MS announces an external HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360
#28
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I'm pretty sure HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will require HDMI inorder to output 720p/1080i/1080p. Which begs the question, will you be able to connect the entire system by HDMI, or just the HD-DVD player? I'll have to wait for more info before I get past the 'gimick' phase.
#29
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Anyway, this whole MS thing seems silly. No developer will ever support it from a gaming standpoint so it is just an excuse to sell a stand-alone player just to have an alternative to the PS3. Pretty lame.
People assume that the electronics to support an HD-DVD drive take up just as much space as standard DVD. That may not be true, yet. Warranty issues aside, it may not be technically possible to fit an HD-DVD drive inside the 360 case.
Being an external drive makes it easier for MS to strike a deal with Toshiba and other HD-DVD player manufacturers to make 360-compatible players. Depending upon how much Toshiba wants to invest in making HD-DVD succeed, they could provide MS with insanely subsidized HD-DVD player add-ons.
I'm not particularly interested in any hidef DVD format at the moment, but offering an HD-DVD add-on for the 360 may be doing more than just offering an HD alternative to the PS3... it demonstrates MS' commitment to making the 360 an "entertainment hub". This coming year is going to be quite interesting.
#30
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If it is any cheaper than a stand alone HD-DVD player, then it's not lame at all. If you already have a 360 and plan on buying a HD-DVD machine, then it makes good sense.
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I'm not jumping on the Sony Blu-Ray bandwagon just yet. Personally, I've never been impressed with any system's DVD movie output, and thus will not just assume that the PS3 will get it right, especially since the drive will be a "cheap" version of a first generation player.
I agree with others that I would be kind of ticked if I had bought a 360 and this new drive was going to start coming standard ... what then is the benefit of being an early adopter?
I agree with others that I would be kind of ticked if I had bought a 360 and this new drive was going to start coming standard ... what then is the benefit of being an early adopter?
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
I agree with others that I would be kind of ticked if I had bought a 360 and this new drive was going to start coming standard ... what then is the benefit of being an early adopter?
#34
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Unless this player is less than $70, I doubt MS will sell too many copies. As someone else mentioned, the jump from VHS to DVD was enormous, and noticeable to just about anyone, while the difference between DVD and HD-DVD isn't as large. So, until every Tom, Dick, and Harry has an HDTV, HD-DVD won't be the #1 format. And I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who buy a 360 won't know that the system isn't really HD, because upconversion isn't exactly the most obvious concept in the world. So people will see this expensive add-on, wonder what it's for, and in the end, decide it's not worth it.
Does the 360 already upconvert movies? If so, this will be an even harder sell.
Does the 360 already upconvert movies? If so, this will be an even harder sell.
#36
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Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
Um, how about being able to play games for the system while everyone else waits?
#37
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
I'm not jumping on the Sony Blu-Ray bandwagon just yet. Personally, I've never been impressed with any system's DVD movie output, and thus will not just assume that the PS3 will get it right, especially since the drive will be a "cheap" version of a first generation player.
I agree with others that I would be kind of ticked if I had bought a 360 and this new drive was going to start coming standard ... what then is the benefit of being an early adopter?
I agree with others that I would be kind of ticked if I had bought a 360 and this new drive was going to start coming standard ... what then is the benefit of being an early adopter?
Microsoft has already shown that it is taking a "modular" approach to expanding the 360's capabilities. They COULD HAVE made the hard drive internal... but they made it an external option. The HD-DVD drive will be an external option as well. When all is said and done, the 360 will be an entertainment hub. Like the stereo receiver was back in the 70's.
#38
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Originally Posted by Groucho
There are no other games being made for any other system?
#39
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OK, you can talk about "being able to play games" all you want ... but I think anyone would be ticked they plunked down a minimum of $300-$400 for a console that becomes obsolete in 6 months (when one reason to buy a console is to do none to minor upgrading for around 4-5 years).
As for my comment about early adopters, if the trend became to upgrade systems quickly after the initial launch, I'm guessing that even more people would skip buying at launch for inevitable hardware changes and/or price drops. This would be a dangerous situation for companies, I believe, as according to a lot of people on this board, Microsoft's launch has "failed" even though they cannot meet demand. I don't think that any company would want to give consumers more reasons to wait past the first generation of the hardware.
As for my comment about early adopters, if the trend became to upgrade systems quickly after the initial launch, I'm guessing that even more people would skip buying at launch for inevitable hardware changes and/or price drops. This would be a dangerous situation for companies, I believe, as according to a lot of people on this board, Microsoft's launch has "failed" even though they cannot meet demand. I don't think that any company would want to give consumers more reasons to wait past the first generation of the hardware.
Last edited by silentbob007; 01-05-06 at 01:06 PM.
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Originally Posted by CKMorpheus
than HD-DVD, which will require people to purchase either this external hard drive, or an expensive, unstable, first-generation HD-DVD players.
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
OK, you can talk about "being able to play games" all you want ... but I think anyone would be ticked they plunked down a minimum of $300-$400 for a console that becomes obsolete in 6 months (when one reason to buy a console is to do none to minor upgrading for around 4-5 years).
#42
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
OK, you can talk about "being able to play games" all you want ... but I think anyone would be ticked they plunked down a minimum of $300-$400 for a console that becomes obsolete in 6 months (when one reason to buy a console is to do none to minor upgrading for around 4-5 years).
#43
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Originally Posted by lotsofdvds
Why does an optional external component render the console obsolete?
#44
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HD-DVD: Microsoft's folly?
Forthcoming accessory for Xbox 360 might solve fewer problems than expected.
Game Over is a weekly column by Chris Morris
January 5, 2006: 1:05 PM EST
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) – As it ramped up the hype machine for the Xbox 360, Microsoft coined a new term: The High Definition Era. Wednesday in Las Vegas, it took the next step, announcing plans for a HD-DVD accessory for the video game machine. Question is: Will the move do any good?
Don't misunderstand. Microsoft certainly needed to do something to acknowledge the coming improvements in the DVD format - and it was hardly a mystery that it had chosen to take a position counter to Sony's (Research) Blu-Ray technology.
There were certainly practical advantages to bypassing HD-DVD as an included feature of the Xbox 360, as well. Going with a standard DVD player kept costs down substantially. But yesterday's announcement could irk some the system's early adopters.
At present, Microsoft (Research) says the HD-DVD will only be for movies. There are no current plans to offer games on HD-DVDs.
That could – and very likely will - change, of course. As developers begin to truly take advantage of the system's features in the coming months and years, you're going to see games that cannot fit onto a single DVD. In fact, that's already happening. The developer of "Enchant Arms," an upcoming role-playing game in Japan, told Gamespot.com last year it was hoping to be able to fit the game on two discs, but admitted "that's even looking grim." Any old school gamer can tell you that switching discs while playing is not a fun experience.
Game developers are in something of a bind, though. Even if Microsoft opens up the HD-DVD player for game software and even if sales of the peripheral soar, game makers will still have to publish two versions of the game, which could confuse and frustrate consumers.
Even worse, it could result in a situation mirroring what the PC gaming industry currently faces. The industry standard for PCs is still CDs. While DVD-ROMs are becoming more widespread in newer machines, they still haven't hit a critical mass, so publishers and retailers continue to publish titles on multiple CDs rather than a single DVD, resulting in some frustration among gamers. (You don't have to swap CDs as you play, as you used to with floppy discs, but loading the game onto your hard drive takes noticeably longer.)
Truth be told, it's likely to be a while before the HD-DVD accessory gains traction. Microsoft pointedly avoided discussing a price Wednesday, but the new drives aren't likely to be cheap. Toshiba recently announced plans to sell a stand-alone HD-DVD player for $499. Even if Microsoft's version sells for considerably less, you're still likely to see a price tag equal to or greater than the price of the core Xbox 360 unit.
Granted, most current Xbox 360 owners – and a sizable percentage of the folks who buy one as this year progresses – are early adopters and interested in the latest and greatest gadgets, but I suspect if they're going to spend that much for a HD-DVD player, they'll opt for a standalone unit.
All that said, Microsoft's no fool for releasing this add-on. If nothing else, it's a good way to test user-acceptance of the format without committing the company to it. Should Blu-Ray emerge the winner in this latest round of media format wars, Microsoft can always choose to go in that direction with its next incarnation of Xbox, keeping the option of backward-compatibility open. (Both HD-DVD and Blu Ray can play current generation DVDs, but not the rival format.)
Ultimately, the availability of a HD-DVD accessory probably won't hurt or help Microsoft. It will serve its purpose, though: Preventing Sony from being able to accurately say the PS3 is the only game machine with a high definition DVD drive. And as the battle between those two companies escalates this year, that's no small thing.
#45
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
You are leaving out an important bit of info though. The jump from VHS to DVD was a giant step in quality, size and price, which is why it became all the rage. The average consumer is going to see the jump from DVD to Blu-ray/HD like VHS to S-VHS, or CD to SACD. More of a lateral move in media formats, sure it is a better image, but is it worth the investment?
Anyway, this whole MS thing seems silly. No developer will ever support it from a gaming standpoint so it is just an excuse to sell a stand-alone player just to have an alternative to the PS3. Pretty lame.
Anyway, this whole MS thing seems silly. No developer will ever support it from a gaming standpoint so it is just an excuse to sell a stand-alone player just to have an alternative to the PS3. Pretty lame.
I agree, the average person isn't going to see much of a difference. They're probably the ones playing their 360 using a a Composite or RF connection to their TV that was made in the late 80's.
#46
DVD Talk Hero
Do they even make an RF connector for the 360? Wow, that would be unbelievable if someone was playing on the 360 that way...
#47
Retired
Originally Posted by fujishig
Do they even make an RF connector for the 360? Wow, that would be unbelievable if someone was playing on the 360 that way...
#48
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Originally Posted by Blitz6Speed
Heres my take on this.
[marketing pitch snipped]
Ive been hearing a lot of people saying that with Blu-Ray, games will cost more since it costs more to fill up the discs. I feel that is non-sense, as movies will always cost what they cost, box sets of tv shows will always cost what they cost, and the same goes for video games. Companys like nintendo were charging 50 bux for SNES titles which costed them a lot (board + chips on it for each and every game) vs a DVD game now which is less then 10 cents each, and they still cost 50 bux.
I might be off target by now, but i see that sony will win this one for sure. People already know the Playstation brand and its huge lineup of exclusives, it will have a built in top of the line high end HD movie player and will be reasonably priced when compared to even just a stand alone Blu-Ray movie player or a game system. Not to mention how much more space is possible on the BR discs, and the fact that with the new protective layer, you can scratch the disc with sandpaper, and its still 100% playable.
p.s. - I own a ps2, xbox, gc, ps1, genesis, snes, nes, saturn, dreamcast and more. I am so not-biased its not even funny lol.
[marketing pitch snipped]
Ive been hearing a lot of people saying that with Blu-Ray, games will cost more since it costs more to fill up the discs. I feel that is non-sense, as movies will always cost what they cost, box sets of tv shows will always cost what they cost, and the same goes for video games. Companys like nintendo were charging 50 bux for SNES titles which costed them a lot (board + chips on it for each and every game) vs a DVD game now which is less then 10 cents each, and they still cost 50 bux.
I might be off target by now, but i see that sony will win this one for sure. People already know the Playstation brand and its huge lineup of exclusives, it will have a built in top of the line high end HD movie player and will be reasonably priced when compared to even just a stand alone Blu-Ray movie player or a game system. Not to mention how much more space is possible on the BR discs, and the fact that with the new protective layer, you can scratch the disc with sandpaper, and its still 100% playable.
p.s. - I own a ps2, xbox, gc, ps1, genesis, snes, nes, saturn, dreamcast and more. I am so not-biased its not even funny lol.
1) The price increase of games to "fill the disc" as you put it is because it takes time and people to make the content to fill the disc. Those people have to be paid, which translates to the consumer. So believe what you want, but the discs with MORE content will cost MORE.
Also, other than a brief part in the beginning of your post, you didn't talk about what this thread is really about. You basically did a rant on why the PS3 is going to be great. Glad you are buying into the marketing since I doubt you've seen or touched one yet. You also made alot of assumptions about the price and that hasn't been announced either.
As far as the XBox add-on. Yes, I believe MS is trying to keep HD-DVD alive to avoid Sony running the next gen of DVD. It's a battle for control of the next gen and both sides don't care about the people, they care about the money and they'll do whatever they have to do to get it.
I think the external drive idea is good. For one, it is optional which means you don't have to buy something you don't want. Also easier to replace if something happens to it.
Remember, a non-bias person usually doesn't have to POINT OUT that he is non-bias.
#49
DVD Talk Hero
But you can't deny that for many, their first DVD player was a PS2, crappy as it might have been, and you didn't NEED the remote to play DVDs. It was 100 bucks more, it was a DVD player integrated with a game system they were going to buy anyway. This add-on is a similar strategy, and we'll see how it works. The recent quote by the Microsoft rep that over 90% of the people who bought the 360 either have or are planning to buy an HD capable set soon, so that seems to be the right market to go after.
No doubt the extra content will cost more, but let's look at the price of DVDs (which have far more content than VHS ever did) compared to the old VHS prices. For any HD format to be successful, it's going to have to be relatively cheap for it to take off, especially since lots of people already have full DVD collections. DVDs didn't seem to take off until they started being bargain priced.
If we're talking videogames, we're already seeing a gradual increase in price with the non-first party 360 games, and we'll see how it works. The excuse is that development costs a lot more, but there still needs to be some price freezing for the game industry to not collapse on itself, especially since they now make up the difference in volume sold. I believe we have a separate thread here for that, though.
No doubt the extra content will cost more, but let's look at the price of DVDs (which have far more content than VHS ever did) compared to the old VHS prices. For any HD format to be successful, it's going to have to be relatively cheap for it to take off, especially since lots of people already have full DVD collections. DVDs didn't seem to take off until they started being bargain priced.
If we're talking videogames, we're already seeing a gradual increase in price with the non-first party 360 games, and we'll see how it works. The excuse is that development costs a lot more, but there still needs to be some price freezing for the game industry to not collapse on itself, especially since they now make up the difference in volume sold. I believe we have a separate thread here for that, though.
#50
Retired
Being in college, I can tell you that a LOT of students I knew at the time used the PS2 as their first dvd player.
They were gamers first, movie fans second and just took advantage of the fact that the ps2 played DVDs out of the box (remote was optional, it was the X-box that required it for playback).
However, I don't think this will be a big factor with the PS3 as most college students and the ilk that used the PS2 as their first DVD player probably aren't likely to have HDTVs anyway to be able to use the blu ray.
They were gamers first, movie fans second and just took advantage of the fact that the ps2 played DVDs out of the box (remote was optional, it was the X-box that required it for playback).
However, I don't think this will be a big factor with the PS3 as most college students and the ilk that used the PS2 as their first DVD player probably aren't likely to have HDTVs anyway to be able to use the blu ray.