I have never played the Dreamcast myself, but from what I have read on this forum I have gathered that in most people's eyes the PS2 was not at all superior to the Dreamcast. All I can say from first hand experience is that after hating the xbox since it came out, just ask wowzy as he will tell you I was totally against M$ and the system, as soon as I got one I stopped playing the PS2. The games and system just aren't as good IMO. I was in the DVDtalk Socom clan and I was in the DVDtalk madden league and I just couldn't force myself to turn on the PS2 when I had the xbox there. Discussing a difference of opinion is not arguing. IMO anyway.

DC superior to PS2? I don't think so. At the time of PS2 launch, the DC had a better library. But now, the DC couldn't even touch it.

You know, I just jumped on the Xbox express this week and I still disagree with just about everything you just posted. The PS2 is a great success both financially and creatively. Considering it came out a year before the Xbox, I think it fares very well, especially considering it's more limited hardware. In addition, if you're not playing some of the PS2 exclusives such as GT3, GTA 3, Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, and Amplitude, I think you're missing out on some of the best games available. As the hardware ages and matures, I think the differences between the Xbox and PS2 become more obvious, but still most games seem to work just fine on the PS2, and GT4 and MGS 3 certainly show the PS2 still has a lot of power left to explore. I also love the PS2 controller and think it may be the best out there, though the S controller is pretty good as well. That original controller? Well, I'm not sure what they were thinking on that one.

So we are comparing high end gaming PC's to the X-Box, okay, but you've got to figure in the $1800 or so (conservatively) I'd have left over after buying the X-Box instead of the PC and put that into some good receiver and speakers or a kick'n TV and then make the comparison.

I'll be playing Halo2 and Half Life 2 and Doom 3 on my x-box, thanks.

Gotta agree with you there. It really annoys me that these PC game developers make these amazing games and show them off to the gaming media while keeping it quite that only a fraction of a percent of those who buy the game will be able to enjoy it like that. At least the Xbox format keeps them honest and ensures a solid, ejoyable gaming expierence for everyone with the system (hopefully).

1) You can't speak for all of us. Since the Xbox has been out, I have never played a FPS more comfortably than I have on the Xbox. I can play any game on the Xbox 3 times longer than on the PC without feeling fatigued. I like playing on something bigger than my daughters 20" tv all the time. IMHO the PC should be used for surfing the web and writing essays.

2) What are the negatives about the Xbox? I can think of 2 of the biggest positives. Playing on the comfort of your couch or recliner and not having to upgrade your processor and video card every year to play the latest video games.

Now back to playing KOTOR so my wife can write her essay on sponge cake recipes on this overgrown "Word Processor".

Most games programmed for multiple platforms simultaneously are designed for the lowest common denominator - in this case, PS2. They don't bother to spend the time to add extra lighting, environmental effects, bump maps, etc.

A good example is the Fallout game coming out later for Xbox and PS2. There is a video interview with somebody on the development team on IGN right now. When asked if the Xbox version would take advantage of the extra power, his response was a meek "Not really. We want it to be equally good on all systems."

Too bad Knights of the Old Republic isn't coming out for PS2, I'd be curious to see how it turned out.

I'm glad it is not, that way we don't get a watered down version, and the X-Box gets a good exclusive.

About the dc/ps2 argument above: I've got both (plus xbox and gcube), and there still really isn't any game out there that looks as good as soul caliber on the dreamcast (I'm using it with the vga adapter on an hdtv). Of course, that's basically the only exception.

In all honesty though, if you've got an hdtv, the dreamcast kicks the crap out of the ps2 graphics-wise due to the lack of progressive scan support on the ps2 (almost all dc games use the vga box).

Taylor34

Well that's mainly because of the PS2's larger user base. 70 million consoles sold world wide as opposed to 9.4 million XBox consoles.

The problem with using Splinter Cell as an example, as someone pointed out earlier, is that there are to a large degree two different versions of the game. The XBox version was developed with that console in mind. And the PS2 version was specifically designed for that system pretty much from the ground up ( unless Electronic Gaming Monthly lied to me).

One of the things about the PS2's Emotion Engine is that it is a "new" CPU. Meaning that programmers have had to relearn, and very quickly at that, everything they once new about programming and writing code for the Playstation. The XBox uses essentially off the shelf parts, though somewhat modified. A modifiied PIII processor, 128mbs of RAM, an NVIDIA graphics card, all pretty standard parts. Nothing really "new" or in house. Also, the XBox uses DirectX as the base code for the system. It's easy to program for, as Microsoft intended, but as in the case of Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance, there are some things it can't do very well like, render water effects. For a game like Splinter Cell, it might be easier to program textures on the XBox because it was designed to be that way unlike the PS2's Emotion Engine.

Both systems have their pluses and minuses. It just depends what you are looking for in a system.

josh, with all due respect I would expect a "review" like this.

You've spent the last year or 2 dissing XBOX and your bias is showing . I doubt you'll ever bring yourself to say XBOX is just as good as PSX2. As mentioned above, both have pluses and minuses.

I have to agree with this dude I tried to have a debate with him before all it got me was banned for a week. I had no idea the mods saw it as a fight I was just debating but the dude got pretty heavy into it. I hate to say it but I'd write anything off he said about xbox in a min. I would pull up the post to prove my point bit the mods deleted it.

About all the DC isn't as good as the PS2 business, I have to disagree. I own a DC, PS2, and a GC with an X-box soon to join the fray (KOTOR here I come!) but out of all these systems I had the most fun with my DC. Maybe its because I like those weird Sega games more than a Grand Theft Auto type game, but my DC got tons of playtime while my PS2 only gets casual usage. When the PS2 just came out and the Dreamcast was out for a year, there wasn't really a huge increase in graphics power that I could see and even now there still isn't(hell, Vice City looks worse than a lot of DC games to me). I'm not saying the graphics on the PS2 aren't better, I'm just saying not by a whole lot.

Most PS2 games, and X-Box & GC games for that matter, aren't developed to push a system to its max. Thats just too time consuming for developers. PS2 has Metal Gear 2, X-Box has Splinter Cell, and GC has Zelda to show the graphical power of their systems, but most games are just decent to good in the graphics department. As long as the game is fun though I could careless. And for the record no games graphics have wowed me more than the original Jet Grind Radio(which still looks better than most cel shaded games, Zelda and Sly Cooper being the exceptions).

I never "dissed" the X-box, I only showed its weaknesses, like I have here. Since everyone else in this forum points out the PS2 weaknesses daily, I feel there is no need for me to touch on them. But when someone like me comes in here and points out the X-box weaknesses, it is a whole event. No one dares to do such a thing, but I do, and judging by your responce, take on a negative view for it. So be it.

And as you can tell, I never said the controller was the worst controller ever (though, that has been said by some other people in this thread). I merely said that I, personally didn't like it. And what do you know, some people showed up to post that they agreed.

The thing that TOPDAWG is refering to was a case of generalization. I will not tolerate such a thing based on any system. That plus Gallent Pig is, how do I say this without getting banned, one who generally leans towards the X-box, didn't help the situation.

Now, I know it may be shocking to some of you to think that the X-box has any weaknesses, but you have to realize that every console has weaknesses. I just don't feel the need to dis the PS2 on a daily basis like some of you in this forum.

Every game that EA makes for the Xbox is a PS2 game that is playable on Xbox. You should try a game that is exclusive to Xbox then you will see the difference in graphics and load times.

Uh...I have to ask. I read back over your posts and I still see nothing about Xbox weaknesses. You feel that the Xbox has barely better graphics than the PS2 and you don't like the controller. That amounts to weaknesses?

I play my Xbox on a 65inch HDTV thru component video. Graphically, the PS2 doesn't stand a chance. Must be your eyes or your set-up. Hell, I can go to my local Babbages or EB & compare graphics at the little TV kioskes (sp?) and see a huge difference.

Xbox has 5.1 sound which is awesome in-game. Of course you need to play on a decent 5.1 set-up to appreciate it.

The Xbox has a hard-drive. 'Nuff said.

I personally love the large controller but I also like the S-controller. I can enjoy games using the PS2 or GC controller (though I still prefer the Xbox controllers). It is all in what you get used to.

The Xbox has LIVE. If you like or want online gaming and don't play on your PC, it is an easy & fun way to play online.

I am just stating good points but I really can't think of any weaknesses other than the game library (that takes time and everyone was bitching about the PS2's library when it first came out) and exclusives (which is a matter of opinion to what games you enjoy).

As far as you pointing out the Xbox's weaknesses, I haven't seen that. Go in with a negative attittude and that's what you get...negative opinions usually.

All I have to say is that judging an entire console over ONE game, a multi-console game at that, is a bit premature.

I have both the x-box and ps2. I definitely think the x-box has better graphics. If I had to rank the one quality of each console that makes it better than the others I would have to do it in this order:


x-box graphics
ps2 available games
gamecube controller

A little quick to rush to judgement after only playing one game, don't you think? Maybe you should try a different game.

Well, I'll try and steer this thread in a slightly more positive direction.
I just got my Xbox and hooked it up last night. Here's a few of MY first impressions:
1: It's not nearly as big as I had feared. It fits fine in my home theater cabinet and I have rigged a shelving solution to house both it and my PS2 (currently in the shop). It really looks quite nice as well.

2: I was a little disappointed to find that I had to buy the advanced AV package in order to get 5.1 sound. The PS2 has an optical out, certainly the Xbox should as well. While we're on the subject, why can't these systems just have jacks in the back like a DVD player,anyway?

3: Tried my first game, KOTOR. Needless to say, I was impressed. I like that 5.1 sound, very cool. The graphics were very nice, though on my 36 in TV, I've seen nothing so far that I've said "There's no way they could do that on a PS2". Very, very nice game, though

4: The S-controller has a pretty nice layout and of course I'll have to try a bunch more games to get a real feel of it after using dual shock for 5 years, but I had one problem with it : the analog sticks. I felt the tops were too small and my thumbs kept falling off of them. Maybe I should get a regular controller as my second one? I don't know, they just seem so huge. Anyone have a third party controller they really like? Too bad MS never came up with a mid-size model.

Oh, and a question : Do you have to subscribe to Live to get the downloadable content? That doesn't seem right. I'll probably get Live anyway, since I've picked up Mechassault as my second game, but it seems to me that if you've put down the $50 for a game you should be entitled to any improvements available to others online regardless of having to pay $50 for a year of Live.

I think that as more people buy PS2s with the online package (especially after the next price drop) you'll see the PS2 online community overtake Live. Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet a lot of J6P's will look at the two systems and say "Why should I pay $50 to take my Xbox online when I can go online with the PS2 right now for free?"

But overall I'm very happy and I'm looking forward to picking up some more games soon!

One more question : Is Panzer Dragon Orta OOP? If so, I should find that one right away.

Agreed. I just wish it was flat on top so I could stack things on top of it. The aerodynamic design looks cool, but isn't very practical.

KOTOR isn't that graphics intensive. I agree that it could easily be done on PS2. Graphically, there are better games (such as Halo and Splinter Cell).

The downloadable content for other games has also been released on the "Official Xbox Magazine" discs that come out each month. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for KOTOR.

Yeah, it would have been better. Like I said, I hade to buy a wire rack at Organized Living to sit in the cabinet and provide a space for my PS2. It would be nice if I could have just stacked them, but as you said, the round top makes that impossible. Any idea what the new, smaller Xbox will look like? I haven't heard anything in a while.

Certainly it looks nice, and I'll bet it even looks better as I progress in it. I'll definately buy Halo, but since it was on sale for $28.88 not that long ago, I can't rationalize spending $50 on it
now. I'll wait til the next sale. I really want to check out PDO since I hear it looks really great.

Quote:

The downloadable content for other games has also been released on the "Official Xbox Magazine" discs that come out each month. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for KOTOR.

Still, that requires a purchase. Several, actually. Why can't I just plug in my Xbox and download content? That just doesn't seem right. I've already set up my IP Address from the startup menu. How hard would it be?
BTW : What is the downloadable content on KOTOR, anyway? Is it already available?

With regard to the initial post that started this thread, it was probably one of the most parochial posts I have read on this forum (by a veteran of the forum, no less) in quite some time. Passing judgment on a console after playing it for a few hours on just one game? Right...

The OXM discs do require an additonal purchase, but they do say what's on which disc right on the magazine (which is $7.99 at newstands). Actually, I recommend a subscription since they do include demos, videos, and other fun things.

There is no downloadable content yet for KOTOR, but when it does come it'll be new weapons and armor. Fun stuff, but nothing mind-blowing.

You know, I don't think that original post was unreasonable at all. He said that based on one game, the graphics seemed better, but not a lot better. That's his opinion. Here's what some reviewers said about SC2 on the Xbox (taken from Metacritic)

GMR Magazine
The Xbox controller, thanks to the ultrastiff D-pad and gummi bear-buttons, is the least responsive controller to play SC II with... The graphics are the best of the three versions, though not by much. [Sept 2003, p.63]
GamingWorld X
The Xbox’s Soul Calibur 2 looks the best of all three versions, but the differences aren’t huge. [Import]

So his point might be valid, at least on multi-systems.

As far as the controller, well I thought it felt weird as well (though certainly not "total poop"). I love the dual shock and think it's the best controller out there. Certainly there are some nice aspects to the S-controller (specifically the triggers for racing games), but it does take some getting used to if you're a fan of Sony's controller.