Do we really need PS3, XB2, GC to the 4th Power?
02-25-03, 10:29 PM
#26
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Originally posted by mr.snowmizer
What? Better hardware can only change games through graphics and sound?!?
I specifically mentioned better AI/Artificial Life implementation, which obviously could benefit from greater horsepower. Unless everybody here thinks computer AI matches the complexity of humans or everybody believes better AI can't change gameplay, this is one really silly statement.
What? Better hardware can only change games through graphics and sound?!?
I specifically mentioned better AI/Artificial Life implementation, which obviously could benefit from greater horsepower. Unless everybody here thinks computer AI matches the complexity of humans or everybody believes better AI can't change gameplay, this is one really silly statement.
02-26-03, 05:24 AM
#28
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Well, more complex AI is a big one for starters, and also the new systems will be able to do more complex AI and more complex graphics at the same time.
With PC games, the games drive the hardware, but the games still have to be compatible with last year's gear and the year's before that.
Consoles, at release, are a closed platform that is cutting-edge. Developers can really push this hardware, so the hardware drives the games to new heights.
If a new system pushes 10 times the geometry of PS2, the difference will be dramatic. Details that are fleshed out with flat textures now will be modeled in 3D. Further, the textures themselves will look better.
What you'll see is more characters onscreen at a time, with much more detail on each character, in much more detailed environments with better animation at a faster framerate. And also higher resolution if you have HDTV.
Five years ago, I thought nothing could possibly look better than Zelda: OOT.
With PC games, the games drive the hardware, but the games still have to be compatible with last year's gear and the year's before that.
Consoles, at release, are a closed platform that is cutting-edge. Developers can really push this hardware, so the hardware drives the games to new heights.
If a new system pushes 10 times the geometry of PS2, the difference will be dramatic. Details that are fleshed out with flat textures now will be modeled in 3D. Further, the textures themselves will look better.
What you'll see is more characters onscreen at a time, with much more detail on each character, in much more detailed environments with better animation at a faster framerate. And also higher resolution if you have HDTV.
Five years ago, I thought nothing could possibly look better than Zelda: OOT.
02-26-03, 10:22 AM
#29
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With techniques like normal mapping (which is what Doom 3 uses to get great looking models with low polygon counts) we'll start seeing really impressive character models. Real time lighting and effects (like in Splinter Cell) is another step more games will be integrating.
The biggest steps will probably be in environments and gameplay. Hopefully we'll start seeing games where everything is interactive (not just the single pop can sitting on the desk etc.) and the gameplay is wide open. Games like GTA 3 have started this trend and it'll just get bigger.
Personally, I'd like to see more games using cel-shading and 2D animation techniques, applied to 3D worlds. I've always been partial to the idea of a game that looked like a high quality cartoon.
The biggest steps will probably be in environments and gameplay. Hopefully we'll start seeing games where everything is interactive (not just the single pop can sitting on the desk etc.) and the gameplay is wide open. Games like GTA 3 have started this trend and it'll just get bigger.
Personally, I'd like to see more games using cel-shading and 2D animation techniques, applied to 3D worlds. I've always been partial to the idea of a game that looked like a high quality cartoon.
02-26-03, 11:12 AM
#31
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Josh: Better AI doesn't mean ultra realism. As others have mentioned, graphics aren't the only thing that can improve. Heck 3D games are in their infancy. We're still dealing with basic issues of camera and such that there is plenty of room for growth in 3D gaming. But aside from graphics, there are other areas in which you can improve. As mentioned already, AI is a huge area that can be improved with a better CPU. Physics is another area that can improve. And better physics doesn't always mean ultra realism either. It's more about the factors involved that effect the physics.
Josh, your view of gaming is rather limited if you think graphics is the only area that can see significant improvement with a newer system. There is probably stuff that nobody has concieved of yet that could happen in the next 10 years.
Josh, your view of gaming is rather limited if you think graphics is the only area that can see significant improvement with a newer system. There is probably stuff that nobody has concieved of yet that could happen in the next 10 years.
02-26-03, 11:36 AM
#32
Retired
I'm just getting bored with games in general, so maybe I'm a little cynical.
To me better AI just means more frustration. I like bosses and enemies that just have patterns you have to figure out. When we get to the point that the bosses really think and react to you almost like another person, I'll lose interest. I don't play games for a challenge, or to get a sense of accomplishment. They've just always been nothing more than a diversion for me. Something to have fun and quit thinking about school, work, etc. for a while. So I've never dug games that required tons of thought and planning like RTS games or Splinter Cell. They feel like work.
Games just seem to be moving toward more realistic games, that require more time, thought and effort to get into. I see any hardware advances just furthering this with more interaction, more open ended gameplay (which I despise) and things of this nature, so I'm really not excited about any future advances.
Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised next gen, or the one after, but I doubt it.
I figure simplistic, easy to pick up and play games will be even more rare than the are now in the future though as the technology will make more realistic/complex games possible.
To me better AI just means more frustration. I like bosses and enemies that just have patterns you have to figure out. When we get to the point that the bosses really think and react to you almost like another person, I'll lose interest. I don't play games for a challenge, or to get a sense of accomplishment. They've just always been nothing more than a diversion for me. Something to have fun and quit thinking about school, work, etc. for a while. So I've never dug games that required tons of thought and planning like RTS games or Splinter Cell. They feel like work.
Games just seem to be moving toward more realistic games, that require more time, thought and effort to get into. I see any hardware advances just furthering this with more interaction, more open ended gameplay (which I despise) and things of this nature, so I'm really not excited about any future advances.
Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised next gen, or the one after, but I doubt it.
I figure simplistic, easy to pick up and play games will be even more rare than the are now in the future though as the technology will make more realistic/complex games possible.
02-26-03, 02:50 PM
#33
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I think it's a good question to ask; Where is the industry headed?
Are we just going to get more high resolution graphics with little innovation in terms of gameplay? I don't know. I think online gaming for consoles will play a more prevelant role in the coming years but I just hope that the industry doesn't completely fore-go offline gaming all together. There will most certainly be a rush to go online with many titles but I think game developers will have to ask themselves "is online playability really necessary for this particular game?".
I'd like to see game developers give consumers "deeper" games. Longer definitley, but more in terms of greater variety in gameplay. Of course that's more of a creative issue than a technical one.
Are we just going to get more high resolution graphics with little innovation in terms of gameplay? I don't know. I think online gaming for consoles will play a more prevelant role in the coming years but I just hope that the industry doesn't completely fore-go offline gaming all together. There will most certainly be a rush to go online with many titles but I think game developers will have to ask themselves "is online playability really necessary for this particular game?".
I'd like to see game developers give consumers "deeper" games. Longer definitley, but more in terms of greater variety in gameplay. Of course that's more of a creative issue than a technical one.
02-26-03, 03:33 PM
#34
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Originally posted by Captain Harlock
Are we just going to get more high resolution graphics with little innovation in terms of gameplay?
Are we just going to get more high resolution graphics with little innovation in terms of gameplay?
It's unfortunate, but it's a side-effect of the main-streaming of video games. Most gamers now want pretty graphics, and don't care how the game plays. Who cares if it's fun or not as long as its got pixel shading and bump-mapping? Look at the reaction to Zelda: The Wind Waker when the cel-shading was revealed. Tons of people, many on this board, immediately declared they were not going to buy the game...simply because of the way it looked.
02-26-03, 04:08 PM
#35
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Originally posted by Groucho
I think so. Look at the current generation of console games. Most of them feature the same gameplay as the last generation, just with prettier graphics and sound. Almost all of the gained processing power is going to presentation, and not gameplay, A.I., or interactivity.
It's unfortunate, but it's a side-effect of the main-streaming of video games. Most gamers now want pretty graphics, and don't care how the game plays. Who cares if it's fun or not as long as its got pixel shading and bump-mapping? Look at the reaction to Zelda: The Wind Waker when the cel-shading was revealed. Tons of people, many on this board, immediately declared they were not going to buy the game...simply because of the way it looked.
I think so. Look at the current generation of console games. Most of them feature the same gameplay as the last generation, just with prettier graphics and sound. Almost all of the gained processing power is going to presentation, and not gameplay, A.I., or interactivity.
It's unfortunate, but it's a side-effect of the main-streaming of video games. Most gamers now want pretty graphics, and don't care how the game plays. Who cares if it's fun or not as long as its got pixel shading and bump-mapping? Look at the reaction to Zelda: The Wind Waker when the cel-shading was revealed. Tons of people, many on this board, immediately declared they were not going to buy the game...simply because of the way it looked.
Metroid Prime - changed the way FPS can become FPA
GTA3 and Getaway etc. - took existing third person adventures and opened the field up to incredible open ended gameplay.
Splinter Cell - mostly graphical and a couple of different moves.
Pikmin - one of the most creative games with a new premise to console games
Blinx - creative use of the hard drive but same platforming
Halo - incredible FPS but still FPS
There are many many others but most of the big games this time around are really more of a tweaking of existing formats.
As far as AI very little has changed except in the fighting genres (still not enough) and in the FPS. I really do not see how an increase in AI can really revolutionize gaming. Most likely the revolution in gaming will come from something that none of us have mentioned yet.
Wish list:
Standard HD (XBOX) has this covered
Standard HiDef
Standard networking (maybe wireless?)
Wireless controlers
5.1
