Sloth911

now that you have resorted to name calling, i dont want to repsond to your comments, but i wll.

1. nintendo is in 2/3rd place in the console market
2. nintendo's success is based on selling games to kids
3. nintendo's appeal to "mature" gamers are a handful of characters that we grew up w/ (mario, zelda, etc)
4. nintendo has few (if any) new ideas that are geared towards Mature gamers, what they do have is 3rd party games like SC, 007, GR
5. The reason that "junk" like SC, 007, GR does not sell ong the GC is because the mature gamers already own a ps2/xBox
6. The fact that SC, 007, GR sell millions of copies on the ps2/xBox only goes to disprove that these games are not desirable
7. Nintendo's succes w/ the GBA is because they are covering both markets. a) Kids b) Mature gamers that grew up w/ mario, zelda, etc
8. If Nintedo wants to be #1 and make more money they must have a more sofisticated approach to gaming than making more Zelda, Mario, Yoshi games.

spainlinx0

Where to begin on your points because I see many contradictions and arguments that seem to make no sense at all.

I'll start with point number 2 since point number 1 really has no bearing on what the person you quoted was talking about. The fact the Nintendo's success is based on selling to kids is still success. And you call it success. Why NOT do something you are successful at? I am 21 and own a GC so I guess I'm still a kid, but I don't see what this has to do with what the person above you stated.

Point 3 - Nintendo is working on appealing to mature gamers with the RE games and through letting 2nd and 3rd parties develop these games. Do we forget that Eternal Darkness and Metroid Prime are second party games?

Point 4 - Pretty much addressed above.

Point 5 - The fact that Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon have yet to be released on the GC may have some bearing on why they haven't sold, but I could just be talking out of my ass on this one.

Point 6 - No one says that these games aren't desirable. But what is the point of Nintendo releasing SC and GR if they are already selling well on the other two systems or on Xbox alone. They would do better to develop exclusive mature games and to buy exclusives such as they have done with Capcom.

Point 7 - Here you seem to contradict yourself. You say they do well trying to cover both markets on the GBA, but you say that they are stupid for trying to cover both markets with the GC. I just don't see where you are going with this one. You fault them for using their licenses on GC, but say it's a good plan on GBA. Maybe you should rethink this point.

Point 8 - I don't equate developing mature games with sophistication. I also do not equate developing them with a lack of sophistication either. They appeal to some gamers, but some gamers could give or take violence. I think Nintendo is taking steps to appeal to more "mature" gamers so I don't know why everyone is so down on them. Just because their first party games don't carry that coveted M label, doesn't mean that they aren't also taking steps to insure those types of games are released on their system.

Sloth911

In the article that started this thread, Nintendo was talking about getting the jump on the next generation of consoles. I feel that in order to be #1 Nintendo must have a more sophisticated business model that involves more than their traditional mascot characters. They must develop many (not a few games, or breather life into RE yet again) games that appeal to the Mature gamers. This statement is based on the domination of PS2 and the fact that xBox is selling as well as the GC.

spain:
4,5,6 were all based on darkside's comment about those games: "A hell of a lot better than the junk like Splinter Cell, Nightfire and Ghost Recon that seem to sell well now."

I am not arguing that they don’t have "M" titles, or are working on them, but compare the #'s of M games between the PS2/xBox/GC and it easy to see why the GC is lacking. They may have a series here and there, but not a solid line up.

With regards to 3rd parties developing games, Nintendo makes $ doing this, by charging them to use the proprietary optical format (as mentioned earlier), this IS NOT an incentive for 3rd parties, just like more expensive cartridges for the n64 were not an incentive when developers got cheaply make games for the psx.

I wasn’t implying that sophistication = mature. I was suggesting that Nintendo needs to revamp its business model, focusing on more than Mario, Zelda, etc remakes. That model made them tons of $$ and made them #1 for the nes/snes/GBA, but has failed for the n64/GC.

darkside

Lucky me.

Stupid was too strong a word and I wasn't trying to imply you are stupid. The negative comments I hear about the Cube is only a kids system or Nintendo doesn't make good 3D games are kind of stupid IMO. Thats probably why I had that word on the brain. Its seems like because Nintendo sells games kids can play along with stuff like Medal of Honor and Eternal Darkness older gamers hold it against them. What is Nintendo suppose to do, abandon their franchises to win older gamers back?

Nintendo is trying to get their second parties working on Mature games and they are trying to get 3rd parties to release Mature titles on the Cube. I don't see what else they can do.

However, Nintendo (first party games) is not going to go this direction as long as Miyamoto is around. If the fact they still make great games that are for all ages is going to ruin their chance of being the number one console then so be it. Like I said if a gamer passes on Nintendo because they equate Pokemon, Zelda and Mario with the entire console being for kids its their loss. They are missing out on great games.

Nintendo can change the look of the console next generation and switch to DVDs and a harddrive, but they can't change the type of game company they are, nor should they. If there is no market for games without violence and sex then its a problem with the market and not Nintendo. There should always be a place for great games even if they are okay for kids and adults to play.

rich-y

I absolutely will not buy another Nintendo system based on the fact that they refuse to make platforms that are backwards compatible.

1) Nintendo
2) Super Nintendo
3) Nintendo 64
4) Nintendo Gamecube
... all are platforms that require you to REPURCHASE the games you like if you want to play them (if they are available)!

I've decided to go with a company that cares about the fact that their customers have tons of older games that they want to play on the new system.

Goodbye Nintendo -- Hello Sony!

joltaddict

No console was backwards compatible until they used optical drives. Thats hardly refusing. Im sure all three will be backwards compatible next gen.

Welcome to 1995!

Trigger

That's not true. Plenty of pre-optical media consoles offered backward compatability... Atari 5200 offered a VCS adapter to play 2600 games (this came a little late to save the 5200, but still)... there have been others as well.

I personally don't think Nintendo would ever make a system backward compatible... I guess I'll believe it when I see it, but it doesn't fit their M.O. (IMO)

Kellehair

You can play 10 year old Gameboy games on the GBA.

Trigger

good point - their handhelds have followed different rules - I think this is something that contributed to their success.

Ralph Wiggum

Did some Nintendo rep put a gun to your head and make you sell your old console/games then re-purchase them?

Sloth911

the atari 2800 was entirely compaitalbe (No adaptors or nayhting else) with the atari 7800 (7600?)

It was GREAT, since my 2600 was acting up, i picked up a 7800, could play new/old games.

Is there an adaptor to play nes games on the snes? Something like that would have sold like shovels in a snowstorm considering how the NES stopped working well for most users.

Josh H

Well that was a new introduction this generation, as the GBA was the first true successor to the GB.

With the GC it was impossible to make it backwards compatible since the previous Nintendo systems where cartridge based.

It's pretty likely that the GC's successor will be backwards compatible. The only way it won't be is if they ditch the proprietary format. But I don't see that happening as it's a great way for them to make money by nearly eliminating piracy and charging third parties licensing fees.

darkside

I hope you are right and the fact Sony and Microsoft are doing it next generation (rumored anyway) might push them to do it as well. Still, I will believe it when Nintendo officially says their doing it.

rich-y

This is one of the most asinine statements I have ever read!

Of course they didn't hold a gun to my head...

But Nintendo holds the key to deciding whether or not their new platform will play the games I've already paid for. The only other alternative is to keep 4 different Nintendo platforms units hooked up to my TV at all times.

rich-y

Looks like others beat me to the comment that there were indeed backwards compatible cartridge systems.

Also, don't forget that the ColecoVision system from the early 80's had a special adapter that allowed you to play all cartridges by Atari and Intellivision!! I don't think we'll ever see that kind of thing happen again, but it would be great if it did!

joltaddict

Thats OK theres plenty of room. Anybody else wanna pile on?

I actually still have a 7800 too.

spainlinx0

Nintendo did release an adaptor allowing you to play your NES games on your SNES.

And don't forget as mentioned the original Gameboy, which turned into the Gameboy Color and finally now the Gameboy Advance.

I think this is a foolish reason not to own a platform but to each his own. So what are you going to do if Sony or Microsoft don't make their next systems backwards compatible?

darkside

I remember the Sega one on the Genesis, but I can't remember Nintendo releasing a NES adaptor. Not saying it wasn't made, but I just can't remember it. It was official from Nintendo?

Tamrok

Why take risks? Why invest money? Because that's how you innovate. I'm sure Nintendo could cut to the bone and focus solely on GBA and Pokemon and make a lot of money in the short term. However, without innovation and investment in the future, they would eventually fade away. Nintendo is unquestionably a conservative company. The question is whether they have the ability to adapt to a changing industry. We'll see...

Josh H

The point is that they bring in record profits year after year (due mainly to the GBA and their awesome first party games) so they don't necessarily need to adapt. They can probably survive (and continue to rake in record profits annually) by just doing what they've been doing.

But this is still a non-issue as Nintendo has shown willingness to adapt. They've gone after mature third party games. Of course they still have "kiddy" games. They always will. They have a strangle hold on that market, it would be stupid to alienate it. They'll keep their "kiddy" first party games to keep that market and continue to get mature games from second and third parties.

They're also showing willingness to adapt by planning on launching the GC successor in 2005, breaking from the traditional 5 year life span of a console.

At any rate, barring huge business mishaps (i.e. something worse than sticking with cartridges for the N64) Nintendo isn't going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

darkside

It should be noted that for them to take the financial risks Microsoft is with their costly hardware and huge online investments is impossible. Nintendo can't spend that kind of money to set up a big online network. Even Sony couldn't do it and they have a lot more money than Nintendo.

If online gaming turns into the biggest thing in console gaming then Microsoft has already won. I just don't see Nintendo spending a billion dollars to set that kind of thing up. I'm sure they will have to do things the way Sony is with servers for first party titles and letting everyone else set up their own.

Josh H

And they definitely don't have the money to do it when it is uncertain whether it will take off in the mainstream and almost certain that it won't be anywhere near profitable this generation and maybe not even next generation.

spainlinx0

I am pretty certain that adaptor was Nintendo licensed. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure it was the case.

Sloth911

Can anyone verify that one of these nes -> snes convertors existed?

If there such a thing, i would think allot of people would have bought it, perhaps it was only a picture in a magazine about what nintendo was going to do in the future?

I am going on a limb here, but if they were made and existed I am almost certain i could find one for sale on eBay, and well, i cant.

I tried searching for "nes snes conv*" and "nes snes adap*" and saw no such product.

MrPink

check out this http://www.buyritegames.com/product_...1059&last=1011
i have seen them cheaper but it is not first party