I can only think of two PS1 games that actually used that in a significant way and one of them is Japan only. That was only "successful" once it was standard from the get-go on the PS2. Other than the two mentioned, every PS1 game was still built around digital control and may have simply offered analog.

I'll start my impressions by saying that I basically had made up my mind to buy the Wii once they showed the controller off months ago. However, I waited on buying a 360 because I am going to own two (can't justifiy having over a grand dropped on three consoles), and I wanted to see what PS3 was going to bring to the table.

My Nintendo impression were inline with what I expected, show me GAMES, GAMES, and more GAMES with the new controller. Like I said, I was sold a long time ago on their ability to change the way I play and think about games.

Sony- I really wish they changed their controller. I hate the dual shock, but I understand that tons of people love it. Sony hasn't convinced me of their online strategy, which is going to be a deciding factor for me. I want to start playing games online with some of my friends around the country. The tilt controller thing kinda pissed me off more than anything else, because they started out their conference by saying they weren't interested in gimmacks.

MS- Should have shown off more games. What the hell? They didn't show me anything.


In short.... yesterday was very thing on games announced by MS and sony. I guess I will have to wait a little longer before making my choice for console #2.

Overall- Price for PS3 is insane, Blue Ray might kill them the more I think about it. I hate format wars.

I'd agree that most games were not designed soley for it. However from a sucess standpoint, every person I knew that had a PS1 owned the Dualshock. So from a sales standpoint, I beieve it t be widely succesful. Further, its later adoption by the PS2 could be considered a success as it prved to be a worthy controller. I understand your point though.

Once again, you are wrong.

The two compromises were the addition of "push-pull" tracking using advanced pit geometry. That was a combined Sony and Philips addition. EFMPlus, which decreased the disc size, was strickly a Philips addition.

And I wasn't aware you wanted to discuss innovation outside the gaming realm. Ok then. Motion sensing controllers have been used for decades in research laboratories. The gyroscope was first functionally used in the early 1900s - I guess Nintendo is about 100 years late to the table then, eh?

You can't successfully argue that Sony wasn't the first (mainstream) gaming console to use DVD. They brought that to the industry, and everyone else is following.

So does that mean you believe that the PS3 tilt function is purely <u>coincidental</u> and had nothing to do with Nintendo showing their controller last year? Seriously. Can you say that with a straight face? Last year we had a PS3 Batarang with rumble. This year we have a Dual shock with wii tilt functions. :hscratch:

How do we know the batarang didn't change to the dual shock because it wasn't tilt viable? i.e. couldn't house the electronics? You assume they changed it to listen to consumers complaints about something they have never even held in their hands, but it could easily have been the other way around.

You clearly didn't watch the same conferences a lot of us watched. Microsoft has the best conference, with Nintendo right their with them. Sony was a distant third. I think Sony dropped the ball, not only on price, but on the tard pack as well. Plus it looked as though they completely ripped off the Wii remote and Xbox Live and Live Marketplace. Plus they introduced 2 SKUs after ridiculing Microsoft last year for doing the exact same thing. So they copied Microsoft's strategy on that as well. The biggest goof is the $500 PS3 has no HDMI, no WiFi, no memory stick, SD, or Compact Flash support. Plus, it can't be upgraded. Which likely means 1080p support that Sony has been boasting about for a year, is dead in the water that version. There's also a good chance you can't even play Blu-Ray discs on the thing is studios decide to require HDMI.

Essentially, it is a glorified gaming machine. Almost everyone will buy the PS3 to play games. Honestly, that's what gamers care about. A good gaming machine. If it didn't play games, nobody would bother. So in the future, Sony needs to concentrate on creating a gaming machine rather than a box that can do everything. The PS3 will be a good console with good games. But Sony would have been better off holding off on the Blu-Ray drive. But we know why they insisted.

Who knows. What the prototype just a decoy? Have they been working on this new Dual Shock for years, and had someone in the art department work up that prototype in order to throw off competitors from what they were doing?

Or was it, as you said, a realization that it wouldn't work that way and they had to go back to what did work?

Who knows.

This is a typical response from you Josh. When faced with clear conradiction you expand the problem to try and appear as though your arguement was originally correct.[1] You then ignore the various valid points in my arguement to focus on one particular aspect and attempt to exploit its weakness. [2] You then fail to address other points made. [3]

You originally said:
This is not the same as:
[1] I directly addresed you original post in your implied claim that Sony was the first to use DVD for gaming, not your new and modified point that Sony was the first to "mainstream gaming console" to use DVD. I can't refute what you apparently "mean" but don't say.

Moving on:
[2] I apologize I may have got some of the minor technical details incorrect on the DVD format, the point was not the technical aspects however, it was the fact that Sony was not the originator of the DVD technology.

[3] What say you about your claim against MS and their failed attempt to include a HD? You said:
Again I will ask, "Remind me again where I can get an orignal Xbox without a harddrive?"

Exactly. Could be, but at this point, hot on the heels of Wii, it just reeks of desperation for lack of a better word.

Joystiq posted an article based on a Eurogamer interview with the Warhawk developer. http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/09/du...at-last-minute

Why don't you take some of your own advice? I said (and you can look at the part you quoted) "I guess Nintendo stole using a DVD drive for gaming from Sony, right?". Read it again. DVD drive. Were there various games on DVDs? Yes. Was Sony the first company to use a DVD drive specifically for gaming? You bet! If you are going to claim that I twist my words, you are going to have to be able to back that up without doing the same.

True. Sony was not the originator. They were one of many originators. Sony/Philips developed MMCD while Toshiba, TW, etc had SDD. Once they were combined, they formed DVD.

Well, a quick look at EB Games website shows I can't buy a new Xbox period. Their failure is in what they are producing now. Sure, I should have specified that they failed this generation. So let me pull that statement and make a new one:

Sony actually does it were Microsoft failed. Sony confirmed what most had expected - a hard drive standard (another failed Microsoft innitiative for Xbox360).

Just cause it wasn't ready for "prime-time" doesn't mean it wasn't in development for a long while.

Josh - sit back, take a breather and relax before going on the offensive with your defensive statements. Otherwise, we'll have to force the break on you.

Everyone else who's egging Josh on. Please stop, or the same fate will come to you. We all know he's a self admitted Sony fanboy (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=464860) and he'll have a response to everything which keeps the cycle going.

Josh I'm not twisting anything, read it again. This is way off topic now, I'm leaving it at that.

A conclusion is only as good as its premise and supporting content. Destroy either the premise or the supporting content, and the conclusion fails. I have successfully done that here.

Josh - that's your opinon, which is troll bait.

I liked all three Keynotes. I was a little disappointed with Sony's unorganized presentation but liked the possibilities of the PS3.

Side note - this thread is way too much fun to read everyone's opinions on E3 keynotes and a little off topic subjects.

I'd actually consider the Nintendo Power Glove and the U-Force better inpirations for the Wii controller in all honesty. Nintendo tried similar controllers near 20 years ago, but the technology wasn't there then.

Sony - I was dissapointed in their conference. Nothing they showed excited me. I was expecting the $500+ price, and was ready to pay it, but none of the games excited me. I'll be holding off on getting one until they bring out some games I want to play. The tilt-sensor in the controller is stupid, IMO. It's a gimmick, and I doubt more than a handful of games will ever use it. The PSP stuff was dissapointing too. The little they showed there wasn't very exciting either. I don't care about using my PSP as a rear view mirror. Hopefully they'll find some better ways to use it with the PS3.

Nintendo - I really liked their conference. I don't care if the graphics don't look that much better than Gamecube. Most of what they showed looked fun. I'm definately going to be pre-ording a Wii.

Microsoft - I really liked their conference as well. I liked the games they showed, and I liked the connectivity stuff with 360, Vista, and mobile phones. I still play my PC a lot and the PC - 360 connection stuff was exciting to me. Crysis looked awesome too. I'm glad MS is putting some emphasis on the PC again. Also, I liked all the classic and new games coming to XBLA. I'd say I was equally excited by both the MS and Nintendo conferences.

I really Think Nintendo won the pre E3 conference series. The lineup of games was strong and more importantly they looked like fun.

M$ showed things that have been expected nothing new to show really but the presentation was nice. And the idea of the HD-DVD drive being external is awesome, if I want it I can buy it but I'm not being forced into it. Nice choice in my opinion especially since DVD is still plenty for most games and if not you can just throw in a second disk.

Sony. The games looked sorta nice I guess. Once again I'll buy one but it's not going to be at launch like last time I'm gonna have to see some serious shit from them to get me to pay that much. My PS2 has lasted this long I guess it will last another year or more.

To be fair, most new installments of Mario, Metroid, Zelda etc. bring a lot of new gameplay elements to the table. You don't have to invent new characters to be innovative.

And besides, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I've never really said that Sony and MS have no innovation. It's just mainly the way they've "innovated" games toward "mature" games like GTA has gotten away from the types of games I like to play.

Not to mention where Nintendo truly innovates is with controllers (analog, rumble, the DS touch screen, the bongos used in a platformer, the Wii controller) and new types of games like Mario Party (back in the day) and WarioWare.

I get that Nintendo isn't your cup of tea, and that's fine. MS, and to a lesser extent, Sony aren't my cup of tea these days.

But I'm not going to repeatedly post console bashes saying how much they suck. I just acknowledge that they aren't offering the types of games that interest me in great enough numbers to get my $$$.

That's why it's great that there are three consoles out there with their own strengths and weaknesses. There's one that will fit everyone's tastes. No need for all this juvenile pissing and moaning about which one is best.

I agree, I really wish Sony would have done the same thing with Blu-Ray. $500-600 is way more than myself and many others will pay for a console. It would make much more sense to launch a $300 gaming only version for those who just want to play games.

Especially when the vast majority of people still don't have HDTVs.

Oh well, BluRay is their baby and they want to force it into homes anyway they can.

But in doing so they may have just pulled a "nintendo sticking with carts" and put themselves out of first place in the console race this gen.

I figure they'll still end up on top, but MS or Nintendo will finish a much closer second this go around and be in position to over take them the next go around.

Uhhh no, I watched the same one you did and if you read some of the other posters here they actually agree MS had the worst conference of the 3 so don't accuse me of not watching the same one you did. Thanks.

Sony really needs to thank Konami for saving them. A day after people were writing Sony's press con as a disaster, Konami showed the TRUE trailer for Metal Gear Solid 4. MY GOD. By far trailer of the show (leaves Halo 3 in the dust). Like Halo 3, it's supposedly running on final hardware...but no interactive demo shown. Still, the action easily surpasses most films in the theatre nowadays.