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-   -   A Revolution rumor with some teeth (More 3d stuff) (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/video-game-talk/429022-revolution-rumor-some-teeth-more-3d-stuff.html)

jediwicz 08-22-05 08:53 PM

Sony has made a name for themselves, but it can argued that their name is soon followed by "Disc Read Error".

Get Me Coffee 08-23-05 06:04 AM


Originally Posted by jediwicz
Sony has made a name for themselves, but it can argued that their name is soon followed by "Disc Read Error".


So what name did Nintendo make for themselves, Jedi?

joshd2012 08-23-05 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by darkside
So Nintendo should just give up since they can't win anyway? I'm lost on your Sony fanboy logic. I think the very solid sales of Resident Evil 4 on a pretty much dead console show people will not always wait around for the Sony version.

I have no idea if this controller will even be worth copying by Sony and MS, but Nintendo apparently learned a tough lesson with the N64 controller and want to wait as long as possible to show this one to give themselves some chance to succeed.

I'll be the first one to say Nintendo has an almost impossible task ahead of them, but for Nintendo to not even try to compete with Sony is downright stupid. They have spent a lot of money on the Revolution hardware and that darn controller so they are wise to do everything possible to keep it a secret and give themselves a chance to somehow stand apart from the competition.

All three are bringing great things to the table this next generation and if we are wise we will hope all three are successful. Competition is always good for gamers in the long run. This may be the last time there are three strong competitors in the market.

For as much shit as I get for posting about Nintendo, it always get spun even more negative than it is by the Nintendo faithful. Look, I never said they shouldn't try to compete, just put it out there for people to see (its every other Nintendo fan who says they are just developing for their niche market who think they shouldn't compete). The DS was supposed to revolutionalize portable gaming, but I don't see Sony announcing any plans to release a dual screen PSP. Just because its innovative, doesn't mean that its practical.

Nintendo needs to put their cards on the table to create buzz. They have nothing to show for the Revolution except an empty box with a blue light. I'm going to need more evidence of this console before I get behind it. And the testimonial of Peter Molyneux (who just may beable to out-hype Sony) isn't going to do it for me.

Michael Corvin 08-23-05 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by darkside
for Nintendo to not even try to compete with Sony is downright stupid. They have spent a lot of money on the Revolution hardware and that darn controller so they are wise to do everything possible to keep it a secret and give themselves a chance to somehow stand apart from the competition.

Really? Which is a smarter business model? Losing money on every system sold and hope to turn a profit at some point or carve a niche market where you actually make money on every system sold? Worked out well for Sony this past generation, but will it work again? You have two competing companies willing to lose money to gain a foothold in the industry. It didn't turn out so well for MS this last generation and look at who takes the hit this gen. The consumer with a $400 console since MS aren't as willing to lose as much. If they fail to gain anything this generation, I doubt they will be around for the next.

You can't just bleed money and expect it to work. Nintendo sees this and is going to sit back making money while those two duke it out possibly leaving only one competitor for the next gen. That is the difference in the way the Japanese think and Americans. Long term vs. short term.

As for the controller, as much as I want to see it, I say, don't show it. There is that little saying, "those that don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it," which works rather well here. You can guarantee, MINUTES after it is unveiled both Sony and MS will have their teams coming up with something similar, making it less "revolutionary". Hopefully it lives up to the hype.

They need buzz, but tipping their hand isn't the way to do it. Showing some games in action, the d/l features, the wi-fi, the packaging, or the media would work. They can generate buzz without showing off the controller. My bet is more will be revealed closer to the 360 launch.

darkside 08-23-05 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
You can't just bleed money and expect it to work. Nintendo sees this and is going to sit back making money while those two duke it out possibly leaving only one competitor for the next gen. That is the difference in the way the Japanese think and Americans. Long term vs. short term.

We really don't disagree. All I was saying is Nintendo shouldn't have a defeatist attitude and just show the controller now because Sony is unbeatable and they will just win anyway. Nintendo has spent a lot of money on R&D on this console and they are going for a niche with it (maybe that is a mistake, but its the choice Nintendo has made). If the controller is something special and they can launch with some solid software they do have a chance to find a nice piece of the market away from the MS and Sony slugfest. However, if Sony or MS see it soon enough and it is something worth duplicating they can steal much of Nintendo's thunder by just releasing their own version around the Revolution launch the same way Sony did with the Dual Shock.

People need to realize Nintendo isn't fighting to be the number one console maker they are fighting just to survive as a console maker. They need every advantage possible.

As far as Sony being unbeatable, the Walkman and Trinitron were pretty unbeatable brands at one time and now are struggling for sales so nothing is guaranteed. All three companies will have to do everything possible to succeed.

jeffdsmith 08-23-05 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by joshd2012
Nintendo needs to put their cards on the table to create buzz. They have nothing to show for the Revolution except an empty box with a blue light. I'm going to need more evidence of this console before I get behind it.

I think the problem you run into on this forum is that everyone here, except maybe you, recognizes the fact that you would never get behind a Nintendo product, regardless of what they did or showed, therefore your comment is empty and without any real substance.

You have continually shown a natural disposition to knock any product or idea from MS or Nintendo while at the same time glazing over every Sony fault as if they arn't real or are taken completely out of context.

Perhaps the difference in opinions is that many people on this forum are interested in games and preserving the integrity of quality gameplay. To me, you appear to be much more concerned with features, graphics, buzz, hype, smoke and mirrors, etc. Then again, like most conflicts in life, this is likely a lack of communication. Simply put, many people here value a different type of gaming experience.

Here's a case and point: What has Sony shown that makes the PS3 so great?

In your mind you are likely formulating examples of new graphic possabilities, new features of communication and linux servers, incredible developer support, etc. To a Nintendo fan these things often mean very little (depending on the person).

What a Nintendo fan wants is solid, new, and innovative gameplay; the same advancements Nintendo has been pushing for decades. This is the "hype" Nintendo fans are looking for, for the promise of another level of gaming experience; just as the generation before it raised gaming, they look to the next generation to do the same.


In my opinoin, everyone is saying the same thing just in different languages and with different beliefs on how gaming will and can be truely advanced.

quietsoul 08-23-05 10:36 AM

jeffsmith, GREAT POST!

Seldom do I ever post in these forums, but your sentiments echo my thoughts exactly. The games that have been coming out lately have felt incredibly stale and boring. I find myself playing them more to pass the time and less to enjoy them, which is very saddening. I started playing video games because they were fun whether it was co-op Contra with my brother, staying up all night with SMB2, or handing out beatdowns in SF2. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some outstanding games out for all the current gen consoles (Katamari, Animal Crossings, Splinter Cell). Aside from better graphics, wireless features, and online play, the next-gen consoles are offering the same kind of fun. I want to try something new that's actually fun. At least, Nintendo is promising to offer something different. It's pure hype now, but they did deliver a new way of interaction with the DS and motion-sensitive games. DDR and Sambo de Amigo were outstanding back when they first came out. Oddly enough, they made other "traditional" games more enjoyable when I finally went back to play them. I say give me more Warioware Twisted as I end up enjoying a pick up game of DOA3 or Halo 2 even more after taking a break from their tired, old formula.

joshd2012 08-23-05 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by jeffdsmith
I think the problem you run into on this forum is that everyone here, except maybe you, recognizes the fact that you would never get behind a Nintendo product, regardless of what they did or showed, therefore your comment is empty and without any real substance.

I guess the fact that I have owned a SNES and GBA-SP (before the PSP) and still own a NES means nothing? I was actually a bigger Sega fan (Genesis, SegaCD, 32X, and GameGear) until they pissed me off with the 32X. I rag on Sega all the time, but because the diehard Sega fan doesn't exist anymore, I don't hear the kick back. Excuse me if I'm skeptical after Nintendo's last two consoles turned out mediocre at best. I may purchase a Revolution, they are going to have to greatly exceed my expectations.


You have continually shown a natural disposition to knock any product or idea from MS or Nintendo while at the same time glazing over every Sony fault as if they arn't real or are taken completely out of context.
I admit to many Sony faults (including their lack of a structured online service and lack of built in ethernet for the PS2), but I'm not going to criticize Sony just because they are the industry leader. Like I've said before, its generally accepted as OK to attack the industry leader, even if that attack is trivial at best. Just because I think complaining about the PS2 only have two controller ports is reaching for bashing material, doesn't mean I ignore all mistakes.


Perhaps the difference in opinions is that many people on this forum are interested in games and preserving the integrity of quality gameplay. To me, you appear to be much more concerned with features, graphics, buzz, hype, smoke and mirrors, etc. Then again, like most conflicts in life, this is likely a lack of communication. Simply put, many people here value a different type of gaming experience.
This is the exact type of comment I would expect form Pixy, not you. Everyone attacks Sony and Microsoft for "ruining" gaming. Some of the most innovative stuff comes out on Sony and Microsoft consoles, yet get get slammed for making them a commercial sucess. EyeToy was the most innovative controller this generation - a Sony product. Blinx, while it might not have been a great game, did use the HDD in a new way - a Microsoft product. The assumption by Nintendo fans that anything done by Sony or Microsoft can't be innovative is rediculous.


Here's a case and point: What has Sony shown that makes the PS3 so great?

In your mind you are likely formulating examples of new graphic possabilities, new features of communication and linux servers, incredible developer support, etc. To a Nintendo fan these things often mean very little (depending on the person).
I've seen hardware which makes it easier for developers to make games beautiful and functional. Let's face it, developers can't sell games that look like Mario Brothers no matter how innovative the gameplay is. The easier the machine works to make the game beautiful, the less time the developer has to spend on graphics and the more time they can't spend on gameplay. That is what I see that's so great.


What a Nintendo fan wants is solid, new, and innovative gameplay; the same advancements Nintendo has been pushing for decades. This is the "hype" Nintendo fans are looking for, for the promise of another level of gaming experience; just as the generation before it raised gaming, they look to the next generation to do the same.
This is where I don't get Nintendo fans. Argueably the most innovative gameplay this generation was GTA3. Why? Because it gave gamers something they hadn't played before, and it appealed to millions of people. This wasn't a game like Amplitude (Sony again) which couldn't crack the 1 Million selling point. Everyone either played or knew about GTA3. Now that its selling rediculous numbers and people are copying the design, you now don't call it innovative? Success does not remove innovation.

Will Nintendo provide innovative games on the Revolution? Sure. Will Sony and Microsoft? You bet! This idea that Nintendo is the only platform for innovation is rediculous.


In my opinoin, everyone is saying the same thing just in different languages and with different beliefs on how gaming will and can be truely advanced.
Very true.

jeffdsmith 08-23-05 11:38 AM

joshd, notice I refered to all groups (except you) as a thrid party. I did not include myself in any group by using the word "I, me, or we". I think we all know where my loyalities lye though. :lol:

Josh H 08-23-05 12:23 PM


Originally Posted by joshd2012

Nintendo needs to put their cards on the table to create buzz.

They will. It's at least still 6 months (and probably a year or more) away from launch.

They don't need buzz for the Nintendo fans who'll buy every console they put out.

Adn they know no one other than Nintendo fans will buy a revolution INSTEAD of a PS3 or 360. Thus they can afford to hold off on generating buzz as the buzz will simply serve to entice people to buy a Revolution as a second or third console.

Josh H 08-23-05 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by joshd2012
This is where I don't get Nintendo fans. Argueably the most innovative gameplay this generation was GTA3. Why? Because it gave gamers something they hadn't played before, and it appealed to millions of people. This wasn't a game like Amplitude (Sony again) which couldn't crack the 1 Million selling point. Everyone either played or knew about GTA3. Now that its selling rediculous numbers and people are copying the design, you now don't call it innovative? Success does not remove innovation.

I can only speak for myself, and not all nintendo fans.

I don't deny a game like GTA3 is innovative. I just simply hated it. I don't generally like violent games. I hate open ended games. Etc.

The type of innovation I want to see is games that are fun to just pick up and play and offer something I've not seen before. Nintendo, IMO, excells at that with games like Warioware Twisted and Donkey Jungle Beat.

There are some unique games on the other systems, and that's why I have all 3. Nintendo just has a larger quanity of games I find enjoyable simply because I've always found them to be the best developer for my tastes.

I also won't say that Sony and MS are ruining the industry. It just happens that the no-talent developers that are ruining the industry put out games primarily on their console. These are the developers without an original thought in their heads that just make knockoffs of GTA and other popular games and never attempt anything innovative. That's the problem with the industry, and that's not tied to any of the console makers but is a problem with "get rich quick" development studios.

darkside 08-23-05 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by joshd2012
This is where I don't get Nintendo fans. Argueably the most innovative gameplay this generation was GTA3.

I agree 110%. The GTA series was by far my favorite of this generation and they did change gaming forever. However, I have really never heard anyone say otherwise. Granted there was a debate at one time about Halo being a better or more important franchise, but I have never seen any serious thread by a so called "Nintendo Fan" the slammed GTA. Granted some people have posted that they personally didn't like the game, that happens with any game, but GTA is held in high regard on this forum.

Now that its selling rediculous numbers and people are copying the design, you now don't call it innovative? Success does not remove innovation.
Again, I don't remember this and I definitely remember it being mentioned many times how innovative and important that series is.

Will Nintendo provide innovative games on the Revolution? Sure. Will Sony and Microsoft? You bet! This idea that Nintendo is the only platform for innovation is rediculous.
Total agreement, but Nintendo is going about it in a much different way. It looks like Nintendo is taking more chances in design with their new handheld and console than the others. Chances that may end in disaster (the DS is definitely not doing as well in the US as Nintendo would want). Sony and Microsoft are taking much more traditional gaming routes. That is not a slam on them and in the long run they may be better for sticking closer to the norm.

I think part of the problem is most of the Nintendo fans are a lot more critical of Nintendo than you realize and you are a lot more defensive about Sony than you realize. I could list things I don't like all day about all three companies. None of them will ever be perfect.

For me its about software. My favorite console of the early 80's was the 2600 because of the software, my favorite console of the late 80's was the NES because of the software, my favorite console of the early 90's was the Genesis/Sega CD because of the software, my favorite console of the late 90's was the Playstation because of the software and my favorite console of the first half of this decade is the GameCube because of the software.

I also owned a Saturn, 3DO, SNES, N64, PS2 and Xbox during these periods because there were a few games I liked on those as well.

I'm don't blindly follow any company because none of them are close to perfect. However, I know the kind of games I like and whoever releases the most of those is going to get my money and my praise when its deserved.

joshd2012 08-23-05 01:08 PM

Those posts are exactly correct - its all a mater of personal opinion. Except when I state my opinion, its like I set aflame the holy cross of Nintendo. Then Pixy thinks he's being clever in saying my opinion is the same at it always has been - well no shit. Nintendo hasn't given gamers anything new since May. When exactly was my opinion supposed to change when there is absolutely no information on this console?

I do realize I'm begin defensive of Sony, but so what? I own three of the gaming devices and have been satisified with every one of them. I haven't owned a Nintendo product since SNES because of my disatisfaction with their previous two attempts. Am I supposted to forget this when I state my opinion?

Its as if you want me to forget my disappoint with Nintendo for the last 10 years when talking about the Revolution. Game companies don't get a clean slate but only once - when they release their first console. Until Nintendo can prove that they can design a console that appeals to me - which they haven't done yet with Revolution - I will continue to be skeptical of what the Revolution is and what it will do.

Josh H 08-23-05 01:19 PM

You just have to accept that Nintendo fans get tired of hearing the same complaints from the same member.

Just like I learned to tune out the MS fans who get annoyed about me bitching about my dissatifaction with my X-box, the 360 price etc.

If you're going to post dissenting opinions repeatedly, you have to be able to take the heat.

joshd2012 08-23-05 01:23 PM


Originally Posted by Josh Hinkle
You just have to accept that Nintendo fans get tired of hearing the same complaints from the same member.

Just like I learned to tune out the MS fans who get annoyed about me bitching about my dissatifaction with my X-box, the 360 price etc.

If you're going to post dissenting opinions repeatedly, you have to be able to take the heat.

I can take the heat. It others who call on the mods...

I understand completely though. They are probably just as tired of my negative comments about Nintendo as I am of their empty posts about the greatness of Nintendo. :D

Josh H 08-23-05 01:27 PM

Well, to be fair. If the mods step in and warn you, you've probably crossed the console bashing line.

Your posts in this thread are fine. Posts I've seen you warned by mods for were different than these as they were 1) in threads not discussing things like this and 2) weren't intelligent opinons so much as posts just bashing Nintendo.

Keep your posts to well stated opinions like you have here, and you'll be fine with the mods. :D Though keep your flame suit on for the rebuttals. :D

Josh H 08-23-05 01:28 PM

Oh, and if you're sick of hearing praise for Nintendo, it would be best just to stay out of Nintendo's threads since you don't own a gamecube and probably won't buy a 360.

I bitched a lot about the X-box, but at least I owned one. :D

jediwicz 08-23-05 02:22 PM

Hinkle's correct in saying at least he's owned the console he's dissing. The point is that by not playing games on those systems (GCN and 64) you are narrowing your experience with great games, some of the best games of the last decade. How the fuck can you seriously rag on Nintendo and not own one of their past two home consoles joshd2012?

So you've missed the innovation of Mario 64 and Nintendo's stolen analog control? You've missed Zelda: OOT with it's rumble feature? You've missed the Gamecube with Animal Crossing, Eternal Darkness, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles/Zelda: Four Swords (which Sony will probably copy with the PSP), Metroid Prime, and Pikmin: all playable with the only first party wireless controller this generation.

When I make negative comments about a platform, you can be sure I own it or owned it. They are problems I have with my purchase. Example: the PSP, PS2, Playstation, Xbox. I own or have owned 'em. See a pattern, their not Nintendo. You'll find that most Nintendo fans are really open minded and we do own other systems beside Nintendo but it always comes back to the games and that is where Nintendo excells. Revolution will be profitable because of the games.

joshd2012 08-23-05 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by jediwicz
Hinkle's correct in saying at least he's owned the console he's dissing. The point is that by not playing games on those systems (GCN and 64) you are narrowing your experience with great games, some of the best games of the last decade. How the fuck can you seriously rag on Nintendo and not own one of their past two home consoles joshd2012?

Very simple. Nintendo lost me with the N64. They had to do something great again with the GC to pull me back in. That didn't happen. So now they have to do something great with Revolution to get me back. I don't have to own a Phantom to know I don't want one.

PixyJunket 08-23-05 03:14 PM

So why do you even bother posting here? You're obviously 120% concerned about hardware and -20% concerned with software. You don't care about games. Just let it go at that point. You don't want to play games, you want a shiny box with pretty numbers associated with it. Stick to dropping your Sony™ approved Press Releases into the PS3 thread and leave the rest alone so that the rest of us can be excited for the actual games coming out for these machines. Stop posting in Revolution threads because nobody here cares that the system won't be able to render Toy Story and Spider-Man 2 in real-time. We don't care how many "gigahertz" or "megabytes" it has. We don't care what kind of flip flops and sandals it is capable of. We are excited about the (already over-hyped) secret that has the possibility to add a bit more fun to the actual games. You aren't and you never will be.

Michael Corvin 08-23-05 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by joshd2012
I guess the fact that I have owned a SNES and GBA-SP (before the PSP) and still own a NES means nothing? .... Excuse me if I'm skeptical after Nintendo's last two consoles turned out mediocre at best. I may purchase a Revolution, they are going to have to greatly exceed my expectations.

So owning a NES, SNES and a Gameboy makes you qualified to rate the quality of the N64 and Gamecube? :hscratch: One has to actually own one and play the games to make an informed opinion about the overall quality of a console. Sounds like someone is appropriating a generalized opinion. Both systems had a stellar lineup, dozens of A+ quality games that you missed out on. Hell there were probably almost 2 dozen must own first party and Rare titles alone for the N64. You may think that the cartridge killed the system, but you missed a hell-of-a line-up of games because of it. Thinking about it, there were probably more great titles on the 64 than the GCN for me, and I love(d) both systems.

Jediwcz left out built in 4 player on the N64. Brilliant. Sure there were a handful of games prior that were 4 player, but do you think it would have been as big or as successful without that little innovation? That is a great example of designers being able to design a game KNOWING that the feature will be on all systems sold. Hell Sony still hasn't figured it out, only putting 2 ports on the PS2, WTF? N64 was the party system. Sure Halo/Halo 2 has taken that to the next level, but that is about where it ends with the Xbox for party games. N64 had many great party games to choose from. What about Turok? Only available for the N64, revolutionized control for FPS. A direct parent of the dual analog control scheme.

I haven't owned any Sony system since there have only been a handful of titles that interested me, so you know what? I haven't visited or posted in a single Sony thread. That is the way it goes.

*edit - I take that back I posted once about how the PS3 looked like the Foreman grill. God that picture was classic.

The Franchise 08-23-05 03:59 PM

Wow this thread has really gone over to the dark side.

Anyway, I read on a few sites that the revolution controller is going to have some sort of gyroscope with feedback technology that will provide resistance thereby emulating friction of some sort. Sort of like those exercise balls that you have to spin real hardand then hold in place (if you know what I'm talking about).

See story below from CVG:

OMG!! THE REVOLUTION SECRET IS OUT!!!

Well, US publication Computer Games Magazine seems to think so at least. Scepticism inside!

15:14 Okay, we're offering this one to you like a plate of sick, gingerly fingering the fetid concoction toward you like we'd really rather be doing something else. Yes, it's Revolution controller news and yes, we'd usually rather shave our pubes with the arse-end of a lawn mower than fling anymore rumour-nure on the pile, but this one comes from a source more reliable than most, so, you know.

According to an article in US publication Computer Games Magazine (we were just about to congratulate them on their no-nonsense title when we remembered where we work), the Revolution controller's big secret is... wait for it... tilt resistance.

Simply, this combines a gyroscopic sensor with a couple of balanced rotating weights - a bit like those that create standard controller rumble action. When you tip the controller in a particular direction the weights whiz into action, creating enough inertia to take your hands clean off in an ejaculating geyser of gushing blood. Okay, so that last bit was a lie. What actually happens is: the inertia prevents you from tipping the controller any further.

We're not going to speculate on the potential applications of such a device at present, although we quite like the idea of a manufacturing defect causing Revolution controllers worldwide to shoot out of gamers' hands and knock their teeth out.

However, the magazine article does suggest that the reason Nintendo hasn't been forthcoming with its wobble resistant controller is that it's "trying to make this work with wireless controllers, finding the optimal trade-off between spinning the widgets fast enough to produce a good, strong effect and keeping the controller from eating batteries too quickly."

Also, Nintendo doesn't want Sony and Microsoft nicking its ideas either.

At this point in time, we're quite happy to put the latest rumours on the "feasible" pile, along with touch-screen, gyroscopic tip-ability, user-moldable buttons and a giant nipple labelled "twiddle". Still, if this story turns out to be true, we absolutely believed it from the start.

PixyJunket 08-23-05 04:07 PM

Yeah, the gyro idea has been the current front-runner since Nintendo debunked the theory of a touch screen controller. After playing Wario Ware Twisted I'm down with the idea as that game is insanely fun. Hopefully if this is what it ends up being it's built into a more standard controller, that way the technology can be used on top of existing controller technology (much like vibration features).

Still, as they said.. it's just more unconfirmed gabble to throw into the already large pile of "what-ifs."

jediwicz 08-23-05 04:35 PM

The tilt-feedback feature would work real well as way to control the camera. Much was touted over Nintendo's "forced perspective" patent. Could the two be related?

darkside 08-23-05 04:36 PM

The gyro, if true, would again depend on the games. If they can back up the gyro with some quality software to make it more than a gimmick I can see the potential.

I know as a gamer when I play FPS games or racers I'm always tilting the controller even though it isn't going to actually do anything (I guess in my mind I think I'm going to move left faster if I move the controller left).

It would be nice if in a FPS you could move your character forward with the control stick and tilt the controller to take place of the right stick (I personally strugle with the right stick when playing). It would seem very natural to simply tilt the controller to look around and aim.

I see potential here, but as with the DS I can also see it tossed in as a gimmick instead of getting used properly in some games.

Again, if this is even true.

I'm wondering if they will go back to more of a N64 button layout (maybe not the original stick in the middle design, but with 1 stick, six action buttons and with top triggers) but with the gyro taking the place of the R stick on current consoles?


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