William Wallace

btw, would anyone remember FF7 today if it had a forgettable plot?

I don't think so, maybe only for it's amazing(at the time) graphics.

Take a poll of everyones favorite FF game.

Now take a poll of the best story in an FF game, asking the same ppl.

I'd bet that the same game would win both polls, provided that you ask the same ppl each time.

fujishig

While I have yet to crack open DQ VIII (still torturing myself through the load times of Magna Carta), I doubt people are avoiding it solely because of the story, or lack thereof. From what I understand, it's still a pretty "old-school" turn-based RPG, which many raised on more modern battle systems may not like. And then there are the FF snobs who won't buy anything non-FF.

Ralph Wiggum

I think this is one area where games could make a huge leap in a totally organic manner: hire real writers (don't limit it to genre guys). It's not like the literary fiction people out there don't need the money - they aren't all teaching for the fun of it. Then again, that presupposes that publishers give a shit about their product and would spend money on anything other than licenses.

I've reached the point where I don't want ANY story in games because they're all so bad. I don't need to justify my gaming time with some ridiculous narrative, though I'd be more than happy to see good storytelling find its way into the medium.

PixyJunket

I don't get where you're trying to go with this thread, you're all over the place without a valid train of thought, in my opinion. You're complaining up and down about game plots and then start babbling about how a game without a plot is nothing. You start by saying you don't like it when RPGs go overboard with ridiculous plots channeling metaphorical and psychoanalytical nonsense and then you start ripping on Dragon Quest VIII (which I doubt you've played or know what it is from the sounds of it) which is the complete anti-thesis to the point of your initial post.

The story in Dragon Quest VIII does precisely what it should do: service the game. It's not a literary work (no game story is, or will be) but it's enjoyable in that it's very light-hearted and adventurous (a good change of pace in my opinion) and does a good job of keeping a great pacing between the plot and the game. In fact, I thought one aspect of the story was done quite brilliantly. When you start the game there's no introduction or back-story, you're thrown into the game with your entourage and an objective.. and you get bits of how you got there through small flashback sequences excellently colored in sepia tones throughout the first part of the game.

William Wallace

Pixy -

You seem to see things in black and white. So I don't like plots that get too wacky and unnecessarily complex. Does that mean I can't dislike a game for having little to no plot at all?

In case you didn't notice, the title of this thread is "when plots got bad". That can mean bad in many different ways.

PixyJunket

I'll assume you've played Dragon Quest VIII from start to finish since you are adamant and proud in your accusations so I'll just leave it that and just respectfully disagree with you as I'm only 20 hours in and felt there's been a sufficient enough story thus far and thankfully not all of it has been force fed to me (you get a lot through other means than just force fed cut scenes - a beautiful change of pace).

boredsilly

Yup. It was one of those first games that showed the "power" of the PSX. I honestly don't remember the particulars of the story (outside of Aeris getting got) and Shinra something, but I do remember things about the cut scenes and how great they looked as well as the game. Something I will never EVER forget are the summon Sepiroth did with the comet and the Knights of the Round summon. Those were awesome as hell. Most of my memories are visual ones, but I have a memory that isn't worth a damn so I might not count.

William Wallace

I already mentioned that maybe it would be rememberd for it's amazing graphics.

But clearly, the game has stood the test of time thanks to it's story. Why do you think so many ppl want to see a sequel to it?

RocShemp

Mainly because of Sephiroth. Talk to your average FF7 fan and they really don't care about it's story. They just thought Sephiroth was cool. Also, many remember that arcade or whatever it was. Story-wise, the only thing FF7 fans talk about is about Aerith (love that scene or hate it) and that the ending image was a letdown.

The game itself was fun and that's why I enjoyed it. But the story and characters were far from memorable. Serviceable but not memorable. That said, FF7's story was lightyears ahead of FF8's story. That was just lame and the characters were unlikeable.

William Wallace

Agree to disagree. My experiences w/ FF7 fans is the complete opposite.

RocShemp

Don't get me wrong. I don't think the story was crap. It had it's moments. It just wasn't memorable. When you break it down, it's a 40 hour version of countless anime that were already around dealing with similar themes.

But, really, turn to most fans and all you'll hear is "Aerith this" and "Aerith that" followed or preceded by variants of "Sephiroth rocks".

RoQuEr

What about games with numerous plots? Wing commander 3 or 4 was a different game each time I played thru it, depending on how well you did in each mission. Full motion video plots too!

RocShemp

But those didn't go bad. We're talking about storylines that go overboard and dive into silly territory. True, we have given examples of games that actually get this right so I supose WC3 and WC4 deserve a mention as well.

lordwow

I find a lot of video game plots are like really abstact Sci-Fi Movies/Books, that I have no point of reference and can't understand at all. This is what I think makes TV shows like Stargate a sucess, because you can relate, but even games like FFVII I was sitting there scratching my head as to what was going on most of time.

Other than that, there are games where the plot has gone bad,

I think Halo 2's plot crapped out, namely ending way too early and leaving me unsatisified.

X-Men Legends II plot was pretty bad compared to the first, I just didn't find it that interesting at all.

The ending of Half-Life 2 kinda left a sour taste in my mouth as well, but it was a really well done game so I can't really complain.
.

Draven

God, if I can't skip a cutscene I get so angry.

I actually play RPGs for the battle systems...I can't remember a single detail of my 40+ hour romp through FF7 other than Aeris dying (I'd renamed the character after my girlfriend-now-wife - we all had a good laugh when she got killed ) and that Sephiroth was a royal a-hole. Oh, and Barrett was a bad-ass.

I couldn't care less about the story - let me skip the cutscenes and get back to the game - oh, and I'd rather not read ten windows of text every time I step in a room, thanks.

ChrisKnudsen

Yeah, I think a lot of people had to like the story of FF7 when they made a movie sequel to it.

The Bus

This sums it up nicely:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/11/30

Hospitaller

someone probably already posted this, but I think this is a pretty good take on the debate:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/10/07


I tend to listen/read cutscenes and dialogue to an extent - if the story is lame or obvious ill skip more. to my friend dug cutscenes are an anathema.

fujishig

Well, since I don't really remember what happened in FFVII outside of a few major events, I was totally lost for a lot of the movie. Similar to the time I was playing Chrono Cross, and they had some kind of homage to Chrono Trigger that went totally over my head. And I loved Chrono Trigger. Maybe it's a good thing that series like FF and Zelda are just really loosely connected to other games of the series and aren't really direct sequels.

Nesbit

Super Mario Bros. You're going threw this castle trying to get to the princess but when you get to her you realize that the princess you're looking for is in another castle. WTF?!?

fujishig

Well, that's a step up from his previous life combatting a gorilla for a girl that wasn't a princess (or stomping on turtles with his brother). And at least Super Mario Bros. has an ending, I don't think he ever got the girl in the end in Donkey Kong.