Anyone remember the movie with Damon Wayans and Bruce Willis? The Last Bou Scout?

Sega could just use their engine and make a Grand Theft Football game?

Complete with guns, steroids, beer bottles, fan fights, prostitues as cheerleaders, and bookies so you can bet on the games.

I'm still buying ESPN no matter what and even if they names aren't in the game there are ways of loading that information in with an Action Replay device. SOme people do the dirty work and all you have to do is download the rosters. That's how I complete my ESPN College Hoops 2K5 rosters.

EA Already makes crap football games. Lets hope 2k5 does roster updates for the rest of time !!! EA tried pulling a Vince McMahon, when competiton gets too close the only way to beat them is TO buy them out. Does anyone think ESPN 2K5 will remain online for a couple yrs? Or will it shut down when Madeen comes out next yr?

A little commentary from gamesindustry.biz
 

Weekly Update

16/12/2004

Europe has never really embraced the American sports, which might explain why so few people here have paid much attention to the extraordinary struggle which has taken place in North America in the past six months between Electronic Arts and Take Two Interactive - one which ended with a shock announcement this week that has left much of the industry in the USA reeling.

For those who haven't been following the history, Take Two signed a deal with SEGA earlier this year which made the two companies into co-conspirators on the ESPN series of sports games, which have been the main rivals to the EA Sports pantheon for some time - albeit existing in a very distant second place to their competitor.

The new alliance produced one key idea - dropping the prices of all its ESPN titles to $19.99 in order to grab market share and put pressure on EA, which continued to stick firmly to the line that there was no need for a budget price point in the sports market. NPD sales data proved Take Two's point, though; the ESPN games gained significant ground on EA, and eventually, last month, the publishing giant was forced to drop its own prices in order to ensure that it remained on top of the field in the run up to Christmas.

It was hardly the massive defeat for EA that some commentators have chosen to characterise it as, but it was certainly a nasty knock - proving that with solid titles, aggressive pricing and good marketing, the industry leader can be challenged even on its most secure home territory. Or so we all thought - but events this week have showed that EA is not the largest publisher in the games industry for no reason, and that it's not afraid to use its size to crush competitors when they become a threat to its dominance.

A joint announcement from Electronic Arts and the National Football League revealed that EA has opened its purse strings and signed up an exclusive five year deal with the NFL and with its Players' Association, effectively locking all of the company's competitors out of making NFL games for that period - which extends well into the life cycle of the next generation consoles. The deal must easily have been one of the most expensive in EA's history, but given the prize at stake - namely the exclusive rights to the most popular sport in the USA - the stock market judged the (undisclosed) price to be worth it, and EA's share price rocketed on the news.

The move is a stunning one - a clearer and more comprehensive end to the battle with Take Two simply could not be imagined. In one fell swoop, EA has demonstrated that it is the most powerful and dangerous company in the industry, destroying its competitors product ranges with the sheer power of its wallet. Reaction to the deal, unsurprisingly, has been largely negative - however clever it may be in business terms, there's a distinct feeling that winning the sports game battle by pulling the rug out from under a competitor's feet in this way effectively amounts to bully-boy tactics on EA's part.

Take Two, in particular, is furious at the deal, pointing out in a strongly worded statement this week that the people who will suffer in the end will be consumers, who will be denied a decent choice in the NFL game genre for the next half-decade, and the NFL themselves, who may well find themselves tied to EA in a not entirely advantageous way when the deal finishes in five years time, since it's quite possible that no other publisher will be interested in picking up the reins at that point given the cost of developing a new NFL game series from scratch.

Naturally, when Take Two talks about consumer choice, what it really means is "the consumer's choice to give money to us rather than to EA," but the firm has a point regardless. This year's battle drove software prices down and, if extended for a couple more years, would probably have led to significant innovation and development in the American football game genre. While the falling prices don't help the industry much - and can't seem attractive to the NFL either, which may have provided some impetus for the EA deal - both of these now-eliminated factors are good for consumers.

Left to its own devices, with no competitors and only its own previous games to top in the quality stakes, both the pricing and the quality of the NFL games could well suffer. EA wins either way - but both the NFL and its fans may find themselves wishing that they'd seen past the software giant's chequebook and allowed the market to be driven by healthy competition, not by purchased monopoly.


Chris

Thats a very good article. I dont play/buy sports games, but my brothers do, and I agree this news stinks bad. I guess I havn't really followed news/opinions on EA for awhile- are they pretty hated in general? I just remember them for Medal of Honor on PS1 (which I've just started Rising Sun and its awful) and SSX Tricky which I liked. I really liked that ESPN had the really low price point (because I won't pay $50 for a game) and forced a battle, but the outcome stinks for them and the fans. Hopefully something can be worked out.....

The scary part of this is what happens next? Does EA make attempts to make similar deals with MLB, NBA, NHL ??? It certainly could happen.

I guess it is ok to have a monopoly in this business segment. For the next 5 years, its Madden or nothing. Seems to me that it would not be legal to do this.

Sega is hard at work trying to sign exclusive deals with the NBA and MLB. Maybe this will make them flinch.

I've always preferred the gameplay of Madden to the Sega games (including this year), however, I've always purchased and played the hell out of both games. While not the disasterous news that some are talking about, it's not exactly good news either. I guess in a dream scenario, EA could hire some of Take Two's staff and create a game that plays like Madden, but looks like, and has the slick interface of 2Kx. But that's just a football game fantasy...

I doubt anyone could cry "Monopoly" since it is within the NFL's rights to choose who they license themselves to. Just because WWE doesn't allow two different companies to do two different wrestling games on the same system doesn't mean that they created a monopoly, right?

There are two things I dread:
1. EA (or anyone but Sega, really) grabs the NBA license. I like NFL 2K, but I can live with Madden... I can't live with NBA Live, though. It's improving, but IMHO ESPN is just so much better. It would mean no more NBA Street, though...
2. Microsoft or Sony or someone besides EA or Sega gets an exclusive license for one of the major sports. If 989 was the only company making sports games, I'd cry.

Wow. This deal is really, really shitty. Thankfully, and I say this not to throw salt in anyone's wounds, but thankfully, EA got this deal and not Sega. I would have absolutely died if I would have had to play ESPN Football, and Madden was nowhere in sight. I understand that there is a great deal of people on the opposing side that feel the exact same way, and I feel for them. I really hope this doesn't stretch into the NBA or NCAA...

That would be a nightmare.

This to me this is not a issue whether Madden or ESPN is better, The issue is this is a monopoly agreement. Let the consumer decide which to buy. With EA taking over the waterhole, What's to stop them from passing on the cost of this purchase on to the consumer and what about competition? I have never seen Madden and NBA LIVE price drop so fast. I tell you this don't expect to have such a quick drop next year.


Sega/Take-two should take EA/NFL to court to kill this contract. I just don't understand why the NFL would want to cutoff SEGA. It's better to have two customers instead of one lone customer.

Not really a big football game fan, but I always did prefer the NFL 2k# series, too bad.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../nfl_midway_dc

Midway Developing Mature-Rated Football Video Game

Thu Dec 16,12:53 PM ET Entertainment - Reuters

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Midway Games Inc. plans to publish a "mature"-rated pro football video game with the kinds of violence and excess shunned by the National Football League, the company said on Thursday.

The game, called "Blitz: Playmakers," is being designed with the help of a writer from the now-canceled ESPN series "Playmakers," which the NFL condemned for its behind-the-scenes portraits of player drug use and mayhem.

Since the NFL granted an exclusive license to video games rival Electronic Arts Inc., Midway said, it can create its own football game that stretches the limits of what video game players have seen before from sports titles.

"No longer bound to the NFL license, there will be no league restrictions on content and gamers will finally experience what makes playing a football video game really fun: off-field controversies, dirty hits, excessive celebrations and much more," Midway marketing chief Steve Allison said in a statement.

"Blitz: Playmakers," featuring a fictional league and fictional teams and players, is scheduled for release in the fourth quarter of 2005, a Midway spokesman said.

On Monday, EA, the NFL and the marketing arm of its players' union announced a five-year deal that gives EA the exclusive right to NFL player names and likenesses, team names and colors, and stadiums.

The deal came after EA's "Madden NFL" pro football game franchise faced its first serious challenge in years, from the "ESPN NFL 2K5" game from Sega Sammy Holdings and Take-Two Interactive Software Inc.

By pricing their game at $20 as against $50 for "Madden," Sega and Take-Two were able to garner a market share of about 40 percent this year on a units-sold basis, far better than ever before. In response, EA cut its prices on sports games sharply, which helped "Madden" sales last month.

Midway previously held an NFL license, though it did not produce a football game this year. Its "Blitz" franchise was long the edgiest of all the NFL-licensed games, though the last version sold poorly after the league cracked down on Midway and the company toned the game down.


Chris

Again, while I agree with the sentiment, I don't see how you can legally prove that they're creating a monopoly. They're not preventing people from creating other videogames, or even other football games, just games based on their license, and they can do whatever they want with their license. If the NFL wanted to sign an exclusive television deal with, say, Spike TV, and didn't allow NFL games to be broadcast anywhere else, there's nothing stopping them from doing it. It wouldn't be a wise decision, but they can do what they like. Am I misunderstanding the law, here?

Midway. :lol:

I'm sure people will be scrambling to make NCAA Football games next season... That's all they can hope to do.

I have always been a huge fan of Madden but I think that NFL2K was the best thing that ever happenned to Madden because it forced them to step it up.

Hopefully the loss of the license will do the equivalent for NFL2K. No one has said that GTA sucks because they don't use licensed cars (okay, I underestimate fanboy rants, but nobody outside of these types of forums...).

Winning Eleven is a great soccer game and it needs to be since it doesn't have the license that FIFA has. I would prefer to play it any day over FIFA even though I can't play with the true teams unless I buy an Action Replay or devote way too much time into the custom edit.

I'm guessing that as long as SEGA can outlast the initial financial impact, the quality of their game will improve tremendously out of videogame darwinism.

Eh, I don't know. ESPN NFL was already a distant second to Madden... I'm sure they put in all the resources they could to make that game better just to compete. I'm not sure that they can make the game that much better to make up for the loss of the license... if they could, they would've done so while they still had it, since it wasn't like they could sit back on their heels.

Isn't the NFL players union a separate entity from the NFL? I can see them signing some player to frontline their games. What would really be bad is if Sega signs the players union to an exclusive contract... either that, or ESPN NFL Europe, or ESPN Arena Football. Ugh.

What I find interesting about the article above is the speculation that maybe Sega's price drop and ensuing price war turned the NFL off because of the loss of revenue, and how that may have played a part in the NFL's decision. That certainly makes logical sense, even if it is pure speculation.

Interesting...reminds me of NHLPA hockey for the Sega Genesis...no real team names or logos...the the colors and the real players.

Now if Sega could pull that off it would be quite a coup...I think most people out there would rather have the real players instead of the teams logo's and stadiums.

Why should they bother now? Here's a hint: they won't.

F EA.

Or maybe the opposite, maybe no NCAA games. Afterall, NCAA doesn't sell as well and always gets used football engines. Why pump money into something that doesn't sell well. More specifically I'm thinking of the next generation.

Wouldn't the NFL make more from a lower price? I'm assuming their license is a flat fee and the more games sold the more money they make?

It might be flat fee but when you look at some titles (like backyard football) you have to assume that they're not spending the same amount that EA is. My guess is that it's like record deals paying artists where some are flat fee and others are based on sales.

The deal includes the player's association. Sega would have to find a player not in it, or willing to give up his membership. He couldn't wear his uniform on the cover though.

So now EA has exclusive rights to:

The NFL and its players' association
James Bond
Harry Potter
the LOTR movies

am I missing any?

NASCAR and FIFA.

FIFA too? So they have the most popular sport in the US and the most popular sport in the rest of the world locked up?

And the PGA.

I don't think they have exclusive rights to the PGA

I think so, but I'm just going from memory. I think I read that in one of the recent stories about the NFL deal.

That's why ESPN/Sega/Take 2 would have to likely get a retired star like Elway, Marino, Montana, or Barry Sanders to headline the game, or maybe even Jerry Rice or if he retires after this year.

Interestingly, I just read on GameSpot that there's rumors at EA about them dropping the Madden license and just going with EA Sports NFL 200* in the future. Perhaps it could be ESPN Madden Football. That'd certainly be a strange twist.

With Madden being so particular when it comes down to details of the Madden series, I highly doubt he'd be apart of a game without real players. (Unless Bret Favre would retire and do the cover ;))

wow

I have no interest in the annual football game re-releases but i didn't think it was possible for one company to license something like this.

Wait... John Madden actually looks at the game before it comes out? I would have thought he just puts his name on it, and doesn't actually check it out...

Wasn't there a game called Joe Montana's football before?

Yep, I figured he did that too, just show up on the cover and do commentary. He actually plays apart in many aspects of the game as far as realism goes (stadiums, hits, animations, etc...) because he is arrogant and wouldnt allow his name on something that isnt up to his standards (that might be a stretch calling him arrogant but anywho). He takes it rather serious.

I believe that they do, or at least the majority of the players and events. Hence, no other golf games that have that stuff anymore. Kind of why golf games have gone downhill for the past several years other than the Links game for xbox. Tiger Woods is too unrealistic to be any sort of good golf game.

Taylor34

The original John Madden had no players names or teams, and I believe that Madden 64 didn't have real player names either.

Taylor34

things have changed considerably since then though

Madden 2005 for all consoles is $20 at Walmart now, including online.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2553917 for XBox
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2553894 for Gamecube
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=2553982 for PS2

Im glad Ive waited so long to get Madden, Ill now own both NFL 2005 games for 40 bucks this year.

Funny story: A friend of mine bought Madden 2005 when it first came out (regular edition - 50 bucks). He didnt like NFL 2K5 and only played Madden 2005 a few times so he kept playing Madden 2004 this whole time (40th year of his franchise) and kept Madden 2005 in the case never opening it or even peeling off the shrink wrap. Since then the game price continues to drop. He bought a $50 game and has held off playing til now it cost only 20 :lol:.

OK maybe not that funny but...

A couple of things hit me as I'm reading this. First off, EA is very smart but very short-sighted. This deal is killing them from a PR standpoint and it may cause them to lose more money by not being able to recoup the losses caused by the exclusivity agreement. All I play is sports game and at that I truly prefer the ESPN games so I'm extremely disappointed that this is what it has come to. What ever happened to making a superior product? I probably will not purchase Madden 2006 simply on principle, I may even trade in my X-box.

Some facts to clear up, ESPN & ABC are owned by Disney so they could have already pressured Madden for his name on the ESPN game and yes I've seen clips where Madden sits in development, in particular I remember Dante Hall telling Madden specifically that he was under-rated on the game and it got fixed. I believe EA has a contract to keep Madden's name on the game through 2008. Madden 64 was generic, I dont remember if it had NLFPA licensing but I distinctly remember there were no NFL teams, logos, or identical colors(similar but not identical). As for the other leagues, I doubt anyone is dying to buy up the NHL license. And on this example, why buy the NBA or MLB license? Unlike the NFL, their unions have gone on strike in recent years and then you would lose at least interest in 1 game if not the game itself. The NFL is the most stable of the "4 major" sports for now, more on this later. There is a reason why many people say the NFL aka No Fun League is the most powerful organization in the country. The NFLPA, TV networks, DirecTV, etc. are relatively powerless and generally play the bridesmaid in every decision made by the NFL. And it is really making some money now, the networks, radio stations, and DirecTV have re-upped in recent weeks. As for the price, I doubt there will be any increase in price because at a certain point your price will exclude so many customers that there will be no profit. We may see an increase to see how much people are willing to pay but they will find their best price is where it is now, 49.99. Remember Madden is not competing with just ESPN, etc. but with GTA, Halo, and other videogames including older versions. Indirectly, they're competing with TV, movies, music, books, etc. so if they falter there will be plenty for people to do with their newfound extra time. So the game goes to 59.99, you'll buy GTA/Halo 2 and Madden 2001 or watch a new TV show/movie/etc. and be just as happy. Can you still use Windows 3.x? Yes but I doesnt have all the frills or support as the newer versions, same applies to Madden. I can still play Madden 2001 but there are inferior graphics, updated rosters, etc. So EA will still have to improve the game some to get people to buy it. One vaguely presented option is that EA what may really be after is contracting out the license. Maybe it will become "EA's ESPN Football" and Sega/VC pay EA for the rights to use the licensing. I'm not sure what EA's contract entails but I'm sure the NFL would not be happy b/c then EA would benefit from there being more authentic games and the NFL would be left out. Doesnt EA already use different developers for their NFL games? EA is more of publisher and distributor these days right? Maybe EA offers 3 or 4 different NFL games in the coming years instead of 2 (Madden and Street). If I remember correctly, Madden is more front-office driven, ESPN is more gameplay driven, and Street is more arcade driven. There's 3 completely different games. If EA were smart, this would be their next move. You could even have different broadcast crews: Madden and Michaels for Madden 2006, Sunday Night crew for EA's ESPN 2k6, and Jesse Ventura and the other guy from the XFL for NFL Street.

Here's the best play, you can have content but if you have no content provider(who really plays sports games on the computer?) you're screwed so what we need to do is let Sony and MS realize that EA is becoming a huge threat and get Sony and MS to exclude them from the next generation, competition benefits the manufacturers as well. I think there are many people who buy consoles purely to play football/sports games and if the only one out there is one we dont want to play why buy a console? Of course there will be a huge desire to cheat and lock up the company that owns the rights to several annual revenue cash cows, while I dont play them I would think the Harry Potter games make a little dough as well as LOTR. While on MS, this sounds just like something they would do doesnt it? Hopefully now MS realizes there is a 200-ton guerilla that impacts their business and will attempt to buy up Sega and especially Visual Concepts and make a run to lock up the NBA and wait for the EA deal to expire while developing a great football game to hold us "fanboys" over and then outbid EA for the NFL even though I'd still prefer competition. And for those of you thinking I'm implying that MS force Sega and VC to only release for X-box(2), I'm not because you can make a lot more money selling games across 2+ consoles than just 1.

However this may be in our best interests, word is that the NFL and the NFLPA are on very opposite ends of the table when it comes to the next agreement. This deal limits the players opportunities to make some extra money marketing games, only one coverboy for Madden each year, and this deal could anger the union a little more. Which could make the next exclusive agreement difficult to negotiate.

How long until EA buys Sony, MS, Nintendo, or decides to create their own console? I guess MS is not the biggest problem in this market afterall. Holy crap this is long, sorry I'm just a little irate.