hours.
Old 12-01-11, 04:12 PM
  #41  
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post
Well, HD DVD didn't come out until April/May 2006, which was after the 360 was released (Nov 2005). BUT, if Microsoft had waited, installed HD DVD in the 360 from the get-go... yeah... I imagine that fight would still be raging on, as the user-base for each format would have been more equal. It might have been enough to make Blu-ray dead in the water... but we'll never know. The BEST thing about HD DVD was that it was 100% region free.

Anyway, MS will have Blu-ray on the next console for all the reasons stated by others (it's not just Sony's product, it's cheap/easy to implement now, 10+ gb downloads only work for a small fraction of the entire market, etc. etc.).
While it can't be argued that the 360 would have been better with an hd drive if not just for the space for games, I doubt there would still be a fight. Regardless of who won, someone would have by now. Studios would not have liked making multiple hd formats for a long time. It would have likely been too costly and they would have gone to one or the other by now. Typically when 2 formats hit that use the same type of tech, one wins out and the other is mildly supported. IE Superbits, SACD and so on. I'm not saying blu-ray would have won, but one of them would have by now.

I also believe that had hd-dvd won, then it would have some kind of region encoding by now also. I don't believe blu-ray had any at first either, but the studios can put it on there if they choose. I could be wrong though

I'm thinking proprietary format also, but much like the GDROM on dreamcast, just use it for games and not try to market it as any other type of media disc.
Old 12-01-11, 04:46 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by glassdragon View Post
While it can't be argued that the 360 would have been better with an hd drive if not just for the space for games, I doubt there would still be a fight. Regardless of who won, someone would have by now. Studios would not have liked making multiple hd formats for a long time. It would have likely been too costly and they would have gone to one or the other by now. Typically when 2 formats hit that use the same type of tech, one wins out and the other is mildly supported. IE Superbits, SACD and so on. I'm not saying blu-ray would have won, but one of them would have by now.
I can believe this. Blu-ray is having enough trouble gaining a foothold in a going-away-from-optical-media world; an ongoing format war would have made customer commitment even worse.

Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post
Man... I wish someone involved would write a good book about that format war. I'd love to hear about the conversations going on at Warner in the week leading up to their announcement to ditch HD DVD. The rumor at the time was that they were planning to drop Blu-ray (like Paramount did only a couple months earlier), but flip-flopped in the last 24 hours.
I would totally read that book.
Old 12-01-11, 07:57 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I don't see it being anything but bluray. MS doesn't give a crap where those minuscule royalties go, sony doesn't give a crap where they come from as long as they come. They aren't a bunch of grudge-holding teens with HDDVD/BRD rivalries still bussing around in their heads. They both are going to have consoles that sell, they both license technology to each other in other markets. Bluray is the only super high capacity format that can has infrastructure for high-volume production. I don't think MS wants to build factories and handle it themselves. BR would allow it's publishers to easily manufacture discs using existing factories.

MS will try to push more downloads, but try downloading the next COD:MW on launch day. It would be a disaster that kills downloads as a distribution method for buyers. I myself have been fucked 2-3 times already by Xbox downloads that took forever or had issues. I'll never go for a large title that i want at launch.
Old 12-01-11, 09:04 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by mmconhea

MS will try to push more downloads, but try downloading the next COD:MW on launch day. It would be a disaster that kills downloads as a distribution method for buyers. I myself have been fucked 2-3 times already by Xbox downloads that took forever or had issues. I'll never go for a large title that i want at launch.
Not if they do what Steam does. About a week before a new game launches you can pre load the full game and when midnight hits, the game decrypts and unlocks.
Old 12-06-11, 03:37 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post
Shortly before Warner opted for Blu-ray (they previously released on both formats), The HD DVD group had announced that they had developed 3-layer discs that could hold up to 51GB that supposedly would have worked with all existing HD DVD players. Chances are, the yield was extremely low, though, as they had a hard enough time with flipper discs and dual-layer HD DVDs (to be fair, Blu-ray had low yields for BD-50s at the time, too). Had they survived, the reliability would only have gotten better.

Man... I wish someone involved would write a good book about that format war. I'd love to hear about the conversations going on at Warner in the week leading up to their announcement to ditch HD DVD. The rumor at the time was that they were planning to drop Blu-ray (like Paramount did only a couple months earlier), but flip-flopped in the last 24 hours.
what were the sales numbers? i forgot who dropped HD-DVD first and started the cascade of the other studios but i'm sure it had 100% to do with sales
Old 12-06-11, 04:15 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I thought it was Toshiba.
Old 12-06-11, 05:44 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

I'm not sure what royalties are now, but in 2009, it was $9.50 for a Blu-ray player and 11 cents for a read-only Blu-ray disc, with Sony getting less than 30% of that. It wouldn't surprise me if royalties have gone down since then. I don't think MS would care about that much going to Sony.
Old 12-07-11, 01:03 AM
  #48  
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
what were the sales numbers? i forgot who dropped HD-DVD first and started the cascade of the other studios but i'm sure it had 100% to do with sales
tl;dr version: Paramount dropped Blu-ray. Warner dropped HD DVD. Retailers followed Warner. Then Toshiba/MS gave up.

I was following the 'war' closely at the time. I only remember it as a consumer, as I had no insider knowledge or anything like that.
Spoiler:

From what I recall... people (myself included) argued that HD DVD owners were buying more titles per person, but since they were immensely overshadowed by the sheer number of Blu-ray owners, HD DVD didn't have a single week at the top after the launch of the PS3. The only week where there was a chance was the week Transformers was released on HD DVD only. If I recall correctly, Transformers had more copies sold than any other HD DVD or Blu-ray title at the time, but it was still greatly outsold by the massive 2 for 1 sale that pretty much every Blu-ray-only studio "coincidentally" put on that week.

As for who dropped HD DVD first... it was Warner. At launch, Universal was the only studio exclusive to HD DVD. Warner and Paramount were releasing on both formats, but both seemed to favour HD DVD as there were a number of HD DVD exclusives released by both studios. Sony, Disney, Fox, and Lion's Gate were all Blu-ray exclusive from the get-go.

While Warner used identical video encodes for both formats, Paramount was doing two separate encodes for every release, trying to utilize each format to the best of their abilities. There were a ton of debates on which was "superior," and being on the side of HD DVD, my memory tells me the HD DVD encodes by Paramount were better (but really, they were practically identical).

Then, out of nowhere, Paramount announced that they were dropping Blu-ray. Not only that, but the titles they were planning to release as early as the following Tuesday were all being pulled from retailers. Some fans managed to snag copies of Blades of Glory on Blu-ray. Unfortunately, it was pretty clear that the HD DVD group paid Paramount a hefty sum for the exclusivity. Lots of bad press.

HD DVD players became a hot item on Black Friday in 2007 and on Boxing Day in Canada. While I convinced both of my brothers to buy the $99 HD-A3, I even knew a few people who went that route as well. We all figured that, with Microsoft's support, things could only get better for the format.

Toshiba and Microsoft supposedly had a big AWESOME event for the big electronics show in January 2008 (CES, if memory serves). This is when most people expected Warner to announce that they, too, were dropping Blu-ray. The day before that announcement, Warner came out and said they were dropping HD DVD and going Blu-ray exclusive, citing sales and future growth as the reason (no one REALLY wanted a format war). Based on the fact that they had done a number of exclusives for HD DVD, it was quite a shock. Then retailers like Wal-mart said they were doing the same. Toshiba and MS cancelled their big CES event. Then, days later, Toshiba announced that they were dropping HD DVD. Since Toshiba was the only real manufacturer of standalone players (there was an LG model that was dual-format, but wouldn't play some HD DVD menus...), that was the true end. Paramount and Universal started releasing on Blu-ray within months.

To Warner's credit, they DID offer the HD2Blu program where you could send them your HD DVD covers (as proof of purchase) and they'd send you the equivalent Blu-ray for only $5. Paramount and Universal never bothered to throw HD DVD buyers a bone like that.


But back on topic ... the dust has settled... Toshiba has Blu-ray players... and MS will support Blu-ray in the next XBOX. They'd be dumb not to.
Old 12-07-11, 09:03 AM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

and i hope the next x-box will also play 360 games. i'll dump my PS3 and 360 and get the new one on launch day before resale values really start to plummet
Old 12-07-11, 04:19 PM
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Re: How do you think Microsoft is going to solve the media/storage issue?

Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post
My problems with download-only are:
- highly unlikely that pricing would be any better. It's hard to justify $60 for a NEW game, let alone a new downloadable-only game.
I think you are right, we won't immediately see the benefits, if ever, of cheaper distribution costs. They will keep the pricing the same as retail while the transition occurs, so at the end the starting price will still remain the standard. MP3 albums are cheaper than CD's were though (retail not sale pricing), but the music industry was also competing against free piracy pricing as well to a greater extent..

Originally Posted by orangecrush View Post
A couple of thoughts.

1. Digital download only isn't going to happen for a very long time. The trend in ISP's is bandwith limits. How would you like to hit your limit with one retail download game. Not to mention all the people who live in the hills and can't even download patches for Skyrim and whatnot. The majority of the console game buying public doesn't buy digital games on the console.

2. Those who like getting games for cheap better pray every day that phsyical games don't go away. Digital only = expensive for a lot longer than physical disks + no possibility of selling when you are done w/ a game.
I agree with #1, I don't think the console market is 100% ready for download only games, although I don't they will make it an all or nothing thing. They will just focus much more heavily on downloadable games than they did last generation, and the transition will happen naturally. PC publishers didn't just abandon retail for downloadable games, but the transition is happening anyways.

2. Download only isn't the problem with pricing. If your perspective is only console downloadable titles then you might get that impression, but that's a very narrow view of downloadable pricing. The problem with downloadable pricing on consoles is that you are dealing with a closed platform where pricing is dictated by a very rigid platform holder. Once you've chosen a platform your access to downloadable titles is restricted to the platform holder, and MS and Sony (more Microsoft) have shown themselves to be very rigid on pricing models. And I think downloadable titles are still an afterthought this generation, they don't focus pricing and marketing on downloadable titles. The PC, an open platform, doesn't have this pricing problem, have you seen the sales from Steam, D2D, greenmangaming, Amazon, Impulse, Gamersgate, GOG, etc.? Downloadable only does not necessarily mean more expensive. Even on a closed platform like the iphone, where the platform holder doesn't exert such rigid pricing on the games, you see much better pricing for downloadable content.

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