They seemed like fair counterpoints. Not sure why you are bailing so easily and quickly.

Don't feel like arguing/debating about it anymore is all. I respect his opinion and decided not to further the discussion since mine and his won't change is all.

I guess the head running into a wall seems a little harsh since it seemed like a clean argument.

Glad this trolling thread turned into a decent discussion.

was meant for me as well as other posters.

ok

I understand your point, but I also disagree. Every game needs to be properly bug tested, and rushed releases are more common to PC than other mediums for obvious reasons. That doesn't make it bad though. Here's why:

1) There is no way that non-linear games can be completely bug free. There is an almost infinite combination of possibilities, and not every single contingency is properly prepared. Games like morrowwind and KOTOR can be improved, but only after 50,000 people have played thru it and reported bugs.

2) Patches show that the game designers are interested in keeping a fanbase for said game rather than finishing a project and working on something new. The best games out there today were only good when they first came out. Its the continued support that makes them the best. Cavedog (R.I.P) kept adding new units to total annihilation for a year after its release, adding even more dynamics to an already great game. Blizzard has a great reputation for supporting its games. They actively work at staying one step ahead of cheaters, and when balance issues arise, they try to fix them. Best of all, they consult with the elite players, and often design the game to their specifications. Frozen throne fixed the online gameplay of warcraft 3 more than anything else. Counter-strike adds new technology as it becomes feasable. Upon learning that a lot of clan CS players use roger wilco to talk instead of type, The next patch of CS integrated headset into the game.

3) no game is unplayable without a patch. They just improve on it. So what if some people get a different experience with a game. At least give them the opportunity to try the latest version. For the record, even if only 10% of people try playing online, I refuse to buy a game if it doesn't support it, with obvious exceptions for games that can only be single player. I guess I've gamed long enough, or am smart enough that computer opponents only challenge me so much, whereas a human opponent online can keep fooling me. Galactic Civilizations looks like a wonderful game, and Masters of orion is one of my alltime favorites, but I simply won't buy it.