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What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

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I'm buying a Kinect for the fake cuddly anim er... Kinectimals.
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I'm buying the Move because I'd love a Californication game.
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Not buying either.
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Waiting for a price drop on both.
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I'm rich biatch. I'm getting both.
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What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

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Old 08-18-10, 07:01 PM
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What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

It's a tossup for me. I don't know if either is compelling enough, but leaning towards Kinect for the integration with the dashboard although it'll be after it drops to $99 bucks.

Kinect

Pros:
  • Doesn't require any extra controllers
  • Different enough from Wii to get people to into it
  • Cool integration with other Xbox apps (dashboard, Zune, etc.)

Cons:
  • Expensive
  • Doesn't support 4 players
  • Killer app? Don't know if Dance Central qualifies
  • Don't know if it works properly

PlayStation Move

Pros:
  • Game prices seem to be $10 bucks cheaper @ $39.99
  • Buttons, didn't they great Kevin Butler say that buttons are important. Seriously, I think buttons will be useful. I don't know how Kinect is going to get past this in certain games.
  • Basically a PSThWii (clever, right?) which is what a lot of people want - (A Wii with better graphics)
  • Compatible with some existing games: LBP, Tiger Woods, RE5, Heavy Rain, MAG (Thanks Decker!)

Cons:
  • More expensive than Kinect - For the full setup, requires an Pseye, NavController, and Wand. 2nd set of Wand and NavController for second player.
  • Doesn't support 4 players.
  • Killer app? Sorcery perhaps.
  • Don't know if it works, demos so far have not been completely favorable

Am I missing anything?

Last edited by jiggawhat; 08-18-10 at 07:22 PM.
Old 08-18-10, 07:15 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Am I missing anything?
Yeah, you're missing a biggie : The Move will be compatible with several games people may already have (LBP, Tiger Woods 11, Heavy Rain, MAG). That's a big selling point to me, I have the option of playing some of these games traditionally or with the new controller.
Old 08-18-10, 07:18 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Decker
Yeah, you're missing a biggie : The Move will be compatible with several games people may already have (LBP, Tiger Woods 11, Heavy Rain, MAG). That's a big selling point to me, I have the option of playing some of these games traditionally or with the new controller.
I'm interested in the Move, but I really don't see how motion controls will make me want to play Heavy Rain again (especially given the fact that I've already platinumed it and gotten all the endings for the Taxidermist DLC). In fact, I just traded it in since they annouced future DLC is pretty much scrapped in favor of Move integration.
Old 08-18-10, 07:26 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Whether you want to play it again or not, it almost certainly will make the game play better than the original version. Besides, the fact is that for me, I could buy just a $49.99 controller and play a few of my games with motion control, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than the Kinect will be able to deliver.

BTW : I asked the Kmart guy on CAG and he confirmed some sort of a deal for the Move at launch next month.
Old 08-18-10, 08:09 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by jiggawhat
Cons:[LIST][*]More expensive than Kinect - For the full setup, requires an Pseye, NavController, and Wand. 2nd set of Wand and NavController for second player.

Some games require 2 wands PER player, like The Fight. That's 4 wands for a 2 player game...crazy.
Old 08-18-10, 08:23 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Decker
I could buy just a $49.99 controller and play a few of my games with motion control, which is a hell of a lot cheaper than the Kinect will be able to deliver.
Don't you have to buy a camera too?
Old 08-18-10, 08:29 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Move will be a greater success. There's this swing towards everything PS3 right now (and not just in this forum either).
Old 08-18-10, 08:55 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

I don't like either one of them, but move will be a success and kinect will do good in the beginning but fail in the long run.
Old 08-18-10, 09:01 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Since I took an immediate dislike to the Wii's control interface I can't say that I'm too excited about either but I might give Kinect a shot after a price drop since it doesn't require any extraneous controllers.
Old 08-18-10, 09:06 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Don't you have to buy a camera too?
No. Being the perpetual consumer sucker that I am, I already own the up-to-now worthless PSEye.
Old 08-18-10, 09:07 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by chuckd21
Move will be a greater success. There's this swing towards everything PS3 right now (and not just in this forum either).
Really? Haven't all the "hardcore" gamers made their mind up on motion based on the Wii? Is a Z-axis really going to change that?

Like Decker said, Move may survive on Wii ports, party games and games like Tiger Woods, but for core games it will be an utter failure. Note, I said survive and not thrive. Niche product at best.

Kinect will sell well the first few weeks and be an utter failure once word of mouth gets out about how shoddy it works. It will be on the clearance rack for under $50 before E3 next year and MS will not even mention it's existence at next year's show.
Old 08-18-10, 11:08 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Honestly, I will probably only consider the Move, but I couldn't resist any choice that includes "I'm rich biatch!"
Old 08-18-10, 11:09 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Your poll choices do not reflect the question asked by the thread title....

Regardless, I don't think either will be a "success", and I think that $150 price point by MS will mean Kinect will be the bigger failure of the two.....
Old 08-18-10, 11:50 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by WMAangel
Your poll choices do not reflect the question asked by the thread title....

Regardless, I don't think either will be a "success", and I think that $150 price point by MS will mean Kinect will be the bigger failure of the two.....
It wasn't ment to. I agree i think the price is going to quickly scare many people away plus the economy seems to be tanking again.
Old 08-18-10, 11:52 PM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Well, I don't like the Kinect because I don't like the idea of taking the controller out of my hands. I believe that part of the fun of gaming is interacting with a real object, and something would be missing if there's no controller.

As for the Move, I'm interested to see what the development will be like. Will games be designed for the device, or will they try to do games with both traditional and Move control? Granted, they're doing the latter now, but I believe it's just to hedge their bets in case the device flops. If they try to make games that work with both, will the Move actually enhance the game, or will you be put at a disadvantage by using the Move instead of a standard controller? Or if you are, will there be an added fun factor that makes up for that? It remains to be seen.

I think the best course would be to design games specifically for the Move, rather than trying to do games that work with both. However, it could be a catch-22 problem. Developers may not want to commit to Move-only games because it limits the market and they don't know if the device will be successful. But on the other hand, it won't be a success if there aren't good games that demand it. By catering to both, it could turn out to be another niche peripheral like an arcade stick or a steering wheel; since they're aren't required, most don't bother to get them. Gamers may shrug and ask why they should buy a Move when their trusty Dual Shock works just as well.

This was not an issue for the Wii, because everyone who bought the system got the motion controls, so of course the games were designed for them. With the Kinect and the Move, they are positioned as optional peripherals, and that may be their undoing.
Old 08-19-10, 01:17 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Joystiq previews The Fight:


Spoiler:
Preview: The Fight

by Kyle Orland on Aug 18th 2010 8:20PM



Sony had a new, roughly 60% complete build of The Fight on hand at a pre-Gamescom press event, and I have to say, my experience with the game couldn't have been more different from the one Chris Buffa had a few months ago (when the game still had its "Lights Out" subtitle). For one, I found the artificial intelligence to be at least competitive, if not overly hard. My computerized opponent -- a thin, bouncy, tattooed Asian gangster -- came at me constantly, using quick jabs to take advantage if I opened myself up with too many attacks and not enough guarding. The player who went before me actually lost to his computer opponent, a beefy black man in a wifebeater who countered an endless series of high, straight punches with some accurate low body blows.

For another, I didn't notice any discernible lag between my real-life motions and the punches on screen. That's not to say there wasn't any lag -- in fact, there probably was -- but just that it wasn't easily discernible in the heat of the battle. I didn't find myself making a punching motion and then waiting for a second to see if the game would recognize it as a punch or anything like that. On the contrary, the game seemed pretty good about moving my on-screen fighter's arm almost immediately when I moved my own.

<object classid="" width="437" height="265" id="viddler"><param name="movie" value="http://www.viddler.com/simple_on_site/d2e2ddda" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashvars" value="fake=1"/><embed src="http://www.viddler.com/simple_on_site/d2e2ddda" width="437" height="265" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always" allowFullScreen="true" flashvars="fake=1" name="viddler" ></embed></object>

It's hard to understate the importance of the game's accurate punch tracking. I started out my demo just stretching my arms all around me and marveling at the range of motion my on-screen fighter could mimic. After that I tried every type of punch I could think of, from quick high jabs to low crosses, slow powerful uppercuts to hand-over-hand punching bag whirligigs, and the game handled them all accurately and without a complaint. After a few minutes I got brave enough to try some simple combinations -- a few short right jabs followed by a left hook seemed to really catch my opponent off guard. I never felt nearly this level of precision with Wii boxing simulations like those in Wii Sports or Punch Out!

In fact, my short session with The Fight felt a lot like the future we were promised when the Wii remote was first introduced years ago -- a new way of playing where the game actually senses your movements, rather then just sensing any old controller movement. I have no idea if the final game will have enough depth to stand up to repeated play, but the sheer "gee whiz" impact of that first play session is going to stay with me for quite a while.


It actually sounds like this is the sort of game we'd expect the Wii could make but it never really did.

Last edited by Decker; 08-19-10 at 01:25 AM.
Old 08-19-10, 04:20 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

I said neither but if I had to go for one of the motion control solutions I think it would be Move. The only reason being that I miss light gun games and the PS3/Move combination seems the best solution for now. HD graphics plus a controller that can be used like a gun.
Old 08-19-10, 07:51 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Move for Tiger Woods is about the only thing that sounds remotely interesting. I'd rather one of them just came out with a great Golden Tee game with track ball.

IF, the Kinect actually works smoothly it could have some potential, but I just don't see it being much less awkward than the current crappy camera games.
Old 08-19-10, 09:01 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Has anyone tried a Kinect demo stand? I thought they were supposed to be going up at Macy's or something.
Old 08-19-10, 09:11 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Chris_D
I said neither but if I had to go for one of the motion control solutions I think it would be Move. The only reason being that I miss light gun games and the PS3/Move combination seems the best solution for now. HD graphics plus a controller that can be used like a gun.
Destructiod's Impressions of Time Crisis : Razing Storm on PS Move

Spoiler:

Impressions: Time Crisis: Razing Storm on PS Move
7:00 PM on 07.30.2010 | Samit Sarkar



Light gun games haven't quite gone the way of the dodo, but I've generally considered them to only be worth playing for a few minutes at an arcade (before I get tired of them). But with the launch of PlayStation Move this September, they may be poised for a comeback. Namco Bandai is doing their part, packaging ports of the arcade versions of three light gun games -- Time Crisis: Razing Storm, Time Crisis 4 (2007), and Deadstorm Pirates -- and releasing the bundle as Time Crisis: Razing Storm in North America this fall.

I got to check out Razing Storm on Move at a Sony press event in New York last week. I played by myself for a while, and then tried out same-screen co-op with a Namco Bandai representative. I can confirm that it is an on-rails light gun game where you shoot many, many people and robots. But I was surprised by how much I actually enjoyed it, and I think that the amount of fun I had was tied to PlayStation Move.



If you're not pressing any buttons, you'll be behind an impenetrable metal shield. Holding the Move button will have you pop out from behind the shield, ready to fire with the trigger. Instead of "firing" off the screen to reload, you'll automatically do so when you re-enter cover. Razing Storm is the first Time Crisis game with destructible environments, and while it isn't exactly Red Faction: Guerrilla-level destructibility, it's still fun to take out some scaffolding and watch the enemies who were standing on it collapse in a heap on the floor. A second player can hop in at any time, and that brings in the wonderful cooperative-yet-competitive element of "my friend and I are kicking ass together, but I'm going to kick more ass than him."

Move matters here because of its accuracy, the benefits of which were palpable. I've often found the targeting in light gun games to be finicky, but I had no trouble racking up headshots in Razing Storm. That was Arcade Mode, but Razing Storm also includes a single-player Story Mode that plays like an FPS -- you have freedom of movement around the stages. Here, you'll play with the Move Navigation Controller in your left hand and the wand in your right; flicking the wand upward (i.e., away from the screen) will put you into cover. (I didn't get a chance to see the Story Mode.) You'll also use the FPS controls in the eight-player Online Battle Mode, which features shooter standards such as deathmatch.



All three games in the bundle will be playable with PlayStation Move (and the optional Move Shooting Attachment), the Guncon 3 (which came with the PS3 version of Time Crisis 4), or a regular PlayStation 3 controller. Time Crisis 4 and Deadstorm Pirates will feature online leaderboards, although I presume you'll be stuck with using your PSN name instead of a clever arcade-cabinet standby such as "ASS" or "FUK." Pricing is yet to be determined, but the bundle will be available right around the launch of PlayStation Move. Depending on the cost, it could be worth picking up for some mindless shooting fun.
Old 08-19-10, 09:14 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

I won't be buying either one, unless they are priced at $50 or so and include a game (a full game, not a tech demo like Wii Sports).
Old 08-19-10, 09:19 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Like Decker said, Move may survive on Wii ports, party games and games like Tiger Woods, but for core games it will be an utter failure. Note, I said survive and not thrive. Niche product at best.

Kinect will sell well the first few weeks and be an utter failure once word of mouth gets out about how shoddy it works. It will be on the clearance rack for under $50 before E3 next year and MS will not even mention it's existence at next year's show.
I agree with all of this.
Old 08-19-10, 09:52 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

I may get Move, since I already have the PS3Eye or whatever name the camera is called, and I can use the PS3 controller, so I only need the the wand, and that costs $50, right?

Wait, it doesn't include a game? Even a wii sports clone? Lame! I guess I'll have to wait then.
Old 08-19-10, 10:01 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Raul3
I may get Move, since I already have the PS3Eye or whatever name the camera is called, and I can use the PS3 controller, so I only need the the wand, and that costs $50, right?

Wait, it doesn't include a game? Even a wii sports clone? Lame! I guess I'll have to wait then.
You expected a controller + game for $50? Really?

The controller + eye + Sports Champions game are bundled together for $100. I'm hoping that I'll find that game cheap on ebay in a few months from people who bought the bundle then didn't enjoy the game.
Too bad there wasn't a Move + Nav or Double Move bundle that came with a game. Have my that whatever deal Kmart has up their sleeve for the Move will be fairly good.

In answer to your other question : Yes, if yo already have the Eye, all you need is the Move. The nav is more comfortable but you can use a controller for movement and if you have a sixaxis it's not that uncomfortable to hold sideways with one hand.
Old 08-19-10, 10:09 AM
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Re: What wll be the bigger failure/success? Move or Kinect?

Originally Posted by Decker
You expected a controller + game for $50? Really?

Well, that worked for Wii Play. And I wasn't expecting a full game, I was looking for something like Wii Sports or Wii Play. I mean, they are going after the casual gamer, they should be looking at casual prices.


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