young

anyone have one of these? does it switch s-video to component?

http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=801668

TheMadMonk

Can't say for sure, but I would doubt it.

~~ PAL ~~

According to the BB ads it does. But it's probably safest to go and check it in person yourself.

Incidentally, isn't there a $20 gift card offer when you buy the selector ($99) plus another game at BB this week?

young

thanks, pal. i didn't even scan this week's bestbuy ad so i didn't realize that there was a deal going on w/ it.

it's a $25 gift card w/ the purchase of a game from a list that includes soul calibur, true crime, etc.

i was going tonight to go get fire emblem anyway so i'll check it out tonight.

fab

I have one of these, it's pretty sweet. Probably the best $100 I've spent in a long while.

It does not convert S-Video to Component or vice-versa.

It has 8 (!) sets of inputs (7 on the back, 1 on the front) which include component, s-video and composite, plus stereo. Three of the inputs also include optical audio and ethernet. The ethernet does not act as any kind of a network hub/switch, it only acts as a regular switch (on/off).

It also includes backlit labels for most a/v components and video game systems, however it doesn't include Dreamcast.. boo to them for that.

Anyway, I've tested it extensively and see no degradation in quality for the output to my Television, I use progressive scan for the games that support it on XBOX, GameCube and PS2 and all of them look as good as it did when connected directly to my TV.

The only thing that would make this unit perfect would be either a remote or auto-sensing capability, however that would probably jack up the price considerably.

--
fab

tonyc3742

Sweet...I've been asking for one of these at the local stores, and everyone shook their heads, then I see it in the Best Buy ad this week, and in Gamepro this month.
My HDTV only has one set of component inputs, and I'd like to plug in the DVD player and the HD cable box [right now I have to swap cables annoyingly.]
The only other one I've seen is
http://www.smarthome.com/7772.html
which is autosensing, but only has 4 inputs, is only component video, stereo audio, and digital audio. Also it's 180 bucks, versus this Pelican which seems to do a heck of a lot more, for a heck of a lot less. Might have to pick it up tomorrow when I head back to BB. Thanks for the consumer review. The one negative I see is that it passes through audio through RCA jacks or optical, right? My two cable boxes have coax digital sound [or whatever the thing other than optical is,] whereas my HTreceiver is optical.
Semi-related note: How many PS2 games take advantage of component video/progressive output? Is it a noticeable improvement? [I'm still slogging through some PS1 and DC games {replaying Grandia 2 for one}].

GatorDeb

If I have a normal curved TV, nothing fancy, will using component cables as opposed to composite help the video quality? I never looked much into the stuff because the TV only does coaxial and composite so I thought that would be as good as I would get.

Joshic

Does anyone know what the component video bandwidth is for the Pelican System Selector Pro? I can't find this info anywhere, and this is pretty crucial info if one is going to be using it to switch HD component video. Some people say stuff like, "I don't see any picture degradation." But eyes can be deceiving, and some people pick out discrepancies better than others. I wouldn't buy it unless I had some reliable, accurate numbers on the bandwidth capabilities of the component video ports.

How much bandwidth should you have? As with everything in life, there's no clear answer... A 1080i signal requires as much as 27MHz of bandwidth, so 30MHz is usually enough. But it depends...

on how the manufacturer measures it. If they claim 0dB across the 30MHz, then yes you will pass the whole signal. But if they claim something like -3dB, then probably there's some loss (up to 30%) within that 30MHz frequency range.

Found this link in avsforum:
http://www.zektor.com/hds4/componentvideo.htm

There are some component video switchers that claim to switch HD, but only have an advertised bandwidth of 10Mhz. Clearly a waste of money to buy stuff like that. There are also A/V receivers that claim to switch component video, but are rated at less than 30Mhz bandwidth.

Be careful when shopping for component video switchers. Get the bandwidth numbers before you buy.

A good link to info about other quality component video switchers:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/interfaces/switches.html

tonyc3742

My understanding [please correct me if I'm wrong] is that you are limited to the 'quality' of the lowest-level signal. In your case, your tv has coax and composite, so 'upgrading' to component [or even S-video] would not matter, because it has to 'downmix' [not the right term, I know] the signal to pass it through the composite or, worst-case, coax.
My upstairs tv only has coax, and only my VCR has a coax output, so everything there has to run through an RCA/red/yellow/white switchbox [ten bucks from EB two years ago], then into the vcr, then to the tv. This Pelican, AFAIK, would do me absolutely no good in that situation.

Joshic

If you only have composite and coax inputs on your TV, then component cables will do nothing to improve picture quality. But maybe you should consider buying a TV with at least a S-video input. You have no idea how much you're missing if you're using composite video.

tonyc3742

That's a good point. After a lot of searching, the best horses mouth info I found was

System selector Pro

Well, I submitted a request for more technical info to their Support department. I saw this unit at Best Buy yesterday, but didn't think to look for any detailed tech numbers.

Fab: Do you still have the box, and/or instruction manual, and is there any technical info therein?



but it is lacking on the actual technical info. But I wouldn't really know what to look for anyway....I'll have to explore that Keoho...Last time I did, most of the products were outside my budget : (

young

i'm still a little mixed... i'm thinking maybe i should just invest the $100 on a better receiver since my current one is a bit dated (no DTS, etc).

Dah-Dee

Joshic and dtcarson, excellent discussion and something in which I've also been interested. CharlieK over at Home Theater Forum posted a couple of days ago that he bought the Pelican unit at Best Buy: "After a couple of hours of fighting with my jungle of cables I got everything hooked up and checked out Discovery Theatre. The unit does indeed pass a 1080i signal. I'm pretty sure the quality is as good as a direct connection. I will do more testing and try to post the results or respond to anyone's questions." He also said: "It does not state anywhere in the manual the component bandwidth, but the front of the box specifically says "featuring HIGH DEFINITION component video"."

So it apparently does have bandwidth sufficient to pass a true HD signal.

He also listed a number for Pelican support, in case anyone wants to try to wrangle more specific info out of them: 1-800-331-3844

I recently bought the MadCatz HDTV Universal Selector for $30 at Gamestop and have the same question about bandwidth, although it looks okay with the Cube and dvd, but it's just a temporary solution anyway until I replace my receiver with one that has true component video switching.

Joshic

That's not good enough evidence for me. I still maintain my stance that I need to see technical data before I qualify it as truly HD compatible.

As an example, look at another component video switcher, the JVC JXS111, available at amazon.com. A reviewer on that site wrote, "It allows you to hook up several component electronics to your HDTV with little signal loss, meaning that pictures will look just as good on your HDTV." The product is also advertised as a "HD Compatible Component Video Switcher." But if you look up the techinical specs on it, you'll find that the video frequency response maxes at 10Mhz - clearly not high enough bandwidth for HD video.

And look at the back of Xbox game cases. A lot of them say "HDTV 480p", when we all know that HDTV is a designation that is reserved for 720p and 1080i only. And yet they advertise the games as "HDTV." So, just because the Pelican switcher says that it's HD, doesn't necessarily make it so, unless the bandwidth numbers are there to back it up.

Joshic

Also, I'm very suspicious of why Pelican is not advertising the actual component video bandwidth. Do the designers really NOT know what the video frequency response is? Of course not. You'd think that if the bandwidth really was >= 30Mhz (the bare minimum for HD), they'd be proud of the fact and list the actual specs as a feature. Since it's not listed and seems to be so hard to find, I'm thinking they know that the bandwidth is not up to HD spec and are afraid that if they advertise it, people won't buy it.

Josh H

They're not advertising likely because it's not really aimed at hard core videophiles that actually know waht component video bandwith is. Those people probably already have more expensive switchers, or top of the line A/V receivers with enough inputs.

It's more for gamers with HDTV's, than videophile perse, as it's made by a video game accessory company.

But you'd think they'd at least put the info in the manual for those that know/care.

edstein

You are going to get what you pay for here. This device looks to be designed to switch game systems that use component video. Don't let the HD buzz words fool you. With that said, I still would like to get this device. My 65" Mits has 3 component video inputs but, my receiver only has 2 digital inputs (1 coax, 1 optical). With this unit I can switch my xbox, ps2, dvd, and hd reciever audio and video with one button. I can tolerate a reduction on the HD side for this price. I also received a $10 off $75 coupon in the mail this week good til the 11th. So this make the unit cheaper and I don't have to buy one of those games to get the $25 off.

GatorDeb

Got this, LOTR: ROTK (PS2) and Fire Emblem for $147.29 AFTER taxes.

Going to hook up XBOX, PS2, GC, TiVo 1, TiVo 2, and DVD Player to this. Right now one TiVo is being unused because I only had a 4-changer, and for the second TiVo you had to go through the DVD Player. Now each can have their own

tonyc3742

Joshic: I'll admit I'm apparently not as much a videophile as you. What bandwidth or frequency response or whatever "should" a tool like this be able to pass through? And actually, I don't even know why that's important--I thought things like mHz and kHz were used for measuring audio wavelengths. [If a response would drag down the thread into technospeakland, feel free to IM me or direct me to an offsite link.]

For me, currently, my main conflict is the HD cable box and prog scan DVD player. Seeing as how, when I was on satellite, an HD OTA receiver would run me at least 200 + antenna + install, I can rationalize this hundred bucks pretty easily, assuming it works even 2/3 as well as the opinions of it. And it came with a component cable, which probably saved 20 bucks [yes, I know it's not a Monster cable, but hopefully it'll be adequate.] Currently i'm moving plugs daily from my HD box to the DVD player and vice versa, and that's probably not good for the connections. Plus it's a PITA.

Anyway, I just got back from Best Buy, where I bought this, Finding Nemo, a Reward Zone membership, and a 170-DVD A/V rack....total cost, 160.37 plus tax [had 10% off coupon for Nemo, and the rack's MSRP was 70, but it was open box for 36.]

Also, I don't know if this is local, or what, and I didn't find out about it till the cashier said something, but apparently you get a free 10.00 gift card with '75$ or more purchase of video game accessories.' I know there was I think a 15.00 offer with the switcher and a game, but I don't have a next gen console yet, so that wouldn't do me any good.

Also: just got email back from 'Pelican Tech Support':

my question:
Regarding product number PL-957, the "Pro System Selector" found at

http://pelicanperformance.com/univer...ector_pop.html

What are the component video bandwidth capabilities on this unit?

Thank you.

their response:

"Resolution suggested:

It supports High Definiton signal bandwith signal

------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,

PelicanAcc.com"

just like that. Oooo--kay. Maybe I didn't ask the right question, but you'd think they could at least use a period. And spellcheck. And grammar check. At least they spelled Pelican right.

GatorDeb

Well they did put signal in twice but I see no spelling mistakes

tonyc3742

Definiton
bandwith

I admit, I'm anal about spelling. I'm not going to be a spelling nazi on a bulletin board, but I try to spell correctly, and when someone is representing a company, they surely need to spell correctly, IMHO.

GatorDeb

Heh you're right I missed those

Their manual looks like it was by a middle-schooler. There are NO specs whatsoever. Why don't you email them back asking them for the MHZ?

Joshic

Did you check the link I posted in a previous post on this thread?
http://www.zektor.com/hds4/componentvideo.htm
There is a nice chart at the bottom of the page that gives you the minimum bandwidth you need for each resolution.

Here is another link that gets more technical:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm...mber/750/ln/en

But the short answer is that you want at least 30Mhz. My Yamaha receiver was advertised as having HD compatible switching, and in the manual it says it has 30Mhz bandwidth. I play it on the safe side and use it only to switch b/t my Gamecube & PS2 (both of which can only do 480p). I'm picky about video quality & didn't want to risk signal loss. My Xbox is connected directly to my TV, and my STB is connected directly to my TV via DVI cable. The Denon 3803 is an excellent A/V Receiver that has component video switching at higher bandwidth: 100Mhz. It also has a scalar, which converts composite and s-video into component.

As for your question about why Mhz is used for video bandwidth, the short answer is that component video (as well as s-video and composite) is transmitted as an analog signal. It's not like computer data, which is digital and can be measured in bits/second. Hz is used to measure analog signals, whether they be audio or video. Why is video an analog medium? Well, then we get into a discussion about CRT tubes and how they work by scanning a certain # of lines/sec, etc. Blah blah. long discussion. But what's important to know is that since video is transmitted in the analog realm with component video, there is a lot of room for signal loss. That's why if you copy an analog signal over & over again (as in a cassette tape), eventually you lose a ton of quality. But in a digital medium (like a music CD), you don't lose anything because it's all in 0s and 1s. So this is why it's important to make sure that you have no weak links in an analog system, such as component video. Hopefully in the future we will soon move to DVI for all video, and we won't have to spend any more money on expensive video cables, since digital signals don't require all that shielding from interference that analog-signal-carrying cables are susceptible to.

Did that kinda make sense? Sorry it's late Friday afternoon and I really want to get out of work & go home!

tonyc3742

Wow, heavy duty. Friday night and I'm exhausted, my brain'll explode if I try to read [and understand] all that right now ; )
But I will check it out.

I'm reading the reviews/previews of this thing on EBGames.com, and someone says this:

"If you guys just need component switching you don''t need this. You can use any standard 3 input RCA switcher to do component. You simply use the audio input/output as another video and wallah you have 3 videos to do component switching. I''m doing that with my Xbox/Ps2 and Gamecube and the picture is just great on my HDTV."

Is this true? What makes a 'component cable' different from a regular RCA Audio/Audio/Video cable [red/white/yellow]? And on that note, my TV has a 'HD Component Input' and a 'Regular Component Input'. If I plugged something into that 'Regular' input, that wasn't 'high definition', would it look noticeably better than using S-video [which I am now] [ie, the regular digital cable box, for instance]. What if I ran something that's non-HD through my HD component input? Would it upconvert, or be all messed up [that's a technical term, that is.]?

Dah-Dee

I went back and edited my original post, before you quoted it, to add that quote about the front of the box. I based my "apparently" statement on the customer's statement that it handled his 1080i signal. I don't know that that means it's really high-def capable, which is why I said "apparently." That's also why I added the Pelican support #; if anybody should know, it'd be them, right? I'm still curious to hear what additonal info y'all are able to gather on this product, whether or not it's really got sufficient bandwidth, unlike the JVC product you mentioned (and the Kenwood 7070 receiver I previously considered but rejected as an upgrade due to its similarly limited component video bandwidth).