mr_jbloggs

Bottom line is that MS is not going to cut the hand that feeds it.

Michael Corvin

Bungie can store your last 20 full matches on their servers, why not MS? That is 20 potentially full 10 minute rounds. That's video as well. Storing just audio for say, the last 5 rounds would be significantly smaller. It all gets dumped and resused so it's not like there would be a huge influx of storage past the initial investment / R&D.

Bottom line is that with the MS having the #1 movie service out there, they are going to have to clean up their service and perception if they want to evolve into something more than just targeting the hardcore crowd. That all starts with getting rid of the asshats.

lordwow

Ignore/Report. End of problem.

lordzeppelin

And I didn't say you should have to put up with it...but it's not enough to be able to quickly mute/ignore/report as it already stands? And how often does it happen? In a night of, say, 4 hours of gaming on CoD4 or Halo or Gears, I probably have run into maybe 1 person that was being truly abusive rather than just annoying. And it may be once a week. Plus you're more likely to run into it by just playing randomly.

It just seems like an overreaction for isolated incidents. That's all I'm saying. I've been called a fair share of whatever on there, and before that on the PC on quake and unreal and warcraft and diablo years ago, and even aol chatrooms in the mid90s. I rarely pay attention to it.

pinata242

Going back to one of Sessler's points, this is a portion of gamers that shed more negative light in the public eye. It is something that needs to stop and is completely unacceptable. You can't defend gamers as a group from the media and public scapegoating as social deviants/degenerates if your next breath is spent expressing your own suckitude by hurling socially unacceptable and downright hateful speech.

Truth is these people only act like that under the protection of anonymity. If you were playing paintball with these same people or a pickup game of basketball at the local park, you wouldn't hear this shit.

Spiderbite

Must be me but I just don't run into it that much.

And let's be completely honest. Racist and homosexual jokes and slurs can be funny. If they weren't, people like Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, and other comedians would be out of a job.

If I do run into someone that is extremely obnoxious, I mute the fucker. For good. That's what the option is there for, correct? Why doesn't Adam Sessler mention that option? Guess he wants to make a big to-do without actually giving solutions.

And Sessler is gay, right?

lordzeppelin

I had to mute this fuck Spiderbitch73 or some shit the other night. The guy thought he was a fucking comedian...

pinata242

This is not a valid comparison. Those comedians aren't directing those jokes and slurs at any person, but in the proverbial sense. Let's not even get into the double-standard of it all or Mr. Garrison being able to say "***" on South Park because "he is one". However, these gamers are directly attacking individual people, intentionally or not.

I don't know how to say this accurately, but here goes. Sessler did seem to be "gay" in that rant. I SAID I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY IT. I never thought about it before, but the way he was talking, he was sure shaken up so maybe he is...

So, in that regard, he (read: a gamer with an outlet to vent where people will notice) took direct personal offense to a random user's comments. Whether he is gay or not is irrelevant, though. As a human, his sensibilities were offended and he is voicing his disgust. Rightfully so.

Deftones

He's gotta be gay after a rant like that.

While I agree with him, I don't personally recall any times where people said stuff that bothered me. Might just be that I usually play with a ton of people on my friend's list, not with random strangers. Seriously, though. It's just a word. Yeah, there's probably meaning behind it, but it's still just a word.

PopcornTreeCt

It's not overrated. It seems to me that it's everyone not on my friends list. I just took away the mic option and don't listen to anyone anymore.

Michael Corvin

Precisely. Like I said above, if MS expects the 360 division to grow beyond the hardcore this is an issue that will have to be addressed. It doesn't matter if it only happens in one game per week, that is enough for Live to have garnered the stigma it has. Muting, feedback and other measures are merely a stop-gap that hardcore gamers don't have a problem with. If a casual gamer ends up in a match with one of these people, that's all she wrote for that customer. MS is going to have to get tougher and break out the banhammer to overcome this stigma.

However I don't think this will be addressed until the next iteration of Live on the next system.

FatTony

Fun story: A friend and I were walking to a bar the other night and a couple of guys called us f****ts in passing. Completely unprovoked (balls were nowhere near my mouth at the time). I just laughed it off, but later found out that just the previous night, a mere block away, another couple of guys had actually been jumped by a car full of guys that thought they were too effeminate. This is in Seattle. Not exactly a bastion of conservative hate-mongers.

So for all of you saying “just mute/ignore them,” I think that’s setting a dangerous precedent whereby these kids grow up thinking it’s ok for them to call others f****ts in such a mean-spirited manner. People are still assaulted and murdered for even appearing to be gay. For Microsoft, who has a really solid track record of supporting LGBT rights, to just look the other way on this matter is pretty unacceptable. And that's without even mentioning the racial epithets.

Sessler makes a lot of great points in that video. If gamers want to be taken seriously (and Microsoft as a content provider, for that matter), simply ignoring the trolls isn't enough. We have to take a more active role in telling them that their vile attitudes won't be tolerated, and the only way to get that point through their thick skulls is if there's consequences for their negativity. A "three strikes = ban" approach is 100% appropriate if you ask me (though if it were up to me, it'd be one strike).

pinata242

Whatever, I know for a fact that your mouth is never more than 3 or 3.5 feet away from balls at any given time. ***.

mhg83

I never said that there was just one reason for leaving live. in post #1 I said bigots was one of the reasons why I stopped going on Live.

In no way am i trying to slam Live. I think its a good service and the best one out there. Its the racist, homophobic and sexist ones I'm slamming.

GreenMonkey

I just only play with people from my friends list these days. I play Gears almost on a nightly basis with a bunch of folks I met on XBL who...played Gears all the time.

And some other gaming with my forum buddies once in a while.

I haven't listened to any really bigoted crap on XBL since...hmmm...the last time I played Halo 3 against random XBLers.

Spiderbite

Yeah...he's a dick. AVOID AT ALL COSTS!!!

RubenR

Originally Posted by slop101
I want to know how in the name of fuck a 12 year old gets:

- a $500 video game machine
- a $50 subscription to Live
- a $60 game M-rated game
- unattended playtime to spew hate into his head-piece

You need all of this in order to get to the issue being discussed.
Seriously - that's a lot of scratch and time. There's no way a parent could be this absent - unless there really are that many bad/clueless parents out there.

I work at a middle school,and it really sucks to get your ass handed to you in HALO by ACTUAL 12yr olds!!! anyway, to answer SLPO101's ???

#1-- Most students of mine play on their big brothers console. Big brothers are usually in High School and are out "party'in" late nite and on weekends..

#2-- 12yr olds are excellent manipulators!! most of my students "control" their parents and milking a live sub is "easy" at best.

#3-- M-rated game provided by Big Bro....although I know of one 6th grader who talked his mom into buying him GTA4!!

#4-- "most" middle school kids are not afraid of their parents anymore. see #2. I see parents cuss at their kids all day!! Soooo what do you think I hear all day from that kid?

To sum up----What I have noticed is.......most students at my school cuss because, it is the only thing that makes them feel like an adult. Think about it, you are too young to get a job. The only person you can push around is your little bro and you know that you are the smartest person in the world. most students hormones are raging, they have so much to say and do...yet ...they don't own a car!! I,too would be pissed and adore and savor every minute of OVER-the -TOP,ADULT,SILLY trash talking over XBOX LIVE that I could........

That being said......

Those kids still piss me the F#&k OFF!!!!

Laters,
(See my sig)

slop101

Wow, I'm old - if I pulled that shit when I was 12, my parents would've handed my ass to me. In fact, they did hand my ass to me on several occasions, for much smaller infractions.

RubenR

Slop101........one day we will look back in history.......and right there in BIG BOLD letters in the BIG book of what went wrong....we will read this: Chapter 1: Shit Hits the Fan! Scientist now pin point the exact cause of social disintegration. Parents were to afraid of handing their kids ass to them !!!! PERIOD!

pinata242

Parents aren't afraid of their kids, they're afraid of over-reacting nutjobs in society that have nothing better to do than accuse without context.

This probably belongs in one of the various Other threads on the subject, but last night while my wife was coaching my 7 year-old's cheerleading practice, I was playing in the nearby park with our 4 year-old. During the course of playing she'd scream and I'd have to tell her to not be so loud because other people would think something bad was happening.

Also, as we traveled from area to area, she'd run ahead of me - sometimes shrieking. I thought that must've looked great to the onlookers as I chase a young girl in a bathing suit across the park as she's running and screaming.

You just never know what some person is going to accuse you of and derail your life entirely with no justification or repercussion. But at the same time, can you always assume it's the father chasing the kid?

Extrapolating that to the future of a kid that needs to be brought in line, I can easily see why people are so fearful of taking those steps we used to be under the rule of.

mhg83

I just E-mailed Major Nelson and told him about your idea.


hopefully he reads the e-mail and does something.

JasonF

If he likes it, I could be the most hated person in the world among the 12-year-old d-bag demographic!

xmiyux

Oh i would totally report you.

While i do think the tools need to be improved and the repercussions do need highlighted more (iirc they mentioned once how many people were banned or permanently muted every day and it seemed pretty high to me - but since we have no way to tell someone was "punished" it seems nothing is being done) i also think having a good community/friends list makes all the difference in the world. When i play Halo 3 i have my setting so i only hear the voice of people on my friends list or in my party. Then i only go into matchmaking with buddies. This means i am never subjected to the asshats on Live unless they somehow made it to my friends list.

Someone acts like a bitch then i knock them off my list and the problem is solved.


Well except for Spiderbite... i keep him on my friends list (bitch or not) because of his dulcet singing voice.

Spiderbite

Spank you...spank you very much.

lordzeppelin

I'll have to check my list later and make sure you're still there.