Microsoft Turns to IBM for Next Xbox Chip
11-05-03 | 03:32 PM
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Not sure of the validity of this source but he definitely brings up some interesting points
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12523
_________________________________________________
"Xbox2 vies with PS3 technology
One ring to rule them all
By Arron Rouse: Wednesday 05 November 2003, 16:57
THERE'S SOMETHING STRANGE about Microsoft's choice of IBM to make its processors for the Xbox 2. You might think that it's a reasonable choice but it brings up more questions than most analysts are going to be comfortable with. Many have immediately jumped on the idea that the Xbox 2 will use a PowerPC variant processor at its heart but that's far from the only option. The biggest spanner in the works could be the Sony/Toshiba/IBM Cell processor.
The most curious thing about the choice of IBM is that the firm is already producing processors for Nintendo and is designing the next generation of 'Cell' processors for the Playstation 3. So IBM effectively knows what all of the key players are up to, something that might not sit comfortably with the CEOs of the three main console firms.
Route G5
It's tempting to think that IBM will be supplying Microsoft with a modified PowerPC chip for the Xbox 2. The new G5 series of 64bit processors being used in the latest Apple Macs certainly has shown good performance but there would be a huge number of problems for Microsoft in switching to that architecture.
Microsoft would need to port the latest version of its Xbox operating system to PowerPC; after all, even consoles need an operating system. That would be a large task just by itself. Then there are the problems of backwards compatibility, even the latest G5 probably couldn't run an x86 emulator fast enough to play games from the original Xbox.
Opter In
Then there's the AMD side of the equation, it has been thick as thieves with IBM in the production of its AMD64 technology processors. Big Blue would almost certainly have no problems buying permission from AMD to produce an Opteron/Athlon 64 based processor, it might well have that permission already.
An AMD64 based processor makes much more sense than a PowerPC one. Microsoft already has an operating system that works on that architecture and backwards compatibility with the current Xbox would be no problem. Microsoft has contracted Sis to produce the IO chip for the system and that firm already produces a chipset for the Athlon 64. It all looks like the logical answer but then there's that spanner in the works.
The Real Threat
The biggest firm in console gaming by far is Sony with its Playstation 2. The juiciest leaks that have appeared about the Cell processor put that architecture a country mile ahead of any other mainstream processor performance wise. It looks likely to offer capabilities that will be well beyond the AMD64 and PowerPC variants when it is released, even taking into account the latter processors improving considerably over the next couple of years.
That leaves Microsoft with a big problem. If it chooses PowerPC or AMD64, it might end up trying to sell an Xbox 2 that at best offers only half the performance of the Playstation 3. A far from appetising thought.
But then you need to think about just why IBM and Toshiba are involved with the Cell processor in the first place. Both firms are aiming to use it in high-power multiprocessor systems. In theory at least, both firms could supply Cell processor systems to whichever companies they liked. So then you end up with the last major possibility, that Microsoft could well have chosen IBM to manufacture processors for the Xbox 2 because it has somehow persuaded the firm to supply Cell processors for the new system.
There're no two ways around it, Sony would be livid if that was the case but it would also be stuck. Microsoft has more than enough money to step into the breach if Sony decided to walk away from dealing with IBM over that happening. That's something Sony couldn't afford to allow because it would mean the firm scrabbling around trying to find a replacement architecture and Xbox 2 getting the Cell technology all to itself, with all that entails.
Conclusion
Sitting pretty in the middle of all this is IBM. Whichever way things go it will be getting money from all parties. It effectively has the One Ring to rule them all. It's doubtful that Microsoft will manage to get its claws into the Cell technology but far from impossible. You can lay a bet that Sony's lawyers are looking at its contract with IBM very carefully indeed at the moment. µ "
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12523
_________________________________________________
"Xbox2 vies with PS3 technology
One ring to rule them all
By Arron Rouse: Wednesday 05 November 2003, 16:57
THERE'S SOMETHING STRANGE about Microsoft's choice of IBM to make its processors for the Xbox 2. You might think that it's a reasonable choice but it brings up more questions than most analysts are going to be comfortable with. Many have immediately jumped on the idea that the Xbox 2 will use a PowerPC variant processor at its heart but that's far from the only option. The biggest spanner in the works could be the Sony/Toshiba/IBM Cell processor.
The most curious thing about the choice of IBM is that the firm is already producing processors for Nintendo and is designing the next generation of 'Cell' processors for the Playstation 3. So IBM effectively knows what all of the key players are up to, something that might not sit comfortably with the CEOs of the three main console firms.
Route G5
It's tempting to think that IBM will be supplying Microsoft with a modified PowerPC chip for the Xbox 2. The new G5 series of 64bit processors being used in the latest Apple Macs certainly has shown good performance but there would be a huge number of problems for Microsoft in switching to that architecture.
Microsoft would need to port the latest version of its Xbox operating system to PowerPC; after all, even consoles need an operating system. That would be a large task just by itself. Then there are the problems of backwards compatibility, even the latest G5 probably couldn't run an x86 emulator fast enough to play games from the original Xbox.
Opter In
Then there's the AMD side of the equation, it has been thick as thieves with IBM in the production of its AMD64 technology processors. Big Blue would almost certainly have no problems buying permission from AMD to produce an Opteron/Athlon 64 based processor, it might well have that permission already.
An AMD64 based processor makes much more sense than a PowerPC one. Microsoft already has an operating system that works on that architecture and backwards compatibility with the current Xbox would be no problem. Microsoft has contracted Sis to produce the IO chip for the system and that firm already produces a chipset for the Athlon 64. It all looks like the logical answer but then there's that spanner in the works.
The Real Threat
The biggest firm in console gaming by far is Sony with its Playstation 2. The juiciest leaks that have appeared about the Cell processor put that architecture a country mile ahead of any other mainstream processor performance wise. It looks likely to offer capabilities that will be well beyond the AMD64 and PowerPC variants when it is released, even taking into account the latter processors improving considerably over the next couple of years.
That leaves Microsoft with a big problem. If it chooses PowerPC or AMD64, it might end up trying to sell an Xbox 2 that at best offers only half the performance of the Playstation 3. A far from appetising thought.
But then you need to think about just why IBM and Toshiba are involved with the Cell processor in the first place. Both firms are aiming to use it in high-power multiprocessor systems. In theory at least, both firms could supply Cell processor systems to whichever companies they liked. So then you end up with the last major possibility, that Microsoft could well have chosen IBM to manufacture processors for the Xbox 2 because it has somehow persuaded the firm to supply Cell processors for the new system.
There're no two ways around it, Sony would be livid if that was the case but it would also be stuck. Microsoft has more than enough money to step into the breach if Sony decided to walk away from dealing with IBM over that happening. That's something Sony couldn't afford to allow because it would mean the firm scrabbling around trying to find a replacement architecture and Xbox 2 getting the Cell technology all to itself, with all that entails.
Conclusion
Sitting pretty in the middle of all this is IBM. Whichever way things go it will be getting money from all parties. It effectively has the One Ring to rule them all. It's doubtful that Microsoft will manage to get its claws into the Cell technology but far from impossible. You can lay a bet that Sony's lawyers are looking at its contract with IBM very carefully indeed at the moment. µ "
11-05-03 | 04:09 PM
#54
Thread Starter
Guest
Here's another interesting story!
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1371393,00.asp
November 3, 2003
Microsoft Xbox To Use PowerPC Chip
By Mark Hachman
Microsoft's second-generation Xbox game console will contain a PowerPC microprocessor, sources confirmed Monday.
In a statement issued by Microsoft on Monday, the company said that Microsoft had licensed "leading edge semiconductor processor technology" from IBM, to be used in the next-generation Xbox. Sources close to IBM subsequently identified the chip as a PowerPC, but declined to state which chip will be used in the console.
The disclosure seems to indicate that Microsoft intends to break compatibility with the first-generation Xbox, which contained a 733-MHz Celeron designed by Intel. However, analysts said there were at least two means by which Microsoft could allow first-generation Xbox programs to run on the Xbox2.
Although rivals Sony Entertainment and Nintendo Ltd. have each shipped multiple generations of consoles, the Xbox represented Microsoft's first entry. Both the Xbox and Nintendo's Gamecube have fought viciously to achieve market share, although both have trailed the Sony PlayStation2 by a wide margin.
While both Sony and Nintendo have chosen relatively inexpensive, optimized RISC architectures to power their gaming machines, Microsoft's first-generation Xbox largely imitated the design of a PC. That strategy appears to have changed, analysts said, who added that Microsoft's U-turn came as a complete shock.
In a statement Monday quoting Bernie Meyerson, an IBM fellow and chief technologist for IBM's Technology Group, Microsoft said that "the new Xbox technologies will be based on the latest in IBM's family of state-of-the-art processors."
Scott Sykes, a spokesman for IBM Microelectronics, confirmed that an undisclosed IBM processor would power the Xbox. "It is the main CPU," Sykes said, when asked if the component would be a co-processor or other chip within the console.
Sources said the chip powering the next Xbox will be a PowerPC, although they could not confirm which processor will power the device.
With the deal, IBM now is involved in the design of microprocessors to be used in two different next-generation entertainment consoles, each designed by two different customers. IBM, Toshiba, and Sony have each contributed to the design of the "Cell" microprocessor, which Sony Entertainment has said will be used to develop future entertainment consoles, largely thought to include the PlayStation 3.
Because of IBM's close ties with rival Sony, Microsoft probably is taking a hands-off approach to the Xbox deal, said Peter Glaskowsky, an analyst with In-Stat/MDR. "My guess is that IBM is coughing up something along the lines of one-directional transfer," he said. "Microsoft is telling IBM what will happen, and designing the machine (itself)."
Analysts and industry sources speculated that the PowerPC could be anything from a G3 to a stripped-down G5. The only constraints? The Xbox will have to be sold for less than $300, and the processor must use a minimal heat sink to fit within the constraints of the chassis. In addition, the technology used must be seen as a leap over today's consoles: IBM has already shipped over 10 million PowerPCs to Nintendo Ltd. for use in the current GameCube, each a 485-MHz derivative of the G3 called the "Gekko".
"The key thing here is what they haven't said," Glaskowsky said. "The CPU could well do the work, or in the Xbox2 it could literally be the co-processor or exist in a multiprocessing environment."
To others, a commitment from IBM's processor team is a definite sign that IBM is in, and Intel is out—at least as a CPU designer. When asked if Microsoft might design in a PowerPC alongside an Intel chip, Dean McCarron, an analyst with Mercury Research, replied, "I don't know why they would do that."
If Intel has indeed been ousted from the Xbox's architecture, the conventional wisdom holds that Microsoft may have to break software compatibility with its first-generation design – the rule, rather than the exception, in console design. Save for the PlayStation2, which allows playback of PlayStation 1 games, most consoles have required their developers to port their older titles to the new hardware.
Microsoft already headed down this path by choosing ATI graphics chips for the second-generation Xbox, Glaskowsky pointed out. "If you've got code that's been written specifically for Nvidia, what are the odds it will run wrote code on an ATI graphics core?" he asked.
That's not to say that including an X86 chip means older Xbox games won't run on the latest hardware. In February, Microsoft bought Virtual PC from Connectix, that allows X86-designed programs and games to run on Mac PowerPC-based hardware. In addition, Microsoft's Windows XP Embedded operating system also runs on the PowerPC, Glaskowsky pointed out. Either piece of software would still entice developers to write games for the Xbox that they could later port to the PC, he said.
Chris
November 3, 2003
Microsoft Xbox To Use PowerPC Chip
By Mark Hachman
Microsoft's second-generation Xbox game console will contain a PowerPC microprocessor, sources confirmed Monday.
In a statement issued by Microsoft on Monday, the company said that Microsoft had licensed "leading edge semiconductor processor technology" from IBM, to be used in the next-generation Xbox. Sources close to IBM subsequently identified the chip as a PowerPC, but declined to state which chip will be used in the console.
The disclosure seems to indicate that Microsoft intends to break compatibility with the first-generation Xbox, which contained a 733-MHz Celeron designed by Intel. However, analysts said there were at least two means by which Microsoft could allow first-generation Xbox programs to run on the Xbox2.
Although rivals Sony Entertainment and Nintendo Ltd. have each shipped multiple generations of consoles, the Xbox represented Microsoft's first entry. Both the Xbox and Nintendo's Gamecube have fought viciously to achieve market share, although both have trailed the Sony PlayStation2 by a wide margin.
While both Sony and Nintendo have chosen relatively inexpensive, optimized RISC architectures to power their gaming machines, Microsoft's first-generation Xbox largely imitated the design of a PC. That strategy appears to have changed, analysts said, who added that Microsoft's U-turn came as a complete shock.
In a statement Monday quoting Bernie Meyerson, an IBM fellow and chief technologist for IBM's Technology Group, Microsoft said that "the new Xbox technologies will be based on the latest in IBM's family of state-of-the-art processors."
Scott Sykes, a spokesman for IBM Microelectronics, confirmed that an undisclosed IBM processor would power the Xbox. "It is the main CPU," Sykes said, when asked if the component would be a co-processor or other chip within the console.
Sources said the chip powering the next Xbox will be a PowerPC, although they could not confirm which processor will power the device.
With the deal, IBM now is involved in the design of microprocessors to be used in two different next-generation entertainment consoles, each designed by two different customers. IBM, Toshiba, and Sony have each contributed to the design of the "Cell" microprocessor, which Sony Entertainment has said will be used to develop future entertainment consoles, largely thought to include the PlayStation 3.
Because of IBM's close ties with rival Sony, Microsoft probably is taking a hands-off approach to the Xbox deal, said Peter Glaskowsky, an analyst with In-Stat/MDR. "My guess is that IBM is coughing up something along the lines of one-directional transfer," he said. "Microsoft is telling IBM what will happen, and designing the machine (itself)."
Analysts and industry sources speculated that the PowerPC could be anything from a G3 to a stripped-down G5. The only constraints? The Xbox will have to be sold for less than $300, and the processor must use a minimal heat sink to fit within the constraints of the chassis. In addition, the technology used must be seen as a leap over today's consoles: IBM has already shipped over 10 million PowerPCs to Nintendo Ltd. for use in the current GameCube, each a 485-MHz derivative of the G3 called the "Gekko".
"The key thing here is what they haven't said," Glaskowsky said. "The CPU could well do the work, or in the Xbox2 it could literally be the co-processor or exist in a multiprocessing environment."
To others, a commitment from IBM's processor team is a definite sign that IBM is in, and Intel is out—at least as a CPU designer. When asked if Microsoft might design in a PowerPC alongside an Intel chip, Dean McCarron, an analyst with Mercury Research, replied, "I don't know why they would do that."
If Intel has indeed been ousted from the Xbox's architecture, the conventional wisdom holds that Microsoft may have to break software compatibility with its first-generation design – the rule, rather than the exception, in console design. Save for the PlayStation2, which allows playback of PlayStation 1 games, most consoles have required their developers to port their older titles to the new hardware.
Microsoft already headed down this path by choosing ATI graphics chips for the second-generation Xbox, Glaskowsky pointed out. "If you've got code that's been written specifically for Nvidia, what are the odds it will run wrote code on an ATI graphics core?" he asked.
That's not to say that including an X86 chip means older Xbox games won't run on the latest hardware. In February, Microsoft bought Virtual PC from Connectix, that allows X86-designed programs and games to run on Mac PowerPC-based hardware. In addition, Microsoft's Windows XP Embedded operating system also runs on the PowerPC, Glaskowsky pointed out. Either piece of software would still entice developers to write games for the Xbox that they could later port to the PC, he said.
Chris
11-05-03 | 04:33 PM
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From: Compton (Straight Outta)
Microsoft already headed down this path by choosing ATI graphics chips for the second-generation Xbox, Glaskowsky pointed out. "If you've got code that's been written specifically for Nvidia, what are the odds it will run wrote code on an ATI graphics core?" he asked.
Last edited by Dan Average; 11-05-03 at 04:35 PM.
