jeffdsmith

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Peter MacDougall of Nintendo recently had this to say:
On online games:

Gallant Pig

I can't believe they are balking at online play. I promise you once XBL is a hit, and people flock to PS2 online games, they'll flip flop.

Shiggy doesn't need to come up with some fancy online game, just give us online modes for competitive games like Super Smash Bros. Melee and that Jet Ski Game or 1080. Mario and Zelda are fine offline, but some games are screaming to go online and with voice communication. Mario Party 4 for example.

Oh yeah, I'm glad to hear they are saying there will be another Nintendo console, that's good news. By that time, with the right technology, engineers, and programmers, maybe they'll bump the memory card up another 500kb

gcribbs

what happens if both are only slightly successful and if neither brings a continuing source of new revenue?


I expect that XBL will lose a ton of money and Sony will lose some on online ventures since in my opinion the majority of players will not pay money every month or even every year to play online games.

The pay to play services are a small niche of gamers and right now pc gamers.

I think that Nintendo may turn out to right this generation.

draggoon01

but what if nintendo is wrong. xbox live catches on and developers could make shorter games with only a few levels/characters/maps/etc, and sell for like $20-30. then if it was successful, they make more content for the game and make money on the backend. could change the whole way video games are done, and really start to sink gamecube because of the way they're sitting on the sidelines with regard to online gaming.

if xbox-live is the success i think it can be, then nintendo console business will either go out, or shrink even more as sony and msft squeeze them out. then the next generation will be a competition between sony and msft, where the company with the extra idea behind their system wins (just as psx was successful, mostly due to having a cd-rom).

then nintendo will have some new slogan trying to justify themselves. why buy n64 cartridges? because quality games don't need 650megs of a cd-rom. why buy gamecube? the nintendo difference (luigi tech demo turned short game; super secrets in mario sunshine so sercret they can't be revealed because others might steal; the zelda preview people cheer for 1 year will be bait and switched for a zelda people shake their heads at; the few mature games they throw out that make them now adult-orientated, although it takes them years to admit they are kid-orientated in the first place). why buy gamecube2 when xbox2 and ps3 are on-line and have been with established on-line games? i'm waiting to hear that one.

companies who are on top but stop innovating die out. and unfortunate for nintendo's interests & philosophy, attempts at innovation cost money. but nintendo would rather wait and watch, then jump in when it's successful. they're attitude of putting short term profits first has cost them (sticking with cartridges for n64 just because they own the cartridge manufacturing plants) and i venture to say their sit and wait attitude for on-line this generation will cost them again (as well as having also having the drought of games n64 did, with releases few and far between for profits sake) of course they're in business to make money, but doing it that way is just being greedy; which i feel will cost them--more than it already has.

what should be basically nintendo's market will be lost. sony and msft will muscle them out. nintendo will go third party after next generation, then proclaim they were a handheld company all along. but of course, sony and msft will be waiting in the wings for the right moment to squeeze nintendo out of that market as well. game over.

draggoon01

argh, the more i think about it the more it bugs me. it shouldn't have happened this way, but nintendo just wants to do things their way. i doubt one of their franchises will ever be a runaway hit again. yes they'll sell well, but not like they once did. great sellers have come for games like final fantasy and grand theft auto. shoot, i wonder if mario sunshine will even outsell halo. mario shows this. metroid comes out in 2 weeks, and zelda in 2 months (because heaven forbid 2 great titles come out soon before x-mas, and the consumer chooses only 1). if those titles sell well but not great as mario sunshine did, then nintendo will surely be set on a downhill motion.

really, remember nes days? they came out with that robot, light gun (alley game was really fun), track mat, power glove. they were trying then. snes had great games starting with mario world, and donkey seemed to breathe new life into it. then mario64 came out which blew me away. but then every n64 game after that felt like i was playing mario64 with different characters and themes, but same engine. now they're living off franchise names that have lost their luster. i think the newest thing they did with gamecube was pikmin.

although i hate watching this happen, nintendo almost deserves it, childhood memories or not.

Ralph Wiggum

But the internet people said "teh Nintendo is d00m3d!!111!!" and going third party after this generation?

I wish Nintendo would take some real chances. Some of their hardware ideas are neat and all, but this wait and see attitude about actual advances is irritating. There is no reason why games like AC should be without online capabilities IMO and it irritates me that they ignore consumer demand for services like this.

Probably why they are trailing the Xbox in the US right now.

tanman

would you like to predict the coming of the antichrist while you're at it?

seriously though, i realize that you are just stating your opinions and predictions and many of your accusations are true, i.e. last gen. with the mario clones and sticking with cartridge media, however many are just unfounded exagerated or just plain wrong:
Luigi, while short, was still a good game.

What's wrong with keeping Mario under wraps? It's arrived a lot sooner than people thought it would and is another quality game?

People are indeed shaking their heads yes to the new Zelda game. I would not really consider it "bait and switch" if the CREATOR of the series decided to take it to a different route after a YEAR of development.

They have never admitted that they are kid-oriented. Although I enjoy a lot of mature games, sometimes i feel like I am the only one that can still enjoy games that are "kid-oriented".

As for online: do people not realize that you cannot just throw up an online service without some kind of heafty investment to begin with? Sony and Microsoft already enjoy both the deap pockets and the experience from other ventures the two have done. Nintendo is strictly a gaming company with no experience in creating servers and not as much money to gamble with. It is just good business sense to sit back and see if it is profitable to jump into the online arena.

Sony also is able to take a more hands off approach online since they are allowing their third parties to maintain the servers. Nintendo must have a hands on approach since their first party games are what is keeping them going. I agree that many games are screaming to go online. I hope the rumors of Mario Kart online are true

"Nintendo deserves it" deserves what? the billions of dollars they make? damn it I want to deserve it as well.

As for new consoles it is good news but still depressing that once again there will be another race for your dollar. Instead of worrying who has what when how I would rather just play quality games.

Groucho

I agree. Goldeneye was just Mario 64 but with James Bond.

Kellehair

jeffdsmith

Let me begin by saying that posted the info because I was tired of hearing so many stupid rumors of Nintendo going the way of Sega. I included the online tidbit to clear the air on Nintendo's perception of online games since most people have a misunderstanding. Apparently the info is not helping very much.

Respose to draggoon01:

So sort of like DIVX? In that can buy the product cheaper and determine how much of the product you want after trying it? (Note: DIVX failed) What happens to all these online content games after a year or two when people arn't playing anymore? Is the content still available? What happens when people learn to share (pirate) the content on IRC? How are games reviewed effectivley if there is only 3 levels available when purchased? What happens to the used game market?

MS is hoping you are right, that xbox live will push them out of third place. I agree to that. I don't see your point with the PSX, what the hell happened to Saturn, it had CD's! Why did the cart carts of the N64 win over the power of the Saturns mystical storage medium?

Once online play is established and profitable Nintendo will be there offering up some of the best titles. Most of the titles will be multi-console. Sony and MS only own so many rights ot titles and companies. I can guarantee you this. If Sony and MS can't make online games profitable, do you think they are going to continue to piss their money away? If the can, Nintendo will be there.

You are right. Nintendo is playing wait and see. However it's not like they havn't investigated and done research. Keep in mind, Nintendo was serving up online play on the original Famcom (NES) in Japan. If Nintendo doesn't do online games, they might have a reason. Like the fact that most online games are not profitable. I have no doubt they will be t some point, but I don't think it's going to be for another few years at least. If you believe that Nintendo is not inovative, I question your thought process.

People have been making similar claims against Gamecube since day 1 saying the Xbox was going to wipe the floor or that PS2 would make the GC unsellable. Why is the Xbox behind in sales by 2.6 million units? And despite Sony's hardware dominance the GC is still bought and enjoyed?

I propose to you that you consider this: There is more to games then online.

Josh H

Great, hopefully this will stop all the "nintendo is going third party" crap that's been all over the net.

As for online games, I could care less about them, and Nintendo's strategy is fine with me.

I think it's better to play it safe. I don't think online gaming is going to be profitable this generation, and Nintendo doesn't have billions to throw away like MS does. Let the other companies do it, and when it becomes profitable (i.e a significant number of casual gamers using it) they can join in, be it by putting out some killer online GC games like Mario Kart this generation, or waiting a generation or two down the line depending on when (and if) online gaming catches on.

DamingR

What year is the next generation of systems expected to come out? Any rumors about the PS3's launch date?

Josh H

PS3 and X-box 2 are slated for 2005.

The new Nintendo console will likely hit in 2006 as they aren't likely to follow MS's lead and break the tradition of 5 years in between consoles (the GC and X-box came out in fall 2001).

Groucho

From what I've seen, PS3 and Xbox2 are going to launch in late 2005, with Gamecube2 coming a year or two after that. This is mostly speculation based on various statements the companies have made...nothing's set in stone.

Zodo

I, too, could care less about online games. They don't interest me one bit.

Nintendo's strategy seems fine with me. Who knows whether online really is the way of the future, or just a small little niche.

We shall see...

Gallant Pig

If you *could* care less, then why don't you care less? Some inner part says "I wanna play!!!".

Seriously though, if you've ever played SOCOM online you know how rich the voice online gaming experience can be, and it has you wanting more. As long as it's organized, it can be a real blast.

Trigger

From TheCLQ.com (a site that tracks multiplayer statistics for several online PC games...)

602,343 Servers
9,814,101 Players
755,733 Clans
78,007,924,312 Minutes

Doesn't sound like a niche to me.

Michael Corvin

You know why online gaming is just a niche for hardcore gamers? $$. I love playing Halo online right now. Would I pay for it? No, my broadband already costs me $50 a month, not to mention the $50 for the game. We all don't have the pocketbooks of Mr. Gates.

I don't think Live will be as successful as everyone seems to think. To the hardcore gamers that are picking it up on release day yes, but what is going to sell it every day after that? Halo would, but alas it isn't going that route. Just like MS could easily trample N by packing in Halo for Christmas, but alas JSRF is a better bet. I would by LIVE if I could play Halo on it. So until that happens I'm not wasting my money.

And what about after your year of LIVE is up? Do you think MS will be able to maintain their number of online players once a fee based system is set up? Not likely. The only way to do that is to offer game upgrades, like the rumored Halo 1.5 or whatever it was. I would pay $10 for some more levels, characters, weapons, etc. But do you think a game company is going to focus its extra time and money on a product they will only get a little money for? The only way I see this happening is designing the extra stuff at the time of development and locking it out for a later date.

But I do have to say, Mario Kart online would be cool. But I be ramblin'. done.

Groucho

I really don't understand Nintendo's reluctance to taking the Cube online. Pokémon begs to be an online franchise.

Josh H

Here's some more tidbits from the ign.cube article:

http://cube.ign.com/articles/376/376063p1.html

-45% of gamers are under the age of 18
-GBA fastest selling videogame system in U.S. ever
-Online gaming is "thrilling," to players but "chilling" from a business standpoint
-Reconnected with Square -- "You will soon see exclusive Final Fantasy games again playing on Nintendo systems," says MacDougall.
-Nintendo focused on creating major partnerships (i.e. Sega, Namco, Capcom)
-"Significant change for us: the aggressive targeting of the teen and 20-something market."
-Metroid Prime backed with " with our largest, game-specific budget in over three years."
-One-minute Metroid Prime ad will begin running in theatres and homes on TV November 1st
-1080: Avalanche and Zelda still on track for early next year
-Nintendo will show medley game trailers in theatres to whet moviegoers appetites for next year's games
-GameCube hardware will see successor: " Nintendo is most certainly in the home console business -- to stay."

Josh H

But of course those are numbers for online PC gaming. It remains to be seen if it will catch on for consoles.

For one, a lot of PC gamers don't play consoles, and vice versa. Evidence of this, most magazines are either PC gaming only or console gaming only.

Secondly, PC online gaming is more convenient. The broadband or phoneline is right there already for surfing the net, no extra wires, routers etc. needed.

And there's likely other factors affecting this as well.

I'm not saying it won't catch on for consoles, just that the "success" of online PC gaming doesn't necessarily prove that it will be a success on the consoles. Only time will tell.

Josh H

It costs a lot of money to set up an online network, and it's yet to be proven that online gaming will even make that money back. Unlike MS, Nintendo can't afford to take a chance at losing billions.

So for now, they'll just let companies like Sega with PSO, set up their own networks for their games, and wait and see how X-box live fairs. If it proves to be profitable, they can start their own online network, if it doesn't, they probably saved themselves billions by not starting theirs now.

Trigger

I never said it proved or disproved anything - I'm just pointing out that it's not a niche. I wasn't even talking to you.

"a lot of PC gamers don't play consoles, and vice versa. Evidence of this, most magazines are either PC gaming only or console gaming only"

Well, aside from PSM, OXM, Nintendo Power, and the little unofficial mags for each system, there's EGM, IGN, Gamespot, Game Informer, and a bunch of other magazines that cover all platforms. For PC gaming, there's a couple of magazines too of course. It's like this for everything - there's magazines for everything. There's about 5 different magazines that cover laptops only. There's magazines for pets and magazines for dogs and magazines for cats... this doesn't mean that most cat owners don't own a dog. This all means nothing.

I'm not saying you're wrong (or right) about PC gamers not playing consoles and vice versa, I'm just saying your 'evidence' doesn't really support such a conclusion. I would have agreed with your statement too a couple of years ago - but since the Xbox came out, lots of PC gamers have migrated over to console gaming - my evidence for this is the shrinking profits of PC games combined with the explosive profits for consoles.

Josh H

The x-box is definitely drawing in PC gamers, that's why X-box live is the best barometer for the success of online gaming.

The point of the magazine example is that they're are some cross-console magazines like EGM, Gamepro, etc. that cover all the consoles, but to my knowledge, they're isn't a major one that covers consoles and PCs. If there was a large overlap between PC gamers and Console gamers there would likely be a few magazines covering both topics as many people like to get all their info in one magazine. Who wants to pay several $20 subscription fees for each platform, when they can pay one and get all the info in one magazine?

Another possible explanation is a difference in the genre's that are most popular, and either exclusive or superior, on each platform.

On the PC it's primarily FPSs, RTSs, MMORPGs and American style RPGs, which are more common and generally better than their console counterparts.

On the consoles, it's platformers, japanese RPGs, fighters, etc. that are more common and generally better than their PC counterpats.

And of course there's genre's like racing and sports where there are good offerings on both platforms.

So basically, it's pretty clear that each platform really appeals to a certain type of gamer.

But as you said, the X-box is more like the PC in it's game offering than any other console (while still having a lot of good traditional console games) so it can potentially change this makeup.

al_bundy

Ever hear of Evercrack, Ultima Online, Battlefield 1942 or Dark Age of Camelot? They are all online success stories with pay per month plans.