jeffdsmith

Jasonr, I don't have the time to reply line by line of your post, but much of what you state is incorrect. I have no doubt that MS has done a ton to push videogame hardware, but what about software? The xbox has lots of things going for it, but little unique software that is groundbreaking.

I'm waiting for developers to start utilize what the xbox has to offer. When is a game going to rely on 5.1 sound? Where are the revolutionary games that utilize the harddrive other then saving? The xbox has pretty hardware, but without software to utilize the system for something other then pretty graphics and sound it's going to continue to drag it's feet.

Sloth911

jeff- i agree that utlilization for the HDD other then gaming saving is currently limited. you do have the soundtrack creation with mp3's though.

However, combine the HDD with the Live access and what do you get? Downloadable content!

If you ask me, that is a HUGE leap from what nintenodo and sony have been offering. However, as noted by others, allot of the xBox features are on PAR with what PC games have come to expect.

I think part of your "waiting" revolves around the fact that most companies are designing games that can be utilised by all 3 current systems.

even though GR and SC are currently exclusive to the xBox, the will be ported to the PS2 --- so the programmers had to work within the context of both systems.

zig

I agree, the few new things MS has brought to the console world have not been properly utilized yet. Until they are, they're worthless. Nintendo has brought plenty, and the things they brought actually made a difference in the way games were created and played. The D-pad, the analog stick, the analog triggers, all things Nintendo introduced to consoles that actually made a difference in the way games are played. They also introduced vibrating controllers, though that's more of an extra thing that most games still don't utilize in creative ways.

Xbox Live is one thing MS has brought to the table that's worth mentioning. It's not something new, Sega was trying to do similar things, they just couldn't afford it. But MS can afford it, so I guess them entering the console market was good for people that want to play online. I don't really view the MP3 soundtrack thing as a big deal.. I could listen to my own music while playing games long before the xbox Like it has been said, the hard drive hasn't been used to do anything new or interesting. Ditto with 5.1 sound.
Now.. I'm not saying those things are worthless or you shouldn't be happy they're there.. but I think it's more important for Nintendo and Sony to be making money in the console market than everyone having all the features the xbox has. If they were losing as much as MS is, they'd probably be dead by now, or pulling out of the hardware business. And less competition is always bad. I'd hate to see a day where you have to have 60 billion dollars(or some other ridiculous amount) in the bank to get into the console hardware market and have a hope of surviving.

Sloth911

i again agree that not all the features are being utilized, but saying they're worthless is a strong statement.

first you invent the wheel. then you find ways to use it.

Just out of curiosity how is the D-pad different then then a PSX controller, or any directional pad any other controller? nintendo jsut added a second one, and removed the center part!

Tamrok

I believe what Bungie was referring to was the fact that at the E3 prior to the Xbox Launch, the only level built was "The Silent Cartographer". In other words, only one of the ten levels (10%) that made it into the game was designed or built by May of 2001. Obviously, a lot of work had been done on the physics and graphics engines but most of the game content wasn't built until the last few months. So, there is very good reason to believe that Halo 2 will be a huge improvement considering Bungie has two years of development time and is not starting from scratch this time...

jeffdsmith

I'm sure it will be much better. I have no doubt.

tanman

MS definately has the most groundbreaking innovations. the hard drive being the main one. It is too bad it is not utilized.

Nintendo has the upper hand in knowing what will actually be used in gaming and coming out with that. (by the way the Dreamcast had analog shoulder buttons before the Gamecube)

Sony has come out with almost nothing. Dual Shock I'll give them that. One of the only reasons why they are on top is because of good business and perfect timing. Not that that is a bad thing, they are still number one but they are not very innovative.

gcribbs

I think that backwards compatibility with the PS1 was very smart. It meant that those who owned PS1 games and wanted to keep them could sell their old PS1 and make the PS2 that much cheaper to buy.

Adding dvd playback was smart also. It added an inexpensive feature to a game console that made families more likely to pay money for upgrading to the PS2 from the PS1- a free dvd player.

I do think that MS did some smart things by looking at the PC market they knew and making a fixed feature PC that potentially had all the advantages of a PC(minus one) and made it into a console.

This enabled them to use a Hard drive which all pc's have but no consoles had to potentially add features to games.

They also added builtin network support which again most pc's have but consoles did not till then.

MS did a good job using the PC model and taking it's advantages into the console world.

The one thing they could not bring over from the PC since it is not compatible with the console market is of course the pc ability to be upgraded.

Now I do think that the XBox2 will be backwards compatible with XBox1 games just like the PS3 will be with at least PS2 games.

Spiderbite

I think backwards compatibility is great but it is hardly innovative. Heck, my Atari 7800 was backwards compatible.

Lastblade

My toilet is also 'backwards' compatible.

KingSmoth

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. This is by far the funniest post I've ever read on this forum. It comes in second to one on another forum, where some guy said Nintendo is going to make a comeback this generation and rule all, even surpassing the PS2. roofle

Captain Harlock

Going back a bit.....

GTA San Andreas probably means Los Angelos. Possibley even San Francisco. The San Andreas Fault is the geological point near Los Angelos, California that causes most of the earthquakes out there. Makes the most sense anyway.

Sloth911

Backwards compaitable is not that inovative, i agree.

BUT it is a good reason for PS1 owners to goto PS2 and PS2 users to goto PSnext.

HOWEVER

as noted atari did the same thing, and nintendo still dominated the video game market with a new system w/ not backwards compatibel games.

jabbas

The info I had on Halo's development came from things I read on Bungie's web site and from the EGM issue several months ago with a Halo 2 preview.

As far as why my comments about Halo were so comical to KingSmoth, I'm not sure. I've been playing video games for over 15 years now, and never once have I come across a game so appealing to so many people that it justified the purchase of an entire video game system. This game has appealed to people who play video games religiously as well as those who've not thought about playing a video game since they owned a NES back in 1986. Halo was the only XBox game I owned for the first year I had the system (partly due to a huge backlog of unfinished PS2 games), but in that year I played more Halo- even after completing it on all difficulty levels- than I did all the other PS2 games combined. In 15 years of video gaming I've never enjoyed a game more, hence my excitement about the promise of what Halo 2 has to offer.

Lastblade

I disagree (and this is coming from a guy who just bought an xbox last friday). I think Super Mario Bros for NES was a better system seller than Halo. Do I like Halo? Hell yes, I love it. But in terms of selling a system, SMB was king.

jabbas

I concede, excellent point. Thinking back on it, personally I was content just mooching NES playing time off friends until Zelda came out. Then I had to have one. The ability to SAVE a game on the cartridge, bypassing the inevitable error-prone entering of numbers/symbols/CAPS (I'm talking to you Metroid) was about the coolest thing in the world. If it weren't for my birthday being in November and my parents getting me a NES, I may have never have been pulled out of the depression I was in following the Red Sox 1986 postseason.

Lastblade

LoL, you sox fan too? Well, at least in 86, the Celtics won it all (not too bad a year for boston sports team that year other than Bill Buckner spreading his legs alittle too much)....

jabbas

Born and raised in Brookline, practically in the shadow of Fenway.

That was the year: All 4 major sports teams in their respective Finals. Sadly only 1 came through with the trophy, but seeing how that was the greatest basketball team ever put on the floor in the history of the game, I'll take it.

The Franchise

I have three points:

One HUGE innovation from Sony that seems to have been missed here is distributed computing. Most serious programmers agree that distributed computing is the wave of the future and will be realized more fully with PS3. PS2 is a good primer into this by having it's vector units and graphic synthesizer chips. Granted there is a huge learning curve associated with this paradigm shift in programming, most in the tech industry (where I work) will tell you that this is where it's at. In a decade or so when there is a good nationwide or worldwide internet infrastructure, then true distributed computing will be realized, with multiple consoles working in unison. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but increasing CPU clock speeds can only take you so far. There are some great technical articles about this on the web if you poke around, but they should only be read if you have a E.E. or C.S. degree.

Also I would argue that innovation is in the hands of the developers. Regardless of what the big three put on their consoles, it's up to the software houses to use that hardware. MS was touting Blinx as the first game that could not be done on any other console... and we all know how that turned out. The harddrive has been mostly used as a replacement memory card till now. XBOX Live should change that, but we'll see how innovative the games that come out for it are. With the PS2, I'd argue that they went nuts with expansion slots (2 USB ports and a firewire port) that nobody uses. This is a shame because so much could be done using these ports. Games like Steel Batallion are a step in right direction but perhaps a tad overkill for the average gamer. Still very cool in terms of innovation.

Finally this Halo vs. GTA thing is a little crazy. No knock against Halo, but GTA3 dwarfed it in terms of sales. Granted there are a lot more PS2s in people's living rooms, but arguing over facts is a little redundant. 7 million units sold at $50 a pop. Do the math. It ranks up there with the top 5 movies of all time. I'm not saying one game is better than the other, but as they say: "the public has spoken".

Tamrok

I agree that distibuted computing may be the next big thing but one thing to keep in mind is that the PS3 is due to launch in less than 3 years. Given that, I would be surprised if the PS3 makes any serious use of distributed computing. I really don't see my toaster being ready to chip in on the processing duties for GTA5 by then.



Apples and oranges. You can't build a valid argument based on sales data for two games published on different platforms with vastly different install bases and somehow equate that with quality. GTA has an inherent advantage because it has a much greater userbase to draw from. If both games were PS2 titles, then you'd have an argument.

Sloth911

you said it yourself

"Granted there are a lot more PS2s in people's living rooms"

it is kinda a funny, allot of people around here bash "joe six pack" for perferring pan/scan vs widescreen/letterbox, buying cheap dvd players, and everything else joe six pack does.

but, as soon as joe six pack does something "good", like buy 7 million GTA.... people are all over it.

yes, joe six pack is the success behind GTA, not to say non-joe six pack didnt buy it, but the reason it hit 7 million was becuase of good ol' joe

joltaddict

You lost all credibility with me. Youll never be able to redeem yourself either.

Shag

MS has already stated that they will not be beaten to market by PS3. We'll see if that actually happens, but I hope it does - would be interesting to see how things panned out on a more even playing field. I still doubt MS will be able to trump the PS3, simply due to Sony's established foothold in the market, but I think it would be a lot closer than it is right now...

darkside

I think this was the biggest innovation and will probably be the standard for all future consoles.


Its actually wma files, but I get you. This is another feature I really liked about the Xbox. It was cool skating in TH4 with different music

Misleading. You still have to pay $50 for the Xbox Live access. With the PS2 you only have to pay $40 for the adaptor and play online for free. In the future you may have to pay to play some PS2 games, but the cost of Xbox Live may increase as well.

Its just as easy to get online and play Dreamcast or PS2 games. I think limiting it to only broadband users was a huge mistake at this time.



I noticed very few games that actually had good DD 5.1 surround mixes. The Pro Logic 2 mixes on many Game Cube games sound better than the average Xbox game. I will agree that the technology is there, but more developers need to take advantage of it.



Nintendo gave me the ultimate wireless controller. No cord to trip over and I can play from across the building.

The point I'm making is all these innvations really depend on perspective. The Xbox hard drive and DD 5.1 are the biggest innovations, but neither is going to make a mediocre game good. Microsoft needs to worry less about their hardware next time around and focus on software. Other than Halo their exclusives have really lagged behind the competition. I think Panzer Dragoon Orta and hopefully stuff from Rare can change that next year, but I think it is a problem on the Xbox and something they really need to be focused on if they want to beat Sony next time out.

vaporware

I own both a PS2 and an X-box. I just recently got the X-box and, at least to me, there seems to be a lot more potential with that platform than the PS2. If X-box has 10 years to fully develope and tweak their system as Sony has it could someday be considered the best platform.

Either way, I think X-box is good for the gaming industry overall. All of the competition will strive to do better and the gaming experience will be better for all gamers.