Not only those points, but if a game can be developed much easier on the 360 and PC then wouldn't it be better to develop there than on the PS3 with all those other factors too?

I think the 360 or the Wii are MUCH better positioned to make that happen. Sony is losing exclusives left and right. There is no real reason to not get a 360 - it's cheaper and plays nearly the same games. Blu-Ray is a non-issue. Most consumers aren't going to rebuy their collections, so it's a novelty at best. 360 owners who want an HD-DVD player can choose to add it, meaning the only people who get one are people who actually want one. That's what Sony should have done.

Let me put it this way - the only system I still have from last generation is my PS2. I still play Guitar Hero 2 and will pick up God of War 2 when it comes out. I see absolutely no reason to pick up a PS3. The 360 and Wii already have plenty of games for me this generation.

I am amused that it has taken this long for people to start realizing how bad PS3 is. It seems pretty obvious to me that ps3 was designed from the ground up as a method of getting bluray players into homes and as a gaming machine second. The lack of intelligent design in the hardware (no hardware scaling, no unified memory, etc) is of course very crippling but forcing the bluray player into a gaming system is even worse.

Did you know that the bluray player is a 2x player? The read times are terribly slow, which leads to horrible load times on games. Developers have been combating this (so far) by a) installing the game on the hard drive or b) having code duplicated on the disc so seek distances are less. Wait until it becomes common knowledge that ps3 games burned on dvd would play *better* (if sony would allow devs to do that) than those burned on bluray and the you know what will really hit the fan!

I think it has always been obvious that with the PS3, the main factor was BluRay, that is what Sony wanted to focus on. In one sense, it makes sense, as of now they can turn around to movie studios and show X amount of BluRay players are in homes, where as HD DVD can't match those numbers, all due to the fact that the PS3 comes with a Blu Ray player.

From a gaming stand point though, I don't think anyone can dismiss that the PS3 has been a huge disaster. You can get rid of the price tag, you can get rid of someof the hwardware problems , but look at the shelf and you'll see a few crappy games that no one really wants to play. Then you take in account all those things, the price and the hardware issues and it just makes the situation worse and worse.

Honestly, at this point, if they lose any more exclusives, it's a huge hit. If Microsoft announces a price drop, it's a huge hit. If Nintendo keeps selling like they are, it's a huge hit to Sony. There are so many things goin' wrong and so few things going right with the PS3 post-launch.

With all that said, in one sense Sony can't lose. Yes, they can come in 2nd or 3rd in the "gaming war", but with the amount of PS3's sold counting towards the total installed base of BluRay, there is a HUGE chance they could win the "format war" and I think that is really what Sony is wanting to focus on at this point.

I own all 3 last-gen consoles. I don't own any of this gen (yet). But, if I were to buy one today, It would be a 360, then a Wii. I can't even say the PS3 is my 3rd choice, as there is only one game on it right now that I am even mildy interested in.

I remember when the Xbox and Gamecube came out, and seeing the Halo and Rogue Squadron demos on them and being really impressed them, graphics-wise. They looked good and had great framerates, the bit of extra power in these systems, along with the extra year of time to develop/polish the games really showed. Also, loading times were way faster than on PS2.

I was expecting that the PS3 would hold the benefits this time from coming out a year later. I was expecting games that look better than on the 360, and I haven't seen it (yet).

But, as long as the androgenous Japanese RPGs are mainly on the PS3, I figure it will do well enough, especially in Japan, to make it eventually be a competitor.

I'd be fine if this generation ended up being basically a 3-way tie.

I owned all 3 last gen, and the PS2 was my most played and still gets a lot of play time (playing the hell out of Guitar Hero I and II at the moment, have God of War on deck).

I too have no interest in the PS3. The price is too high, it's losing exclusives left and right.

My current plan is to try sticking with just the Wii and if it isn't providing enough games to pick up a 360 after a price drop.

That's pretty unexpected for me given that the PS2 was again my most played console and the X-box the least played console I've ever owned.

Surprised no one is trashing the guy for saying that he thinks the Wii will eventually surpass the 360 for the dominant market share. I posted a more extensive quote in the Wii thread the other day and it went largley ignored.

Here is the quote I posted:

Why would anyone (fanboys aside which we thankfully have few if any around here these days) trash him for saying that?

The Wii is flying off shelves and many people thing it could well end up selling the most with the hype its getting and its mass market appeal in terms of pick up and play games and a much more friendly price.

I'm not sure what a ton is, but my impressions are that PS3 and Wii sales are kind of in the same league of each other. Okay, I looked it up: Wii 1.1M vs PS3 687K for 2006.

But, my impressions are opposite of yours since PS3s are getting shipped in large quantities to stores in January (and are selling at a decent rate) vs virtually no Wiis shipped so far in January.

Someone posted a picture of a large shipment (~60) PS3s showing up at Best Buy and nearly selling out within a week. That's pretty decent as a single example.

On the other hand, using iTrackr data, more than half of the stores near me have apparently not received any Wiis in the past 3 weeks. How could the Wii be selling more than the PS3 if that is the case? I agree that the Wii has potential of selling more due to the price difference, but I don't believe that is reality.

I'll be curious to see sales numbers for January. I wouldn't be surprised to see the total consoles sales to date be even between the Wii and PS3.

I would guess the same people who are trying to convince themselves that the PS3 is somehow a success at this point in time!!

Judging from the numbers, it does indeed look like the Wiil has already eaten away at a good chunk of the market. Which is good for me, since right now it is my console of choice.

Current worldwide numbers:

360: 10.1 million
Wii: 3.9 million
PS3: 1.1 million

I have a feeling stores have figured out how to get around iTrackr being able to get their inventory.

Best Buy, Circuit City and Target all have the Wii advertised as available this Sunday (min 9 per CC, 20 per BB, no min listed for Target) so all three of those stores should have been getting shipments and holding them. Or their corporate offices could be holding shipments in Warehouses until closer till Sunday or something I suppose.

At any rate, January sales will be largely determined by this weekend probably.

The store example points to the demand issue as well. That single store couldn't sell through that stack of PS3s in 5 days, whereas a stack of Wiis that size wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of hours given that every store that's gotten Wiis in has sold them out instantly thus far.

Those numbers totals are less than 10% of what the expected market will be for this current gen of hardware. There is still an incredibly long way to go.

I stand corrected that many dispute the notion of Sony achieving ultimate dominance, but I stand by that assertion, believing that they will eventually double their competitors in market share. Of course, judging from my household it is the 360 that is best poised as it is what gets played by far the most. The Wii the least.

rI don't disagree with you, but from what I gather reading the threads and what I've seen with my eyes, is that Wiis haven't been getting shipped in any measurable quantity so far in 2007. Perhaps it is a calculated move on Nintendos end to have this apparent simulatenous relaunch this weekend?

Right now, you only hear of the occasional person who follows a UPS truck into a Gamestop and is lucky to get 1 of the 3 units delivered, but at least with the PS3, they had a major restock on Jan 1st with every Best Buy receiving a large (e.g. 30 to 50) shipment, and again each week afterwards, plus shipments to Target, Circuit City, Gamestops, etc. How long it takes each shipment to sell has been widely varying, some selling out instantly, some apparently not selling at all. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me (and you either) if the PS3 outsells the Wii in January.

It wouldn't surprise me either. Nintendo is screwing the pooch a bit with not having the supply anywhere near the demand.

They greatly underestimated demand and as a result are missing out on a chance to really build a big lead over Sony. I mean 2.8 million units is a pretty good lead in worldwide sells as is, but it could be much greater if they could actually get them in the homes of the millions still wanting them.

Unless Microsoft somehow makes some sort of collosal blunder, it's tough to believe that the PS3 will sell 10x as many PS3's as 360's to overtake the number one position in the market. The big reason that Nintendo MIGHT be able too is the price and wider appeal.

The PS3 is aiming squarely at he same gaming segment that the 360 now occupies. I think they'll recover somewhat and duke it out for second with Nintendo, but IMO it's a longshot to think they'll be on top once again.

When I picked up my Wii a couple weeks ago, it was at a Fred Meyer (northwest chain). I called daily, they always had PS3s in stock, but no Wiis. Then one morning they received 27 Wiis. They had 2 left by the time I was able to get there an hour later.

I'd like to see a more staggered release between consoles; Example: MS releases the 360 in 2005, Sony releases the PS3 in 2008, MS releases next version in 2011, etc (ignoring Nintendo for this example, obviously)

That way, each "new" console would have ~3 years where the could plainly show how much power they have to offer with their new technology, while the other would have 3 years worth of games built up for their system, along with a drop in price. I don't have a problem with buying a new console every 3 years if it is a good system, but I don't like having 2 systems that are pretty much the same power as one another, with pretty much the same games, at the same price points, released at basically the same time. Spread it out a bit!

let's see, a negative news item about the PS3 from an Xbox site...

Doesn't matter, the interview is from Game Informer magazine. The site had nothing to do with the interview or comments, the thread starter just linked to that story about the Game Informer piece.

Nintendo may be making a mistake, but it won't be helping Sony. I don't think Wii buyers will decide to spend that much more to get a PS3, but it may be a reason the 360 is still selling quite briskly.

Please stop using numbers from nexgenwars, they are sort of a joke to people when you refer to them. I think the numbers from vgcharts are more reasonable. Does anyone think the 360 has sold 5 million units in Europe? Also do remember the PS3 still has not been released in Europe yet.

360
0.33m Japan
5.18m Americas
2.88m Others
8.39m

Wii
1.28m Japan
1.43m Americas
0.96m Others
3.67m

PS3
0.64m Japan
0.94m Americas
0.00m Others
1.58m

Microsoft already announced they have sold over 10 million 360's, so an 8 million number doesn't seem accurate to me.

I'll tell you what I think Sony did,or in this case, didn't do. They did not learn from their own and their competitors mistakes of the past.

1. Trying to force a new format on the market, targeting the wrong demographic.

2. Charging more for a game console than most households are willing to pay, and worse yet having Nintendo come out with a cheaper, unique gaming system that appeals to all households.

3. Designing the unit in such a way that it is bulky, plasticky, and well...an eyesore. Surely Sony remembered all the xbox "brick" comments from the last gen. Why would they build something just as awkward.

I think all in all, the PS3 will be a failure at this pricepoint. However, I think if they make the 60g pricepoint around $399 now...right NOW before the xbox 360 does a pricedrop, and rest assured they will the moment the PS3 comes down in price, they may sell many more units.

The longer Sony waits to drop the price the more likely it will never garner a significant market share.

I think they announced they had shipped over 10 million. Doesn't mean they have sold that many.

Nintendo is the only of the three that announces units sold through rather than shipped in their press releases.

I thought that might be it initially (and that someone would mention it), so I went to search the announcement before posting and it seems to be # sold from what I could tell.